Inspired by Brent June 1947

[checkrail]

You're making excellent progress here Rich.  It's really beginning to look like Brent.

 

 

[The Fatadder]

4 hours ago, checkrail said:

You're making excellent progress here Rich.  It's really beginning to look like Brent.

 

 

 

Glad you think so, 

To be honest I quite often look at the layout and can only see the errors.  The yard is too deep, the order of the points on the east side of the yard is wrong (in turn this pushes the cattle dock to the left and increases the depth of the yard.)  fitting the river in to the only location where the baseboard could drop leaves too big a gap between it and Vicarage Road (and has resulted in the proportions between it and the road looking wrong.  In this case I am about to chop the top of the near side of the cutting and reprofile it as a) its too high and b ) there is insufficient space for the signals).   There are issues in the location of tracks around the rear of the yard at the Plymouth end (again stemming from the width and the compression in length).  

 

Half of the problem is that it started as a layout inspired by Brent and rather morphed into an attempt to model Brent.  I often think your approach to Stoke Courtenay might have been a better bet....    I am sure as it starts to come together I will get over it, if not, all the buildings are being made to scale and there is always a chance of making Brent mk2 (with a scale track plan) one day...

[checkrail]

17 hours ago, The Fatadder said:

Glad you think so, 

To be honest I quite often look at the layout and can only see the errors.  The yard is too deep, the order of the points on the east side of the yard is wrong (in turn this pushes the cattle dock to the left and increases the depth of the yard.)  fitting the river in to the only location where the baseboard could drop leaves too big a gap between it and Vicarage Road (and has resulted in the proportions between it and the road looking wrong.  In this case I am about to chop the top of the near side of the cutting and reprofile it as a) its too high and b ) there is insufficient space for the signals).   There are issues in the location of tracks around the rear of the yard at the Plymouth end (again stemming from the width and the compression in length).  

 

Half of the problem is that it started as a layout inspired by Brent and rather morphed into an attempt to model Brent.  I often think your approach to Stoke Courtenay might have been a better bet....    I am sure as it starts to come together I will get over it, if not, all the buildings are being made to scale and there is always a chance of making Brent mk2 (with a scale track plan) one day...

 

I'm pretty sure that as time goes by you'll be pleased with the choices you made and be glad you persevered.  My own modelling time (and skills!) are limited, and have to compete with other hobbies and interests, and all I really wanted to do was create a stage set on which to watch a few trains go by. In doing so I've probably broken a lot of operational and signalling rules that copying an exact prototype would have avoided.  I also suffer from a deadly combination of indolence and impatience.  So I salute your rigorous and ambitious approach which, from recent photos, is beginning to bear fruit.  Once the main buildings are completed it will cry out "Brent", and no-one will notice any spatial discrepancies.  Anyway, these things all depend on one's vantage point, perspective, elevation, foreshortening effects etc.  Don't be too self-critical.  This is shaping up to be a great layout and will I hope provide the rest of us with online interest, instruction and enjoyment for many months to come as it develops.  I'm really looking forward to the stage where you can show us pictures of authentic trains running through a fully scenic section.

 

 

 

 

[The Fatadder]

Having not touched Brent since June, tonight I finally made it out to the garage with the intention to do some work on the layout.

 

 

first things first, it seems the summer heat has caused a few track problems.  With at least one point now not working with stock that ran perfectly previously.  Annoyingly this means another long batch of track testing is needed (which also means a lot of time wasted tidying up tools etc rather than modelling...)  There are also big problems with the backscene peeling away from the wall.  Which unfortunately doesn’t look saveable so that’s £50 down the drain...

 

My plan had been to start on ballasting, I am using the Carrs product.  With light grey used on the main and branch plus the branch platform, and ash used for the cross and yard.

 

i have one and a bit large jars of the former but wasn’t able to buy the latter at Scaleforum.  As it’s £7 postage, I’m waiting for Warley to pre order some more.  But want to ballast as much as possible before hand so I can see how much more of the grey ballast I need.

