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West Sands - BR (SR) Electrified south coast branch terminus - MISSING PHOTOS SLOWLY BEING RESTORED


Geep7
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You do realise that you are in danger of falling off of electrified territory as it existed at your date?

 

I could sell you an idea that I've toyed with before: a light railway was projected, to run from Berwick (Sussex), down the Cuckmere Valley, to near Cuckmere Haven, then up the hill on the east to serve a pumping station.

 

Imagine that Cuckmere Haven has 'taken off' as both a seaside resort, and a sort of 'overspill port', taking some shipping away from Newhaven, and perhaps acting as the destination for trip boats from Eastbourne Pier (they traditionally went to BEachy Head or Birling Gap and back).

 

You now have a single-track branch, serving a place that is fast-growing in the 1930s, causing the SR to electrify the line, and build a nice new station, as at Seaton (Devon).

 

And, your substation will still be 'in place'.

 

Kevin

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You do realise that you are in danger of falling off of electrified territory as it existed at your date?

 

I could sell you an idea that I've toyed with before: a light railway was projected, to run from Berwick (Sussex), down the Cuckmere Valley, to near Cuckmere Haven, then up the hill on the east to serve a pumping station.

 

Imagine that Cuckmere Haven has 'taken off' as both a seaside resort, and a sort of 'overspill port', taking some shipping away from Newhaven, and perhaps acting as the destination for trip boats from Eastbourne Pier (they traditionally went to BEachy Head or Birling Gap and back).

 

You now have a single-track branch, serving a place that is fast-growing in the 1930s, causing the SR to electrify the line, and build a nice new station, as at Seaton (Devon).

 

And, your substation will still be 'in place'.

 

Kevin

It's amazing how minds think alike, as I had thought of Cuckmere Harbour as a location for my Dad's new layout, along very similar lines to your idea. I did consider it as well for mine, but i've got a couple of TC sets, and i'm not sure that they got down to the East Sussex / Kent coast very often. Still a fantastic layout idea though.

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As regards electrification at Lee-on-the-Solent, I will admit it's a bit of a stretch, but, just suppose the Southern had electrified the Meon Valley line, and all the way through to Lee, to cater for traffic for the newly opened HMS Daedalus. I have a slightly more elaborate history in mind, but that's about the crux of it.

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So, changes are afoot with Blackhurst. It is remaining the same region and era, however it is most likely moving location slightly and having a change of name.

 

 

However, i'm not sure if I should rename this thread, or start a new one? Thoughts please?

I would suggest rename the thread, (XXXX formerly Blackhurst), so we can more easily follow the whole story,

 

cheers

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The Portsmouth line and the coastway were both among the early electrifications in the 1930s, so it's probably not stretching credibly beyond breaking point to have an extension of that in the Portsmouth area, provided the junction faces Portsmouth rather than Southampton. I could imagine it being served by electric trains from Portsmouth, Littlehampton and Brighton. There wouldn't be any reason for steam passenger trains in that scenario though.

 

I think electrification of the Meon valley would be a step too far personally.

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The Portsmouth line and the coastway were both among the early electrifications in the 1930s, so it's probably not stretching credibly beyond breaking point to have an extension of that in the Portsmouth area, provided the junction faces Portsmouth rather than Southampton. I could imagine it being served by electric trains from Portsmouth, Littlehampton and Brighton. There wouldn't be any reason for steam passenger trains in that scenario though.

I think electrification of the Meon valley would be a step too far personally.

From the Brighton and Pompey link, you would also get a facing connection to the London, Pompey direct line. A triangular junction would give you a non electrified connection to Southampton and an excuse for the TC.

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This is the very reason why I haven't renamed the thread yet.

 

Electrifying the Meon Valley, yeah, probably a stretch too far.

 

Where the line to Gosport joins the Portsmouth - Southampton line at Fareham there never was a triangle, and the line joined facing the Southampton direction unfortunately. But I guess not beyond the realms of possibility.

 

The other thought, was to have the branch coming off at Chichester, essentially replacing the Selsey tramway, and being extended towards West/East Whittering. I even have a name "Cakeham Green" (it is a tiny hamlet between East and West Whittering), however before I could do this change, I noticed someone else on RMweb had much the same idea.

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You could always commit a sacrilege, by strengthening Langston bridge, electrifying the Hayling Branch, and rebuilding the station.

 

It is one place along there that could support a busy train service.

 

Or, populate Thorney, and use the RAF base as the justification for, say, aviation-fuel tanks.I think in your period it was a search and rescue base, with Westland Wessex helicopters.

Edited by Nearholmer
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So bit of an update. I have cut back the embankment to give a bit more room for the substation.

