Inspired by Brent June 1947

[Brinkly]

Hi Rich,

 

I've really enjoyed catching up with your thread this evening; the layout is really starting to take shape.

All the best,

 

Nick.

[The Fatadder]

1 hour ago, Brinkly said:

Hi Rich,

 

I've really enjoyed catching up with your thread this evening; the layout is really starting to take shape.

All the best,

 

Nick.

Certainly starting to come together, my biggest worry at the moment is that I haven’t ran the layout in a long time, and I’m dreading finding running issues I’d missed before.

 

the random point issues earlier certainly don’t help my worries.   I think a good running session is in order one night this week.

 

there are certainly a few issues, wheels are a hodgepodge of different designs, most of which haven’t had the b2b checked.  I have a stock database and think adding a confirmed b2b field is going to be helpful.

 

likewise a lot of the couplings are untested (at least one of my coaches has the replacement hook/loop too short causing buffer lock on the curve.

 

the big issue remains the slip, which may or may not have too tight tolerances for the gap between switch rail and outer rail.  I am going to take some dimensions of the switches tomorrow (and check the gauge is correct while Im at it.).  I do think in my investigation today I’ve nailed down the issue though, it looks like the point won’t switch in one direction because the hole in the baseboard is too small, which is adding too much resistance to the operating arm.  It may be possible to open out from

above.  As I really don’t want to remove the motor if I can help it (refitting will be a swine). 
 

the to do list currently stands at: 

-finish work on signals and reinstall / wire ul

-add foliage covering to bushes around path

-add boundary fences to the railway, and the house

-add platform top edging, followed by the sandpaper surface.  The latter will need supergluing down I think. 

- add converting to the bank/hedge either side of the end of Vicarage Road plus do something with the northern end of the road

- I think I’m now in a place that the first 18inches of rear bank east of vicarage road can now be grassed 
-fix the slip...

-finally I need to look into some sort of Wi-fi extender. As I’m fed up with having no signal in the garage if the door is shut.  (And the phone signal is useless).  I wanted to check the to do list while working earlier and couldn’t get enough signal to access the page...

[Bluemonkey presents....]

Excellent. Your scenic work is lovely and is really bringing the whole scene to life.

[The Fatadder]

 

A little more was managed before work today, looking likely to be a working lunch so not a lot more getting done...

 

Some Vallejo black paint arrived last week, which means the signals could be finished off and are now ready to be returned to the layout.  I am still hunting for a 9v power supply for the signals (I think this will also resolve the strange issues i was having with the tortoise power supply.)  I need to check where the supply is for Wheal Imogen as that may well be 9V and could be swapped with the 7.5V supply thats currently linked to Brent.

 

I am getting frustrated with my current control panel, with two main issues: at present there is no indication as to what route is set and there is no room on the panel for any additional switching for the signals.  I am thinking about changing it to have a straight line of numbered switches at the bottom of the panel (resembling the leavers in a signal box), then have the track diagram above with all points numbered and LEDs to indicate the route settings.    That said for the moment what is most likely is that the signals will be wired up to push to make switches duck taped to the baseboard framing.   Following advice elsewhere on the forum I have a suitable wiring which will allow a signal to be wired to a tortoise switch, but that really only helps with one signal (the end of the loop).

 

Back to some actual modelling, on the prototype at the west end of the yard there are 3 buildings: Hawke's Store, the water tower and a small hut.  I havent managed to find any photos which are clear enough to build an accurate model of this hut, but I want something there to fill the gap.  As such I have what I think is a Coopercraft hut (though it could be a Ratio one), the sort of thing that I have a fair few of that came as part of a bulk order of kits.  it has been built as per the kit and painted in various timber shades with a slate roof and brick chimney.  Once the mortar is added this evening it can be returned to the layout.