 

However before  starting there was one messy job that needed finishing.  I was never happy with the hill on the viewing side of the layout at the Plymouth end.  It incorrectly rose up above the road and finished too close to the tracks to allow the signal to fit.   Today I chopped off the top inch of height, re-profiled and re-plastered the hill giving a gentler slope and enough clearance for a signal.   I am now debating the other side which also may not have sufficient clearance for a signal (and is possibly too steep for grass.)  this would be a harder job giving the lack of access.

 

no photos as by the time I had finished hands were covered in plaster!  Will hopefully get a vacuum cleaner out there tomorrow night to clean up the mess and maybe start ballasting the first stretch of ok track... 

[The Fatadder]

Still not  a lot of work on the layout. In the new year I really need to get on and get the ballasting and running repairs sorted!

 

however I keep getting distracted with stock building.  With tonight’s modelling time spent searching for a set of OO frame spacers for a Mitchell 73xx chassis that I am planning to rebuild from its current dodgy (2nd hand) P4 build.  It took a while (finding them just as I gave up looking).  But in the process I also found the missing mud doors for my Finney Collett Goods that’s likley to be next on the bench.  I also found a set of Bachmann OO wheels for a collett goods, left over from an Ultrascale conversion.  As I have a set of bearings for a 3mm axle I am tempted to reuse.  Though I need to find a way of getting Romford crank pins to fit rather than the thick Bachmann ones...

 

all in all while I got no output, it was a productive evenings work setting up the next few weeks modelling.  Although I won’t be able to do any chassis work until my new jig arrives on xmas day!

[The Fatadder]

I was given a new Hall for Christmas, 5972, I’m not overly convinced about the accuracy of the model, yet alone the colour.

 

Today’s job is to motorise it’s and have it running around the Christmas tree. 

[The Fatadder]

I also got this which should be a little more useful, and has now been made up ready to use (though it will get a coat of varnish before hand I think).

 

There was also a Gibson order, although unfortunately I need to return the wheels for the 73xx as they sent the extended axle outside frame version by mistake.  Looking forward to marking a start on the chassis for 7316 when we return home

[bgman]

1 hour ago, The Fatadder said:

I also got this which should be a little more useful, and has now been made up ready to use (though it will get a coat of varnish before hand I think).

 

There was also a Gibson order, although unfortunately I need to return the wheels for the 73xx as they sent the extended axle outside frame version by mistake.  Looking forward to marking a start on the chassis for 7316 when we return home

 

I have the 7mm version of the builder box as a standby and have also given it a coat of sealer, very useful to have in any scale.

 

G

[The Fatadder]

11 minutes ago, bgman said:

 

I have the 7mm version of the builder box as a standby and have also given it a coat of sealer, very useful to have in any scale.

 

G

I have the most basic version of the Chassis Squared jig but never really got on with it. I am hoping  that Working upright with the Poppy jig suits me better.   
 

it will get sealed with varnish tomorrow once the glue is fully set.  Then there are 3 chassis ready to be built....

[The Fatadder]

Still not added crankpin nuts to finish the chassis, but I have at least now finally added handrails to my Manor.  It also still needs to be fitted with glazing...

[The Fatadder]

Given the lack of progress on Brent in 2019, I am determined to get the layout moving forwards during 2020.

 

There are three main tasks that I want completed this year, and a forth that I would like to make significant process on.

 

Make repairs to the track, clean & retest everything.  The Exeter end double slip has an iffy point motor, there is a loose wire on the access hatch, and two fiddleyard points have damage that needs repairing.

Ballasting (if not fully ballasted, at least get the running lines done), this will need the stalls for the point rodding fitting first. 

Get the platforms installed - it will start to make the layout look a lot more like Brent and acts as the foundation for a lot of further scenic construction. It will also allow for the installation of more signals.

Speaking of signals, that is point 4.  Although it is unlikely that I will get them all wired up, it is my intention to get more of the signals installed.  In part this is because it will help assist in confirming that the locations where they will be fitted are suitable, so that changes can be made before scenery has progressed too far.

