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Inspired by Brent June 1947


The Fatadder
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Its a little annoying that work need me in Sevilla this week, else I would almost certainly give the railway club a miss tomorrow and spend tonight installing the remaining switch rails and tomorrow doing the wiring.  

 

Still, its nice to think that by the end of Monday I will have managed that first circuit of the layout.  I think this is one of the reasons why I am planning to sacrifice some modelling time for a bit of major tidying of the layout room.  It will make the video of the  first circuit look a lot better....

 

 

I have been putting a bit of thought into another refinement to the garage this morning, replacing the up and over door with a pair of conventional doors.  The benefits would be twofold, in that it will make getting access to the garage a lot easier, and secondly it means a lot less of the door needs to be opened to get into the garage.  The latter is particularly useful in the rain, given at present you have to fully open the door in order to clear the lifting hatch.  Given that I need to provide storage space under the door end of the layout for the crates containing my wife's instruments / props (she has just started a franchise for a baby / toddler music class in Stroud), she is going to be needing to go into the garage in all weathers (and I dont want the layout getting wet!

 

If I switch to side opening doors, I can put up a stud wall partition 2ft into the garage which would both protect the layout from the elements when the door is open and also protect it from sight.

Rich, over here roller doors are very popular. Pretty well weatherproof and you/your wife wouldn't need to open them fully to get the crates in or out (and there is no risk of them blowing out of control in the wind).

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  • RMweb Gold

Rich, over here roller doors are very popular. Pretty well weatherproof and you/your wife wouldn't need to open them fully to get the crates in or out (and there is no risk of them blowing out of control in the wind).

thanks,  I will have a look into these in a bit more detail and see if it will both fit into the available ceiling footprint and within the budget...

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The first job last night was to finish off the points for the up fiddleyard. The remaining switch rails were quickly filed up on the jig, before soldering into place. I have ran out of thin copper-clad for the tiebars, so instead the solution is to take a full thickness sleeper and 30 seconds with a large file. Once the rails were soldered into place it was time for some testing, a Bachmann oil tank, Hornby long van and a Collett BTK the test stock. Lots of problems were experienced, mostly as a result of the gauge being too tight. I have never had an issue with under gauge track when using plastic sleepers / chairs, yet it seems to happen all too often when using soldered track. If I didn’t need my remaining plastic parts for Wheal Imogen I would give up and revert to plastic construction for the rest of the fiddleyard.

 

Fortunately almost all the problems were only occurring when running in the wrong direction, but I have decided to rectify the issues anyway (with the logic being it should avoid any stock proving problematic in the future.) Most issues were solved by reapplying heat and putting a track gauge in place directly above the joint before the solder hardened. One area did pose a bigger issue, with a vee not quite correctly aligned. While I certainly would not recommend this approach, my solution was to take a cutting disk in my Dremel and to carefully re-profile one side of the Vee (working in the gap between it and the wing rail). The end result runs perfectly. There is one troublesome area remaining, the lower most siding appears to have a dislike of the LNER van. I think it must be a radius issue with the long wheelbase, so will need to do a little more research. I was very surprised to find this model has a fully ridged chassis (and not the rotating arrangement employed by Bachmann on their LWB vans.)

 

The last remaining job on this section is to cut the gaps in the sleepers / isolate the wing rails and vee. This will have to wait until I can find an hour in the day at the weekend, as I don’t think anyone wants to hear the Dremel at 11 o'clock at night….

 

Points finished for the moment, attention has turned back to the straight track. The approach is to glue a yard at the left hand side, once dry then add the next yard, switch to the other end and add the first yard at the right hand side, before finally cutting a short length to fill the gap. The last couple of inches of the long lengths is not glued to provide some more adjustment. I do miss the rigidity of the Exactoscale product for producing straight track. If I was doing this again I think I would have preferred to pay the extra and save the effort of trying to keep the Peco track straight.

 

For fiddleyard spacing I have been using a C&L brass back to back gauge (OO), it is very tight for getting stock onto the rails, but maximises the track in the available space.