 

attachicon.gif20180303_115109.jpg

 

I've also made a start to the rectifier building.

 

attachicon.gif20180303_115042.jpg

 

This is based on photographs i've found on RMweb and the internet. I counter out the bricks, and originally made the side full size, but it looked to large, so i've brought the height down by about 5 rows of bricks and shortened the length, and it doesn't look too bad.

 

More updates as I continue the build.

 

I have not followed this thread recently, but now see you are possibly considering something different. But, just in case you are still going for an electrified branch, and are still working up a substation, perhaps this example at Queenborough, which I will be modelling, will help you determine a perfectly adequate, small substation. It is c.22 metres long and with just two breakers.

 

https://www.google.fr/maps/place/Queenborough,+UK/@51.4180787,0.749351,124m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x47d8d5f7222a99d1:0x6a3e648aadf60fbb!8m2!3d51.4172853!4d0.7470207

 

I am sorry - I have no idea why this image keeps attaching upside down - I have now tried it three times, even turning the original upside down to compensate.

post-13143-0-23815700-1521754650_thumb.jpg

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This has developed into a really fine layout Chris, and I wish I had followed it more closely. Will do so now!

 

One thing, which I cannot see explained on this thread or on your website, is the construction you used for the station building, and particularly the canopies. I will need to scratch build canopies for Sheerness on Sea, but have been looking for ages for column supports and brackets at a reasonable cost. Your canopy attached to the station building is a short version of that which I will need to build. What did you use for the columns/brackets please?

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Queenborough is a distinctively Kent Coast (1950s) substation. I don't think there are any to that design on the central section outside London.

 

Though I suppose the number of people who can locate a layout by the type of DC substation is pretty low!

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This has developed into a really fine layout Chris, and I wish I had followed it more closely. Will do so now!

 

One thing, which I cannot see explained on this thread or on your website, is the construction you used for the station building, and particularly the canopies. I will need to scratch build canopies for Sheerness on Sea, but have been looking for ages for column supports and brackets at a reasonable cost. Your canopy attached to the station building is a short version of that which I will need to build. What did you use for the columns/brackets please?

Yes, I really must write up some bits about how the buildings are made. Long story short to help in the short term is that I tend to work with Slaters brick plasticard, laminated to plan 40 thou plasticard.

 

As regards the canopy, the bits came from a standard Wills canopy kit, bit with the roof inverted. The columns are from the same kit.

 

Hope this helps.

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This is the very reason why I haven't renamed the thread yet.

Electrifying the Meon Valley, yeah, probably a stretch too far.

 

Nah, my layout development plan is a stretch too far......

 

Swanage based trackplan but modified in an operational sense to be a bi-directionally signalled 'in-out' station (a bit like Battersby is now) with one of the routes 3rd rail.

 

It will even 'support' an overnight motorail service; 3rd rail electric loco, BCK, SLC, SLSTP, Motorail flat, Motorail flat.

 

But, hopefully done in a representative way of how such a place would be operated (if it existed). I think by getting the scene correct and the operation representative the back story almost writes itself.

 

Perhaps just a more thought out 'Rule 1' scenario may well work?

Edited by leopardml2341
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Having slept on the ideas, I think the most plausible is that an extra chord was put in from the Gosport branch in the Portsmouth direction. This might have actually helped create extra traffic to Lee-on-the-Solent, and hence the line being electrified.

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Having slept on the ideas, I think the most plausible is that an extra chord was put in from the Gosport branch in the Portsmouth direction. This might have actually helped create extra traffic to Lee-on-the-Solent, and hence the line being electrified.

Queen Vic’s funeral train had to reverse at Fareham. After all, which other London terminus but Victoria could Her Late Maj arrive at? So this is indeed rewriting history.

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Queen Vic’s funeral train had to reverse at Fareham. After all, which other London terminus but Victoria could Her Late Maj arrive at? So this is indeed rewriting history.

Ah, i'd forgotten about that.

 

Fortunately the Southern built the chord when they took over the line in 1923, so no need to rewrite that noteworthy part of history..... :)

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So, back to the actual layout, rather than focus on a fictional history. I'm still not totally convinced about changing name / location, so will let it lie for a while. It's only a name after all.

 

So as i've already mentioned a few posts back, i've started on the extension to the layout. This has pretty much been completed, so here are a few photos to show the progress.

 

post-13704-0-38771600-1522310519_thumb.jpg

New baseboard in place and attached to the layout. Not sure what baseboard style this is called, but the sandwiched sides ensure the whole board doesn't twist.