 

Starting with the signals, there is one that I am having real problems locating.  It controls the point between the up loop and the up main as it approaches the station.  Due to compression (and the need to fit in the curves at the end of the layout) it has been shifted relative to the prototype.  (The real thing is mounted on the bridge over the Avon, whereas on my layout the bridge has been shifted about a quarter of a mile up the line).   I think the ideal location would be under the bridge (which remains a possibility, I already need to build one short signal to go under the other bridge as the up starter). 
 

I have marked the end of the switch, how far back should the signal be?

 

My concern is whether the sides of the hill are too steep for grass (in which case I will reprofile the hill and start the include further back from the track to provide more space for the signal.  I would welcome feedback in this area please.

 

I have also been working on the platform, 

The stone facing was cut into strips before picking out random stones in different shades of grey. This was then glued to a length of stripwood (from memory 15mm in height) with one length 12mm thick and the other 6mm.  The latter was used to do the near side which was curved along its length, while the thicker wood completes the rear (which was almost straight) while providing a stronger base for the deck.  Leftover strip was then used to strategically reinforce the area underneath the signal box / waiting room / footbridge and around the signal (for which a hole has been predrilled ready for installation).   Once the paint was dry the two platform walls were evosticked into position on the baseboard.  I now need to decide on a material for the main surfaces, either plasticard or actual card, which will need to be cut to shape.  Slaters embossed paving slabs will once again be used for the platform surface.

Just having the outline of the platforms in place makes a huge difference to the layout, a big step away from the sheet of plywood look towards something which looks more like Brent

[The Fatadder]

A little more work last night.

 

I couldn’t progress on the platforms as I have nothing suitable to build the base of the platform top.  It needs something like 5 sheets of A3 plasticard to do the job, so I am currently trying to find the cheapest supplier.

 

Instead I started to look at the cutting, I started off reprofiling  one end which was a little too steep (along with smoothing off the transition for the rest).  This all needs to be replastered tonight. 
 

I have also looked at the signal, deciding in the end that the best solution was to cut away a small section of the cutting and add a retaining wall.  It’s seen in the below photo with a distant signal as a test.  (A Dapol square post was bought off eBay for the job today...)

 

while the 15mm dril was out I also drilled holes for the other 3 signals at this end of the layout.  One of which (a round post) will be shared with Wheel Imogen (and is marked to be transfered later on)

 

 

The next job is to hoover the track to remove plaster / sawdust and replaster the cutting.  I’m also aiming to make a start on the track repairs. 

 

 

[The Fatadder]

All looking a bit tidier now, along with another signal tested in position.  
 

next up will be adding bases for the point rodding.  Though I think i need a new blade for my NWSL chopper before I can cut them to size  

 

 

 

one other area I have been looking at is the house across the road from the yard highlighted in yellow below. 

It is tricky to accurately fit in due to the landscape changes, but I’m new rethinking. Something this sort of size would fit nicely if the ground was raised on the near side

[The Fatadder]

While I still haven’t got the layout cleared, nor made a start on the minor track repairs, I have been making progress.

 

First up at the Exeter end of the station another signal install, a damaged Dapol gantry kindly passed on to me by @checkrail.  It poses a bit of an issue in that once it is installed It will be nigh on impossible to remove without serious effort.   The signal is fitted into the baseboard, then the platform surface will be added boxing it in (before finally adding the shortened ladders).  My plan is to solder an inch long length of copper clad sleeper to the non working signal rod, this will be connected to a 3 inch length of rail which will go through a second hole in the baseboard (offset to miss the Dapol servo unit) and in turn attached to a tortoise (mounted through 90 degrees). 

The tortoise motor should then operate the shorter signal, but of course once all this is complete it will be underneath the platform surface (so future repairs will involve a lot of rework.    It also means that ideally I need to have added point rodding and ballasting to the mainline through the station to avoid needing to reach near to the signal risking damage.   As an aside, what is the second signal used for here?  I am assuming the taller of the two was the branch platform starter, but what about the lower one on the gantry?