 

The final job last night was to test fit some stock into the fiddleyard, checking to ensure that capacity is aligned with the original intention. So far it is clear that the top siding will hold a loco plus 7 coaches, while the next line will hold my 8 coach Cornish Riviera Express with a King / Grange pair on the front with almost a coach length to spare. Given that the layout will mostly be running with 6 coach formations, this should mean there is plenty of space to hold multiple trains in one road.

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post-54-0-15522500-1493716123_thumb.jpg

post-54-0-72297200-1493716133_thumb.jpg

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  • RMweb Gold

Hi Rich my garage door was on it's last legs I'd repaired it so many times it got to the point of needing replacement I opted for this "Garador" one it cost me £1250 fitted It gave me a further 18" of baseboard area against the old up & over one,  just one small door to the right to save opening the garage to the elements when entering, it was made to order the small door can be either side, they come in standard white I paid extra for the green factory finish. 

They available on line if you know a good builder who can fit it if not go local as the national companies charge the earth.

 

post-8647-0-20497100-1493717903_thumb.jpg

 

 

          Regards Bob

 

Edit ; they are side hinge hung.

Edited by 81C
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The first job last night was to finish off the points for the up fiddleyard. The remaining switch rails were quickly filed up on the jig, before soldering into place. I have ran out of thin copper-clad for the tiebars, so instead the solution is to take a full thickness sleeper and 30 seconds with a large file. Once the rails were soldered into place it was time for some testing, a Bachmann oil tank, Hornby long van and a Collett BTK the test stock. Lots of problems were experienced, mostly as a result of the gauge being too tight. I have never had an issue with under gauge track when using plastic sleepers / chairs, yet it seems to happen all too often when using soldered track. If I didn’t need my remaining plastic parts for Wheal Imogen I would give up and revert to plastic construction for the rest of the fiddleyard.

 

Fortunately almost all the problems were only occurring when running in the wrong direction, but I have decided to rectify the issues anyway (with the logic being it should avoid any stock proving problematic in the future.) Most issues were solved by reapplying heat and putting a track gauge in place directly above the joint before the solder hardened. One area did pose a bigger issue, with a vee not quite correctly aligned. While I certainly would not recommend this approach, my solution was to take a cutting disk in my Dremel and to carefully re-profile one side of the Vee (working in the gap between it and the wing rail). The end result runs perfectly. There is one troublesome area remaining, the lower most siding appears to have a dislike of the LNER van. I think it must be a radius issue with the long wheelbase, so will need to do a little more research. I was very surprised to find this model has a fully ridged chassis (and not the rotating arrangement employed by Bachmann on their LWB vans.)

 

The last remaining job on this section is to cut the gaps in the sleepers / isolate the wing rails and vee. This will have to wait until I can find an hour in the day at the weekend, as I don’t think anyone wants to hear the Dremel at 11 o'clock at night….

 

Points finished for the moment, attention has turned back to the straight track. The approach is to glue a yard at the left hand side, once dry then add the next yard, switch to the other end and add the first yard at the right hand side, before finally cutting a short length to fill the gap. The last couple of inches of the long lengths is not glued to provide some more adjustment. I do miss the rigidity of the Exactoscale product for producing straight track. If I was doing this again I think I would have preferred to pay the extra and save the effort of trying to keep the Peco track straight.

 

For fiddleyard spacing I have been using a C&L brass back to back gauge (OO), it is very tight for getting stock onto the rails, but maximises the track in the available space.

 

The final job last night was to test fit some stock into the fiddleyard, checking to ensure that capacity is aligned with the original intention. So far it is clear that the top siding will hold a loco plus 7 coaches, while the next line will hold my 8 coach Cornish Riviera Express with a King / Grange pair on the front with almost a coach length to spare. Given that the layout will mostly be running with 6 coach formations, this should mean there is plenty of space to hold multiple trains in one road.

Well that will certainly be true if they're all like the one at the left end of the rearmost track.