Edited February 22, 2021 by The Fatadder

[The Fatadder]

Completely lost track of time working on the layout this evening.  Amazingly for some reason the Wi-fi was working, so was able to have some music on which I think helped.  (It also helped in that it masked a rustling sound either from the shed or next doors garage that I really hope is not mice!)

 

I started off with the signals and an additional tree for the island. 2 of the signals are bolted in place, the third is ready to go while the distant signal isn’t long enough to poke through the pink foam and will have to be glued.

 

I then moved onto the slip, trying to open out the hole for the control arm on the tortoise. It looks like the hole is slightly misaligned, meaning the control arm is rubbing the wood which is preventing it travelling far enough to apply enough pressure to drive both slide bars. (I am using two separate tie bars with a linkage between them.  By hand you can get enough pressure and it engages fine, but the tortoise always leaves a gap on one tie bar.   
this didn’t solve it (but I’m struggling to remove material from the key place as it’s too close to the linkage.). You can’t move the motor as it need to be aligned with the hole in the connecting bar.   So I tried moving the green bar that changes the length of the free part of the control arm.  (It started in the middle) reducing the height so the bar was near the baseboard  resulted in the issue getting worse, while increasing offed no benefit.  I think the next step is to remove the motor and carefully attack

the baseboard with a milling bit in the dremmel to open the hole from below.  The alternative option is buy another tortoise and have independent control of the two tie bars.  The issue with this will be that there are no holes under the tie bar to fit the control arm.  (The left hand tie bar is the issue controlling the bottom track).  I have also now realised where the screwdriver I couldn’t find was hiding!

having had enough of the slip I moved onto the platform, I want to get the rear bank covered in static grass and to do so I need the platform surface finished. 
So tonight I fitted all of the slabs to the up platform.  These will need painting tomorrow before adding the surface later in the week.

 I am now torn as to what I will use for the ash/grave part of the platform.  I had planned to use sandpaper, having found a good colour match.

 But now I am wondering about using ash as per the raised area of the fiddleyard.  This photo shows both options

While this has a spare section of the sandpaper cut to size placed in position.

[St Enodoc]

2 hours ago, The Fatadder said:

I then moved onto the slip, trying to open out the hole for the control arm on the tortoise. It looks like the hole is slightly misaligned, meaning the control arm is rubbing the wood which is preventing it travelling far enough to apply enough pressure to drive both slide bars. (I am using two separate tie bars with a linkage between them.  By hand you can get enough pressure and it engages fine, but the tortoise always leaves a gap on one tie bar.   
this didn’t solve it (but I’m struggling to remove material from the key place as it’s too close to the linkage.). You can’t move the motor as it need to be aligned with the hole in the connecting bar.   So I tried moving the green bar that changes the length of the free part of the control arm.  (It started in the middle) reducing the height so the bar was near the baseboard  resulted in the issue getting worse, while increasing offed no benefit.  I think the next step is to remove the motor and carefully attack

the baseboard with a milling bit in the dremmel to open the hole from below.  The alternative option is buy another tortoise and have independent control of the two tie bars.  The issue with this will be that there are no holes under the tie bar to fit the control arm.  (The left hand tie bar is the issue controlling the bottom track).  I have also now realised where the screwdriver I couldn’t find was hiding!

The equalising bar arrangement looks fine and obviously is if it works by hand. The actuating wire from the motor does look very close to the right hand side of the hole though. Increasing that gap (top and bottom if possible) would be my next try.

[Stephen Freeman]

Have you considered a Tortoise remote actuating mechanism? I used one once and it worked very well.

[Siberian Snooper]

Can you drop the Tortoise motor out and attach the slot with a dental burr in a Dremmel (other makes are available)?

 

[The Fatadder]

6 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

The equalising bar arrangement looks fine and obviously is if it works by hand. The actuating wire from the motor does look very close to the right hand side of the hole though. Increasing that gap (top and bottom if possible) would be my next try.

I think the next step is going to be the removal of the motor to give access to widen the hole, I think I have done all that I can from above (and noticed that I have lost some material off the side of the brass washer that connects the actuating wire to the linkage. 