 

Next up attention shifted to painting, finishing off the stonework on the cattle docks, loading platform and signal retaining wall.  All of which were then glued into position once dry.  The loading platform then needed to be blended into the existing slope (in essence moving the slope 3 inches to the right), completed using offcuts of card and masking tape (which will soon be given a coat of plaster).  The retaining walls for the vicarage road bridge have now all been cut, and require painting before being glued into position.

 

Across Vicarage Road from the yard I had been looking about adding a house as shown on the Google images in Saturday’s post.  Looking again at the  area on the layout along with prototype pictures of the house, it was clear that the changes to the geography in order to get the location to fit the space available are preventing a model of the real building.   However the place filler that I have been using looks a pretty good fit (its actually based on the station masters house from Sandford & Barnwell borrowed from Kites Croft).  It will need a window adding to one side (along with adding stonework to that wall), and a repaint into a whitewashed finish (something I am unsure how best to paint).  I will likely also try to add a crude interior given the closeness of all those windows to the front of the layout.   

In order to install it the top of the hill was reprofiled and extended by 2 inches (using thick card as a base).  A retaining wall (extended up as a garden wall) will finish the near side

 

Finally the platform, I only have one sheet of 40tho plasticard so was unable to get very far (it will need 9 more A4 sheets to complete the job).  The plastic is cut to size and then Evosticked into place on the platform core.  I have a couple of spacers made up to assist in getting a consistent overhang.  For the ramps I have cut a line across one side at the top of the slope, bent to shape and then reinforced with masking tape on the underside before gluing in place.  The mainline has been tested with a Hall and a Centenary to ensure clearances.  Once complete the gravel & paving slabs will be glued in place.  The up platform is quite straight forward, for most of its length there is a bank which hides the joint between platform and backscene (so you not need to cut so accurately).  I am dreading the down platform which is going to be a lot more fiddly to add given the curves and the need to ensure spacing on the front and rear.

 

Next up: 

Lots more plaster to blend in the new work around the Plymouth end of the layout

Paint retaining wall at Plymouth end of yard +the walls for the Vicarage Road bridge

Point repairs / wiring fixes & track cleaning 

Start cutting and installing the point rodding stands 

Get the plasticard ordered for the platforms

 

One thing with building even a moderatly sized layout like this on your own is that it all gets rather overwhelming when you look at the layout trying to identify what to work on.  (Both in terms of the number of jobs that need doing and the cost of raw materials and time in order to complete them.)   At present there are two large component costs, signals (it still needs up to 3 gantries, 1 round post Home and  2 square post home) while the point rodding is going to be very expensive to do properly. 

 

I may be able to save a little on the signals as I am debating what to do with the gantries, from the Plymouth direction the first gantry controls access to the loop (however the point to access it is right at the start of the scenic section so any train held at the signal would still be in the fiddle yard.)    I think this one will certainly be left off.  

At the other end there are two signals, one controlling the end of the branch and another on the down main as it appraoches the station.  In both cases the signals would have to be on the lifting section & I am very worried about their saftey (particularly given the cost).  One solution would be to just use non working Ratio signals here to get the look, while maintaining a price that is less critical should it be damaged.  Of course there is still option two which would mean this whole section is left non scenic as an extension of the fiddleyard.  In other words it is a problem for another day…..

[St Enodoc]

3 minutes ago, The Fatadder said:

As an aside, what is the second signal used for here?  I am assuming the taller of the two was the branch platform starter, but what about the lower one on the gantry?

Rich, the higher arm on the left was from the branch platform to the Up main (lever 5). The lower arm on the right was from the branch platform to the branch (lever 7).

[Siberian Snooper]

ISTR,  that you drew the layout up in Templot, so if you've not already done it, you could add the platforms and print out the relevant pages and cut the platform out and use it as a template. It may not be 100%, but it will give you the basics.

 

Have you looked at the Modelu point rodding stools, I thought that they were quite reasonably priced and it's only a matter of sticking them down and adding the wire rodding.

 

 

[The Fatadder]

4 hours ago, Siberian Snooper said:

ISTR,  that you drew the layout up in Templot, so if you've not already done it, you could add the platforms and print out the relevant pages and cut the platform out and use it as a template. It may not be 100%, but it will give you the basics.