 

What track centres did you actually end up with?

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  • RMweb Gold

Well that will certainly be true if they're all like the one at the left end of the rearmost track.

 

Indeed, my current plan is that I will be adding two short sidings off the kingsbridge fiddle yard for Thomas and Percy to live.

 

What track centres did you actually end up with?

I think the spacing between tracks is appropriately 14.5mm. So the track centre spacing should be approximately 32mm

 

The far line has a clearance to the wall circa 5mm from the sleeper edge

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Indeed, my current plan is that I will be adding two short sidings off the kingsbridge fiddle yard for Thomas and Percy to live.

 

I think the spacing between tracks is appropriately 14.5mm. So the track centre spacing should be approximately 32mm

 

The far line has a clearance to the wall circa 5mm from the sleeper edge

Rich, that's exceptionally tight for the track centres. Before you reach the point of no return, make sure that your trains can actually fit alongside each other - noting that Centenaries for example are 9 ft 7 in wide (> 38 mm).

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Rich, that's exceptionally tight for the track centres. Before you reach the point of no return, make sure that your trains can actually fit alongside each other - noting that Centenaries for example are 9 ft 7 in wide (> 38 mm).

It certainly is pretty very tight, but it appears to work. I now have all four roads of the up fiddle yard laid and have so far tested 3 of them filled with stock and have not had any issues with coaches or locos fouling each other. You do make a good point re the Centenaries, espicially as mine are fitted with etched side overlays. I think a job for tomorrow evening is to dig out my centenary rake and double check the clearances with them.

 

So far I have been using a combination of Hawksworth, Collett and LMS coaches as a check without any issues. The next step is to do some testing of loco stop positions and associated clearances, with a H26 70ft diner and a mk3 (in Great Western Trains' Merlin livery to be sort of relevant). The idea is to add a post at the limit of clearance in order to make it very clear as to where you must stop.

 

The down fiddleyard is going to take some more thinking, as the longest road (and the tightest clearance) extends onto the curve. Before I can worry about that I would like to get the current build wired up however.

 

I am having some regrets about the design, I should have reverted to the drawing board the moment I realised the gap between tracks over the Avon bridge was wrong, and redesigned the whole fiddleyard accordingly. The lowest of the up storage roads has a bit of a nasty reverse curve before the point, and certainly cant be used for through running. It has made it easy to work out which road is intended for Freight however!

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Edited by The Fatadder
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It certainly is pretty very tight, but it appears to work. I now have all four roads of the up fiddle yard laid and have so far tested 3 of them filled with stock and have not had any issues with coaches or locos fouling each other. You do make a good point re the Centenaries, espicially as mine are fitted with etched side overlays. I think a job for tomorrow evening is to dig out my centenary rake and double check the clearances with them.

 

So far I have been using a combination of Hawksworth, Collett and LMS coaches as a check without any issues. The next step is to do some testing of loco stop positions and associated clearances, with a H26 70ft diner and a mk3 (in Great Western Trains' Merlin livery to be sort of relevant). The idea is to add a post at the limit of clearance in order to make it very clear as to where you must stop.

 

The down fiddleyard is going to take some more thinking, as the longest road (and the tightest clearance) extends onto the curve. Before I can worry about that I would like to get the current build wired up however.

 

I am having some regrets about the design, I should have reverted to the drawing board the moment I realised the gap between tracks over the Avon bridge was wrong, and redesigned the whole fiddleyard accordingly. The lowest of the up storage roads has a bit of a nasty reverse curve before the point, and certainly cant be used for through running. It has made it easy to work out which road is intended for Freight however!

Rich, it doesn't look as bad in the photos as you described earlier. Was your 14.5 mm between sleeper ends or between rails? Between sleeper ends would give a centre line spacing of about 45 mm which is actually the right spacing for standard double track, and which is about how your photos look, so you should be OK. I use 50 mm so that I can (just) reach down to pick up or rerail my stock.