 

29 minutes ago, Stephen Freeman said:

Have you considered a Tortoise remote actuating mechanism? I used one once and it worked very well.

I dont think its needed in this case, the issue is the location of the hole relative to the hole in the linkage into which the actuating wire needs to locate.  (meaning that the wire is pressing against the edge of the hole adding a lot of additional resistance.)  I am using one elsewhere on the layout to get the drive to a point which is located above a structural member in the layout legs close to the lifting section.

 

4 minutes ago, Siberian Snooper said:

Can you drop the Tortoise motor out and attach the slot with a dental burr in a Dremmel (other makes are available)?

 

I think thats going to be the only option now, the issue will be getting access given there is another layout stored underneath in that area (and nowhere else to move it).  So you have to lean in at a funny angle, it was difficult enough loosening the screws on the motor to do a slight adjustment.  Getting the actuating wire through the board is going to be even worse.   I do have a cunning plan to try and help though, I have always  found fitting point motors to be a task where a second pair of eyes would be really helpful.  Given that you want to be able to see above the board (to see where the actuating wire is going) while you are under the board and its hard to see.  If I prop my phone on top with the camera focused on the hole in the linkage, and set up a video call to my ipad underneath the layout I may have more of a chance...

 

At any rate my plan is to have another crack at it this evening, along with painting the slabs on the up platform.  Still cant decide which of the two options I will use for the rest of the platform surface though. 

[The Fatadder]

I went out to the garage to attack the underside of the point with a milling bit.  Again a difficult task given the poor visibility from below (it needed a second person from above really.)

Net result I ended up pushing the drill clean through the linkage.   Thankfully the right hand pin was fine and I’ve managed to semi straighten the left hand pin.

 

 So tonight I need to take the good soldering outside and solder a new washer in place.  I should probably find the original sketch of the linkage (if I remember rightly in @St Enodocs thread) first and make sure I get the alignment of the pins / washer correct.

 On the plus side this means it’s easy to sort the alignment of the actuator.   I am thinking a good option might be re fitting the tortoise, threading the washer onto the actuator arm and then soldering in place. That way it’s definitely in the right position (and the steel actuator arm will hold the brass washer in the right place.)   On the original build I did this prior to fitting the tie bars so it was very easy to assemble on bench

[St Enodoc]

7 minutes ago, The Fatadder said:

I went out to the garage to attack the underside of the point with a milling bit.  Again a difficult task given the poor visibility from below (it needed a second person from above really.)

Net result I ended up pushing the drill clean through the linkage.   Thankfully the right hand pin was fine and I’ve managed to semi straighten the left hand pin.

 

 So tonight I need to take the good soldering outside and solder a new washer in place.  I should probably find the original sketch of the linkage (if I remember rightly in @St Enodocs thread) first and make sure I get the alignment of the pins / washer correct.

 On the plus side this means it’s easy to sort the alignment of the actuator.   I am thinking a good option might be re fitting the tortoise, threading the washer onto the actuator arm and then soldering in place. That way it’s definitely in the right position (and the steel actuator arm will hold the brass washer in the right place.)   On the original build I did this prior to fitting the tie bars so it was very easy to assemble on bench

No sketch but a couple of photos:

 

 

Good luck!

[The Fatadder]

Thanks, so two parallel pins either side of the washer.  I think it should work ok, fingers crossed this sorts the problem!

[The Fatadder]

I removed the point motor and enlarged the hole a little more. Before screwing the motor back into place and resoldering the linkage between the two tie bars. This was a lot easier to fit the tortoise  than trying to thread it through the hole (but more difficult to solder than doing it off board originally.)

I have tested with the b set, a couple of wagons and an Oxford Rail toad. The latter had some running issues (I’m yet to determine if it’s down to poor back to backs or poor wheel profile as there were no issues with any stock fitted with Hornby/Bachmann/Gibson or Romfords).

other work had the base cost painted on the platform paving, and a little finishing on some of the bushes made at the weekend. 

