Home 3D printers? Best of the budget ones...?

[MGR Hooper!]

Simple question....which home 3D printer is the best? I have a 600 quid budget (if that's enough?)

[AdamsRadial]

You'll just about get an Omerod 2 for that, or you'll get one of the Prusa variants flooding out of China. Bear in mind that these are not going to be very precise without your spending a lot of time tinkering with things like belt tensions, extruder settings, bed temperatures. For that money you could buy a lot of stuff from the Shapeways shop ...

[rue_d_etropal]

I agree with AdamsRadial. Unless you add at least another zero to that figure, you are going to be in similar world as using using a fax printer to do art prints. By the time there are cheap 3D printers that are as good as what professionals use now, there will probably be high street printing shops. Better to concentrate on the design side and let someone else do the hard work and maintenance.

I know some are critical of Shapeways, but using them as part of a business plan, makes good sense. It costs you nothing except your time, and any prints you actually want doing yourself(a good idea when you are starting out). There are other companies, but suspect many of them will find out same things as Shapeways and have to modify pricing structure. Shapeways will always be one step ahead. At the moment for small items turn around time can be less than a week at normal prices. I frustratingly have one larger item in batch and that machine obviously takes longer, and the other items are sitting there ready to be boxed up.

Edited February 22, 2016 by rue_d_etropal

[eldavo]

It all depends what you are intending to print. You can do a lot with a budget printer if you know what you are doing and your budget is more than enough for a RepRap based design. I have a BQ Hephestos Prusa i3 and have used it to print lineside structures, wagons, and bits of locos in 4mm and 7mm. Does it magically print whole locos? No. Can you do useful stuff with it? Most certainly.

 

What are your aims?

 

Cheers

Dave

[Dava]

The best 3D printer is one owned by someone else? Pay as you go seems to make more sense

 

Dava

[AdamsRadial]

Just in case I gave the wrong impression, I *do* have a low-cost Prusa variant, but as I've said, I spend a lot of time tinkering with it to try and get the results I want. As it happens, I do love to tinker, and I'm not in a rush to get things made just yet. What I don't yet know is if a budget 3D printer to do rough prints of a 3D model followed by getting Shapeways to do the proper items is the way to go, because the cheap printers won't be able to do some of the tricks the expensive ones can, and the tweaks you make to the model to try and make it come out passably on the cheap printer might work against you on the high-quality ones. But if you like to play, you'll get an aluminium-framed Chinese Prusa for two-thirds of your budget, and have plenty left over for the reels of filament and some spares. (Belts in particular can take a hammering, and some of the aluminium pulleys can work loose on the steppers and become so sloppy they too need replacing.)

[MGR Hooper!]

Thanks guys... I think I shall stay with Shapeways

[AndyID]

Depends on a lot of things, but there are a lot of advantages to having a printer. These were printed on a Prusa - currently available in the US for 269 dollars.

 

[MGR Hooper!]

Depends on a lot of things, but there are a lot of advantages to having a printer. These were printed on a Prusa - currently available in the US for 269 dollars.

 

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That looks amazing...But for now after all careful thinking and all that I've realized that Shapeways would be easier, cheaper and better in many respects.

[AndyID]

That looks amazing...But for now after all careful thinking and all that I've realized that Shapeways would be easier, cheaper and better in many respects.

 

It's certainly a good way to go, and you could always get your own printer later on if you want to. Whether you print on your own printer, or use a service like Shapeways, the biggest obstacle might be the method you use to create 3D models on your computer. But that won't be a problem if you already have experience in that area.

[MGR Hooper!]

It's certainly a good way to go, and you could always get your own printer later on if you want to. Whether you print on your own printer, or use a service like Shapeways, the biggest obstacle might be the method you use to create 3D models on your computer. But that won't be a problem if you already have experience in that area.

I'm fine with 3D designing.

[rue_d_etropal]

Two things to be aware of, especially for anyone thinking about 3D designing for first time.

Firstly it is incredibly addictive. you might intend only to design a few items but you always think of something else to design. ( I only wanted a WW1 narrow gauge protected Simplex , but ended up with a complete transport division!) .

Secondly what ever scale you design any models in, someone will always ask for it in another scale, so build that into design. Using software that makes that easy is important.

 

On the plus side though, once something is designed to your satisfaction, it can be stored away, and if people want it it is available on your Shapeways(or other preferred company) e-shop.

[Knuckles]

Any opinions on the CEL Robox?

 

I have researched it pretty extensively and it seems a good one on the whole. Can print to 20 microns too.

 

I also have my eye on the Raise3D N1 or N2 that can print to 10 microns.

 

I know microns are not the only factor in ensuring a smooth print but they are still important. For comparison Shapeways FUD is 29 and FXD is 16 microns.

 

Looking forward to getting a printer either way.