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Rich, it doesn't look as bad in the photos as you described earlier. Was your 14.5 mm between sleeper ends or between rails? Between sleeper ends would give a centre line spacing of about 45 mm which is actually the right spacing for standard double track, and which is about how your photos look, so you should be OK. I use 50 mm so that I can (just) reach down to pick up or rerail my stock.

Ah that makes sense, must have cocked up the calculation.

My logic was the sleepers were approx 31mm (from google) and the gap between sleeper ends is 14.5

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Are you planning on running any 70 footers? as you may need to allow for the extra undercut with those beasts on curves.

Lots of 70ft coaches are planned (although I currently only have 2 of them). The plan is to test this evening, I think they are going to be banned from the lower road, but clear for the rest.

 

It will be a bit trickier on clearances in the down yard

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I don't think the 70' coaches ran off the mainline for that very reason of clearance I've not see them in any photo's anywhere else but the running lines and carriage sidings.

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  • RMweb Gold

A week on holiday followed by a week dealing with my eldest coming down with chicken pox has resulted in very little work on the layout. Tonight I finally managed to get to the layout room and tried to get on with the next phase of the fiddle yard.

 

Before I can start on the down fiddle yard there is the small issue of the missing section of the down main. managing to get the first rail glued into position, followed by forming and fitting the 1:9 vee. Once the second rail is in place (sometime this week) I can finally get on with the actual fiddle yard.

 

I have also been having a quick check as to the amount of track remaining, I think I have one yard remaining after finishing the down fiddle yard (so will need to buy another 9 yards + some large radius peco points in order to build the Kingsbridge yard.)

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Edited by The Fatadder
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progress is slow at the moment, I really need a mammoth wiring session to get the up fiddle yard working but cannot motivate myself to get on with it.

 

Instead this afternoon I have been working on the last remaining section of the down main, the point between it and the branch (which takes the place of the points between the down loop (which I couldn't fit) and the branch. This is a D9 point (in order to minimise the radius) and was a bit more of a pain than normal making he blades. However it is now fully assembled and waiting for a tortoise / wiring.

 

Initial testing pushing a Hornby Hakwsworth coach through in both directions worked well, so it's now ready for the next step.

 

The next 5 jobs (in no particular order) is to:

> fix he up main point to the down main single slip, no idea why but it has stoped closing fully. My hope is that the tie bar can be resoldered without removing the tortoise (which is an offset motor to clear a baseboard support)

> install tortoise to the up loop enterence and the down main to branch points, this means the whole scenic section of mainline will have live frogs and motors in place. (But until more wire and switches or DCC decoders are purchased will not be switchable)

> add spring trap point to up loop, I've been meaning to do this for ages but only think of it while I'm updating this thread never while in the garage!

> build down fiddleyard

> install motors / wire fiddleyard - this will probably be best left until the down (and possibly the branch) yards are in. I will then sort all the wiring in one session.

 

I have a week home alone coming up this month during which I want to achieve as much as possible. However if it is warm and dry there is a lot of airbrushing to do outside while there are no children worry about, which will take priority

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Edited by The Fatadder
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A further evenings work now has the sleepers for the left hand point fan glued into position and the first rail soldered on, had a bit of a near miss when the cutting disk shattered (somehow missing me and several hundred pounds of stock in the fiddleyard.)

 

Moving to the up loop, the catch point has been soldered into position (just needing the addition of a couple of slide chairs to finish it off.

 

A little tweaking of the point linking the up main to the slip seems to have solved the problem there.

 

A dry run with the flexible track shows that there is one yard remaining once the down fiddle yard is finished, so going to need to place an order for another 6 yards (along with 4 large pedo points as Inly have enough copper clad strip for the remaining points for the down yard.)

 

Finally I have made a start on the kingsbrdige fiddleyard, adding he fist length of track (up to the site of the first point)). This completes all of the track crossing the lifting section (enabling powered testing once the wiring is done). It will also enable me to test clearances on the tunnel mouths a little easier.