Tasks:

The slip now needs to have the vees wired up to the point motors, before completing some live testing.

 

The wooden walkway at the platform ends has been removed for painting.  And needs to be relocated.

 

Bases of signals need covering in fine ballast & blending into the ground cover.  They still need wiring 

 

Paint the platform paving and add the rest of the surface.

 

add ground cover to the rear bank.

 

lots of fences!

 

While testing the slip I have found another problem with the couplings. 
I work on a standard that the left side (facing the layout) has the Dingham loop on while the right hand side has the hook.  While the rear of locos are fitted with Dinghams.   So far I’ve only tested stock on the Up Main and the Branch, both of which have the loco pointing towards the London end meaning the loop on the loco matches the hook on the wagon.  But on the down main there is a problem as the loco and wagon will have the same coupling.  
This will predominantly be an issue with the pick up goods, given it needs to directly interact with both mainline and branch (and hence has to have couplings that are the same way round).   I think the solution is to have an adaptor wagon with hooks on both ends which will stay with the loco, or fit the loco that will power the pick up goods with just a hook on the rear so that it will work with couplings directly.

 

the other issue is going to be with the vans/coach which are taken off the rear of mainline trains and transferred to the branch, where the same issue will be present .

Edited February 24, 2021 by The Fatadder

[Siberian Snooper]

The slip switch blades fit a lot more snugly now, good work.

 

 

[St Enodoc]

2 hours ago, Siberian Snooper said:

The slip switch blades fit a lot more snugly now, good work.

 

 

I'm still a bit concerned about the tight gaps at the blade tips...

[The Fatadder]

45 minutes ago, St Enodoc said:

I'm still a bit concerned about the tight gaps at the blade tips...

I share that concern, though the thought of adjusting it is something I would rather not do.  
More likely to switch to a finer profile wheel!  It wouldn’t be the end of the world to swap the Gibson wheels out of the TPO into the B Sets and likewise scavenge all of the Gibson wheels out of other stock and fit them in any wagons which don’t work. 
 

will see how the testing goes, as if the 45xx are an issue then there is no option other than resoldering the rail/tiebar.  

[The Fatadder]

An update on the K18, the MJT order arrived today, so I’m ready to finish off the K18.  I couldn’t resist test fitting the roof, it should be a perfect fit but for a slight misalignment on one end /side which will need some fettling.  It’s the sort of misalignment which looks good to the eye, but shows up when the next component is added meaning you unsolder and fix.  Of course if you don’t have the roof at that point you go on and finish a coach and can’t easily alter it.  Some work with a file should do the job.

 

will probably be back to the layout tonight, but finishing the K18 will be very tempting...

[St Enodoc]

9 hours ago, The Fatadder said:

I share that concern, though the thought of adjusting it is something I would rather not do.  
More likely to switch to a finer profile wheel!  It wouldn’t be the end of the world to swap the Gibson wheels out of the TPO into the B Sets and likewise scavenge all of the Gibson wheels out of other stock and fit them in any wagons which don’t work. 
 

will see how the testing goes, as if the 45xx are an issue then there is no option other than resoldering the rail/tiebar.  

Good idea. A bit of side control (springy wire) on the 45xx pony trucks might help too. Haven't looked at my 45xxs for some time but could you swap their pony wheels for Gibsons? I did that on my old Airfix Big Prairie many years ago (mainly to get see-through spokes but it improved the running as well).

[The Fatadder]

39 minutes ago, St Enodoc said:

Good idea. A bit of side control (springy wire) on the 45xx pony trucks might help too. Haven't looked at my 45xxs for some time but could you swap their pony wheels for Gibsons? I did that on my old Airfix Big Prairie many years ago (mainly to get see-through spokes but it improved the running as well).