Edited July 2, 2016 by Knuckles

[Rabs]

There's microns and then there's microns.  The number CEl give doesn't have anything to do with the numbers given by shapeways for FUD and FXD.  On an extrusion printer (like the CEL) their 'resolution' means how precisely can they position the nozzle.  However, the material is still coming out of a ~0.5mm hole (500 microns).  When it's flattened into a layer this means the smallest 'dot' it can print is about 700 microns.  That is the smallest feature you can print.  'Resolution' on FUD and FXD refers to the minimum feature size that the light source that can actually produce in the material.  It's not as good as they claim (more like 100 microns), but still far, far better than can be achieved on an extrusion printer.

Edited July 21, 2016 by Rabs

[brack]

Also when micron resolution is quoted its normally the most favourable of the 3 axes (in fud and FD, x and y resolution is slightly different to z, can't remember which is better, but it has an input, together with support material distribution into why you get the odd print that's not quite as good - they've chosen the wrong orientation).

[Knuckles]

Ok fair points. The Robox has a 0.3mm nozzle though so it would be finer than you said I would have thought.

 

Have you seen the pics of the Raise3D's print quality though? That keyring helmet head thing looks good. Best I have seen for FFD.

[Kelly]

Another option to consider is if there is a local hackerspace to you. They often co-operatively buy things like laser cutters and 3d printers and for a monthly fee you get access to their workshop space.

[AndyID]

Ok fair points. The Robox has a 0.3mm nozzle though so it would be finer than you said I would have thought.

 

 

You can usually swap nozzles. The smallest I have used is 0.2mm which does allow smaller features. You tell the software what the nozzle diameter is and it adjusts the material flow rate accordingly. The snag is it takes longer to print a particular volume of extruded material, but you can compensate for that to some extent by making the printed item less dense.

[Knuckles]

I think loco shells would have to be full density though.

[Rabs]

Ok fair points. The Robox has a 0.3mm nozzle though so it would be finer than you said I would have thought.

 

Have you seen the pics of the Raise3D's print quality though? That keyring helmet head thing looks good. Best I have seen for FFD.

 

I hadn't seen that, no and I agree, that looks very good for FFD (or FDM/FFF/whatever new TLA they are using for extruder type printers).  The quality coming from consumer printers is getting rapidly better. 

[Knuckles]

Aye, after seeing your experiments with the B9 and the SpotHD (or HT can not remember) I was sold on the B9 for a while but the apparent faff, price tag and conversation at an exhabition with the guy who does Modelu has made me think it might not be a good choice for 1:76.2 loco's.

 

The Raise3D is really grabbing my eye, the wide variety of materials also seems a good future idea. Also the Robox has designs on converting to a laser cutter apparently.

 

At least save up time gives time for research and when the time may clme to get one new models may be out and existing ones may be a shade cheaper.

 

If I went for a Raise then single or duel extruder? Main reason for opinion requests is because after a lot of reading many prefer single surprisingly as it can be better quality.

 

 

EDIT: I meant FDM/FFF as you typed, my mistake.

Edited July 22, 2016 by Knuckles

[Rabs]

EDIT: I meant FDM/FFF as you typed, my mistake.

 

Haha, I didn't realise it was a mistake!  I just assumed it was a new one I hadn't heard before.  You could have stayed schtum and looked really knowledgeable.

[Al51]

Aye, after seeing your experiments with the B9 and the SpotHD (or HT can not remember) I was sold on the B9 for a while but the apparent faff, price tag and conversation at an exhabition with the guy who does Modelu has made me think it might not be a good choice for 1:76.2 loco's.

 

The Raise3D is really grabbing my eye, the wide variety of materials also seems a good future idea. Also the Robox has designs on converting to a laser cutter apparently.

 

At least save up time gives time for research and when the time may clme to get one new models may be out and existing ones may be a shade cheaper.

 

If I went for a Raise then single or duel extruder? Main reason for opinion requests is because after a lot of reading many prefer single surprisingly as it can be better quality.

 

 

EDIT: I meant FDM/FFF as you typed, my mistake.

 

 I have a Felix 3.1 dual extruder and personally I don't think that having dual extruders decreases the quality of the print. Both extruders have to be set at pretty near exactly the same height to get good results, so find out how easy easy it is to adjust them should you need to. 

 

 One thing with dual extruders is that there is a penalty for using both extruders on the same print. In order to stop the extruder that is not in use dripping onto the print, it's left to cool off by 40 degrees or so while the other extruder is being used, and has to be heated up again when you want to use it. This means the printer is waiting for the extruder to heat up every time the extruders change over, although it usually alternates which extruder is used first on each layer to minimise this. On longer prints this can add quite a bit of time.

 

Al

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Knuckles]

Ok thanks. It is one of those things I'm trying to get a collective over as opinions vary.

 

Getting a single would be cheaper but in the long run I don't know if it would be the best option or not.

 

Extra speed is good but quality is most important. Having dribbles doesn't sound good but it also seems it might not be that much quicker if things need go keep swapping. A really hard one to crack this.

[eldavo]

Dual extruder means you can use different support material. Big bonus if you can just wash away the supports. Makes objects that were otherwise impossible to print possible.

 

Cheers

Dave