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Edited by The Fatadder
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All outer rails now in soldered into place on the left hand points, plus two 1:9 and a 1:6 vee soldered up and installed onto the copper sleepers. All three points are now ready for the switch rails and check rails etc adding.

 

The next step will be getting the right hand points up to the same standard (which in turn will enable the installation of the straight track between them)

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Edited by The Fatadder
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Another evening s work on the fiddleyard before I head off to Sevilla for a week of meetings (not to mention tapas!)

 

 

The right hand side of the down fiddleyard has been assembled (a pair of C10 to match the radius of the main plus an a6 to add the extra siding). As usual the sleepers were roughly chopped to length with the Xurons and then evosticked to the baseboard. At the scenic brake there is a slight change in rail height (the copper clad sleepers are the same thickness as the scenic sleepers which leaves a half mm or so gap. The first sleeper is then fitted with a couple of off cuts of 0.5 mm copperclad, and the next 4 sleepers have a transition down to the lower rail height.

 

With the first rail in place, the three vees were then filed to shape and then soldered before fitting onto the sleepers. This was finally followed with the other running rail (and a little tweaking to ensure it all works).

 

After finishing the scenic side joint, it was clear there was a slight misalignment of the down main. Fortunately the evostick bond is easy to brake with a scaple, so I separated the last 2 inches before regluing into the correct position.

 

With the basics of the point in place, the next step was to make a start gluing down the fiddle yard tracks. This generally takes a while as I want each length to fully dry before I start marking up against it to position the first track has been glued in position from both ends leaving an 18inch gap in the middle to be fitted once dry. The rest of the track will have to wait until I'm home from Spain.

 

Next jobs:

Finish gluing track

Make and install 6 pairs of switch rails

Clear out the under side of the fiddleyard so that I can start installing motors.

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Edited by The Fatadder
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Having stocked up on evostick this afternoon, I have spent this evening finishing off the straightntrack for the down main fiddle yard. Now to get on with finishing the points...

 

Due to space restrictions in the original plan, the up and down yards have a different design of pointwork. The result is that the up has 4 similar siding lengths while the down has one massive line (2 plus 8 70fters) the other lines get progressively shorter

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This evening I have been rather distracted working on my Modified Hall's lining, but having now got to the point where nothing else can be done until the conversion kit for the front end arrives from Brassmasters it was time to go out to the garage and work on the layout. It does now at least have a full set of orange black orange GWR lining, and G crest W on the tender.

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The only problem was the heat, it's dammed warm in there! Really wishing that I had added a window when I did the insulation work! The focus of this evenings work is once again is the right hand of the up fiddleyard. The next 3 tortoise motors have now been fitted, along with the rest of the feed wires for the 3 points and the right hand half of the up fiddleyard were soldered into place. While under the layout I made a start on connecting up the wires, before finally calling it a day when the heat became unbearable.

 

Hopefully I will manage to get the wires soldered together (along with adding the bus wires) tomorrow night, and finally be able to run the first train from Penzance into Brent station. Then it's time to start it all again at the other end of the fiddleyard!

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Edited by The Fatadder
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The plan for this evening was to take advantage of some slightly cooler weather to finish off the Penzance end of the up fiddleyard wiring and then test some trains, before moving onto the Paddington end. The actual wiring was completed fairly quickly, much as I hate working upside down under the layout (it is the only time that I wish I had made conventional baseboards which could be wired on their sides!) This was completed within the first half hour after getting in from work. The initial testing showed up a short, which turned out to be a rail which had expanded in the heat and was now touching a vee. A quick chop with the Dremel and a cutting disk sorted it out, and it was onto initial testing under DC.