 

post-13704-0-72392500-1522312769_thumb.jpg

Here it is now completed with the new tracks layed for the oil sidings. The tracks for the platforms have been extended so that each will now take a 6 car EMU formation, even though the fiddle yard will only take 5.

Behind the sidings will be the station building and forecourt. This will be at a slightly higher level, almost be not quite at platform level.

 

post-13704-0-78025900-1522316272_thumb.jpg

There will be a road dropping down in front of the station to cross over the oil sidings. As can also be seen in the photo, i've also taken the opportunity to rebuild the station platforms. I've never really been happy with them, as being constructed completely from plasticard, the platform surface was starting to warp and delaminate.

 

I've started drawing up plans for the station building based on photos of Woking, Templecombe, Seaton, those stations on the Chessington branch. The book "Southern Neuveau" has a nice plan of Chessington North which has provided a lot of inspiration, as well as help from a couple of member of the club I belong too.

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Hi Chris, I've just popped over to have a look and what a wonderful layout, talking about renaming your layout I think perhaps the south coast is a great idea considering it has 3rd rail electrification. Maybe a new terminus in Selsy was built for the large influx of holiday commuters and the increase in population or something on Hayling island. Anyway whatever comes to mind I have this website which gives access to various maps and detailed drawings of the railways. Hope it helps, cheers.

 

http://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=16&lat=50.8333&lon=-0.7880&layers=168&b=1

 

I recommend using the map "OS 25 inch" for detailed drawings of the railways and "Bartholomew Half Inch 1897-1907" to view the Selsey branch. 

 

Rory

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Progress has been rather slow over the past couple of weeks. It's now F1 season, so at least a couple of hours modelling time is lost on a Saturday and Sunday watching (or sleeping through) the "action".

 

However the rebuild of the platforms is continuing. Here are a couple of photos of progress so far.

 

post-13704-0-03031800-1523519385_thumb.jpg

 

post-13704-0-39177800-1523519444_thumb.jpg

 

post-13704-0-06713200-1523519479_thumb.jpg

 

Also, whilst cleaning it's wheels, my Heljan Class 47 has finally succumbed to the weatherer's brush.

 

post-13704-0-60924100-1523519611_thumb.jpg

 

More thoughts as to the new location, I am definitely leaning more towards either Selsey or Thorney Island. Selsey would give more reason for lots of passenger services (holiday traffic to the adjacent holiday park) and the oil sidings could be for heating oil, whereas, Thorney Island would open up more possible military traffic, but slightly harder to justify a fairly intensive passenger service.

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Hi Chris, I am also reconsidering what my layout should represent in terms of era and prototypical traffic in the southern region more specifically on the West Coastway line. If you were to relocate your layout to Selsy, would you use rolling stock as seen at Chichester station, perhaps in the form of a 4vep/4cig? I am not currently aware of any loco hauled passenger services on the West Coastway but I am certainly interested on what you would run, many thanks.

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IIRC the Brighton to Salisbury and Cardiff/Exeter services remained loco-hauled for a long time, but there weren't that many of them. Might be worth googling the topic, because at some point it/they became a Hastings unit.

 

I don't think there was a newspaper train, but again worth checking.

 

Fair bit of freight, and plenty of engineer's trains, of course.

 

This might give you a few clues http://www.brightonmrc.com/potm.htm

Edited by Nearholmer
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Around my time period, the West Coastway would have been served by the surviving 2-Bil, 2-Hal and 4-Cor units in the most part.

 

I have a 2-Bil and a 2-Hal from Hornby in Blue, plus 2 Ian Kirk 2-Bil's to build. I also have a 4-Cep and 2-Epb. The Epb's I don't think got as far as the south coast, so this may become a 2-Hap. I also have a 2-Hap kit to build.

 

So my thoughts are, that i'll have a Coastway service formed of 2-Bil/Hal stock. A London direct service formed of the 4-Cep. The Thumper can form a service to Southampton, with the 4-TC being on a Salisbury service.

 

I'm also going to run a newspapers train, mainly because I like parcel stock, and possibly a cross-country service of some sort.

 

This is probably rather contrived, but it sort of works in my head. I just wonder if this would work better serving Thorney Island and the RAF Base, rather than a holiday camp?

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EPBs might occasionally visit West Coastway in the summer hols, when various Q-path (runs as required) excursion trains might be used. East Croydon would ask Control for an extra, which would be crewed and sitting in Selhurst Depot. Timetabled excursions also occasionally ran from all sorts of implausible places like Merton Park, all stations to Sutton then fast to Littlehampton.

 

I think the papers for Chichester may have come up from Havant. Certainly on Sundays in the early '70s when lines were blocked there were all sorts of arrangements involving MLVs to that city. 

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