It’s one of those jobs that’s on my to do list, mostly because they look so much nicer. 
 

ive just finished the wiring, and it worked perfectly with 4547 right up until the linkage failed.   I had a feeling this might happen as the pin was much shorter on one side due to the damage incurred earlier in the week. 
 

there is no way to add a longer pin on the underside, so I think the only option is to fit the linkage to the top of the sleeper tie bar.  It won’t look so good but it will get it working. 

[St Enodoc]

4 minutes ago, The Fatadder said:

It’s one of those jobs that’s on my to do list, mostly because they look so much nicer. 
 

ive just finished the wiring, and it worked perfectly with 4547 right up until the linkage failed.   I had a feeling this might happen as the pin was much shorter on one side due to the damage incurred earlier in the week. 
 

there is no way to add a longer pin on the underside, so I think the only option is to fit the linkage to the top of the sleeper tie bar.  It won’t look so good but it will get it working. 

You could hide it with a dummy FPL cover - even if there wasn't one there on the real thing!

[The Fatadder]

35 minutes ago, St Enodoc said:

You could hide it with a dummy FPL cover - even if there wasn't one there on the real thing!

I have a feeling it is supposed to have an FPL anyway, so that’s a good idea.  Will get it fixed tomorrow 

[The Fatadder]

The K18 roof has been fettled to fit the body and is now primed, only to then remember that I hadn’t glued on the rain strips (given the glue is in the garage).

 

Will get that sorted at lunch, followed by a coat of Vallejo grey black.  All being well it should be out on the layout on the back of milk train this evening 

[The Fatadder]

Lunchtimes modelling has seen the K18 finished, thanks again to @St Enodocfor selling me the kit.  It’s been a challenge, but resulted in a very nice coach 

[The Fatadder]

Sometimes a bit of track just makes you want to give up.

 

 

so this evening I went out to the garage to make the repair to the slip. The repair itself to the linkage was fairly straight forward. I found afterwards a little tweaking of the actuator was needed to get full closure in both directions but all very straightforward.

 

quick test with the multimeter showed no shorts, so plugged in the controller.  The first test had a dead spot (a wire connected to the right rail on the 3 inch rail length before the point was loose.) fixed that and the loco is now derailing on the left hand side of the slip (which was perfectly fine before) and after a few tests a random short circuit appeared, yet with a multi metre both tracks are isolated.  So I got fed up and went back inside.

 

I did manage to get the up platform painted first, so this just needs the edge stones painted white.

I used my usual method, paint the plasticard a base colour, pick out lots of random stones and then overpaint with a stone colour to blend it all in

 

I also took the K18 out to put it with the milk train

 

[The Fatadder]

Having slept on it, I have some thoughts on the next steps on resolving the two issues: the derailments on the left side of the slip and the random short circuit.  The plan:

 

-Check the resistance across the tie bars at the London end.  
-The check rail on the branch platform exit of the slip continues through the first few inches of the plane track.  There is no short between the check rail and running rail, but I have a feeling the short may be a fleeting contact when a wheel is between them.  The solution is either cutting an isolation joint in the middle, or wiring this section as part of the vee.

-If that has not resolved it, it’s time to get under the baseboard and check that there are no wires shorting underneath the board.   Seeing as on Wednesday there was no short, hopefully checking the above reviews everywhere that I have worked last night and will find the issue.  (I guess the only other thing to check is if some idiot has left something metallic that is shorting across the rails somewhere.)

 

The running issue should be a bit easier

to identify the problem, but a lot more difficult to fix.  First up I can’t understand how a bit of track that worked perfectly on Wednesday will not work on Thursday (with exactly the same stock, and having not worked on the area of the slip that is causing the issue).  
I have borrowed the bogie from Berkeley Castle to do a little more checking, and it looks like the issue is the lack of clearance on the switch blades.  So much as I don’t want to do it I think the only option is to resolder the switch blade with wider clearance.  Hopefully nothing goes wrong.....