With nothing more suitable to hand the initial testing fell to 47768, which worked perfectly.

post-54-0-77199300-1497565412_thumb.jpg

Returning to the layout 4 hours later it was a different story, 4 more vees were now shorting. Again out with the dremel to deal with the shorts (hopefully the gap wont be too big once the rail shrinks again...) The Powercab was then fired up along with King George V to start testing, after initial slow speed runs through the exit points / up loop point, the speed was increased to full mainline running. Other than a slight wobble over the east end of the up loop point it was perfect running from the fiddleyard to the edge of the lift out section. Reversing back was a different story as it hit the checkrail on the east up loop point, the lead driver would derail, closer inspection showed that as it reached the frog the opposite wheel was lifting up. After checking for obstruction in the check rail, I am starting to think it is an issue with the frog itself. It looks like the frog is too tight, which in turn be changing the wheel's direction half way through the check rail causing the leading driver to lift off. Something to investigate another day.

 

The final test was to conduct a full speed run under load (consisting of 7 Hornby and Mainline coaches), other than the aforementioned wobble it worked perfectly. The train is now stuck in Brent station due to engineering work, and cannot proceed until the line ahead is wired up. The tortoise motors also need wiring up in order to activate the other 3 lines of the up yard.

post-54-0-63853300-1497565434_thumb.jpg

Now it was time to start work on installing tortoise once again, initially fitting the motor to the facing point which is connecting the down main to the Kingsbridge branch. The easiest of the lot given the flap could open up to give easy access! The next 3 need furniture moving to clear access so can wait for tomorrow...

Then I need to get it wired up so I can do some full circuits!

Edited by The Fatadder
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The plan for this evening was to take advantage of some slightly cooler weather to finish off the Penzance end of the up fiddleyard wiring and then test some trains, before moving onto the Paddington end. The actual wiring was completed fairly quickly, much as I hate working upside down under the layout (it is the only time that I wish I had made conventional baseboards which could be wired on their sides!) This was completed within the first half hour after getting in from work. The initial testing showed up a short, which turned out to be a rail which had expanded in the heat and was now touching a vee. A quick chop with the Dremel and a cutting disk sorted it out, and it was onto initial testing under DC.

With nothing more suitable to hand the initial testing fell to 47768, which worked perfectly.

attachicon.gifIMG_2725.jpg

Returning to the layout 4 hours later it was a different story, 4 more vees were now shorting. Again out with the dremel to deal with the shorts (hopefully the gap wont be too big once the rail shrinks again...) The Powercab was then fired up along with King George V to start testing, after initial slow speed runs through the exit points / up loop point, the speed was increased to full mainline running. Other than a slight wobble over the east end of the up loop point it was perfect running from the fiddleyard to the edge of the lift out section. Reversing back was a different story as it hit the checkrail on the east up loop point, the lead driver would derail, closer inspection showed that as it reached the frog the opposite wheel was lifting up. After checking for obstruction in the check rail, I am starting to think it is an issue with the frog itself. It looks like the frog is too tight, which in turn be changing the wheel's direction half way through the check rail causing the leading driver to lift off. Something to investigate another day.

 

The final test was to conduct a full speed run under load (consisting of 7 Hornby and Mainline coaches), other than the aforementioned wobble it worked perfectly.

attachicon.gifIMG_2727.jpg

Now it was time to start work on installing tortoise once again, initially fitting the motor to the facing point which is connecting the down main to the Kingsbridge branch. The easiest of the lot given the flap could open up to give easy access! The next 3 need furniture moving to clear access so can wait for tomorrow...

Then I need to get it wired up so I can do some full circuits!

 

Nice to see this sustained progress.  I'm re-living significant moments in layout development here (fiddle yard clearances, getting point & crossing work right, first full circuits of track).  Good luck and best wishes.  You're certainly maximising the time available.  Can't imagine how I could have ever built a layout while I had a job and a young family - which is probably why I didn't bother!

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  • RMweb Gold

So far today I have managed to install one more motor before finding that there is a cross beam in the way of the second point. So work has stopped while I go and pick up the girls from nursery, it's now a decision between chopping out the cross beam or looking at some sort of remote drive. The latter is the first thought as there is a possibility bloc driving both points off a single motor....

 

The passengers on last nights London train are going to have to wait a little longer to depart Brent

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