 

Have you looked at the Modelu point rodding stools, I thought that they were quite reasonably priced and it's only a matter of sticking them down and adding the wire rodding.

 

 

 
 

That’s a good point re Templot, though I know there were some track adjustments at one end which were made on the fly, it will at least give a start point (and be easier than my planned method starting with a 12 by 4 inch rectangle, then measuring every half inch along the platform and marking on that dimension + the overhangs.  
 

I think the rear is straight which will help...

 

as for rodding, I am planing to use the model u stalls, but I need a lot of them and then there is the rod itself.   I keep meaning to look on eBay and see if there’s a cheeped bulk option than the MSE rod 

[Siberian Snooper]

I think that it's possible to alter the platform clearances,  if it's possible to open it up far enough to give you the platform wall ,for one template and a 2nd one for the platform surface, that would more or less give you your overhang, except where the track differs from the original track plan templates.

 

 

[The Fatadder]

I think I am close to making more progress on the layout in the past week than I did in the past 6 months.

 

First up was the plastering of the modified areas at the Plymouth end, getting the mesh/masking tape base sealed up and blending in the ramp to the surfaces on either side.  It will still need one final coat of finer plaster / aertex before starting on the grass as it is still a little bumpier than I would like.

 

Next up was the platforms, after finding another sheet of 40thou plasticard the platform surface could be extended further adding another 8 inches to the up platform along with the first 12 inches of the down.  The latter was completed to see how well my plan of taking several different widths across the platform and cutting to size would work.  After confirming that the fit was good, I have added the slabs to the end ramp (given it requires more precision being fully covered with slabs).  I haven’t found a suitable product to model the blue curved bricks, but it looks like at least in part it was redone with slabs on the edge, I am doing this for the full platform (parallel with the edge) with paving extended by 2 slabs (perpendicular) along the length of the platform.  The area between will be filled with fine light grey ballast.

 

The final job was a start to the garage tidy, with the fiddleyard and Plymouth end of the layout the track has been cleared, hovered and the fiddleyard restocked.

I have identified 4 repair issues:

The double slip (incorrectly aligned point motor)

Point on entrance of down fiddleyard (track has lifted)

Point on entrance of up fiddleyard (switch rail broken off tiebar, paint has been removed ready for resoldering)

Red wire connecting lifting section to main layout has broken off, appears to be broken off a rail.

There is also a lot of work to do under the layout, moving shelving units around to finally get Wheal Imogen into its storage space, scavenging the remaining parts from Blackcombe so I can dispose of the scrap baseboard, and finally working out how I am going to add a dust cover to try and protect the layout (and the fiddleyard stock).

 

While doing this tidying I found that it appears one of my 45xx has succumbed to Mazac rot, thankfully it is only on the spare 4500 shell that was bought for Kits Croft and then put in storage until I feel the need to have another go at P4 steam.   I am now thinking I will break it down to separate the plastic parts from the mazac just in case (I have a damaged Churchward Models 4500, and I am thinking about adding the boiler/cab/tanks from the Bachmann model onto the Mitchell footplate to rescue both locos….

[Tallpaul69]

1 hour ago, The Fatadder said:

I think I am close to making more progress on the layout in the past week than I did in the past 6 months.

 

First up was the plastering of the modified areas at the Plymouth end, getting the mesh/masking tape base sealed up and blending in the ramp to the surfaces on either side.  It will still need one final coat of finer plaster / aertex before starting on the grass as it is still a little bumpier than I would like.

 

Next up was the platforms, after finding another sheet of 40thou plasticard the platform surface could be extended further adding another 8 inches to the up platform along with the first 12 inches of the down.  The latter was completed to see how well my plan of taking several different widths across the platform and cutting to size would work.  After confirming that the fit was good, I have added the slabs to the end ramp (given it requires more precision being fully covered with slabs).  I haven’t found a suitable product to model the blue curved bricks, but it looks like at least in part it was redone with slabs on the edge, I am doing this for the full platform (parallel with the edge) with paving extended by 2 slabs (perpendicular) along the length of the platform.  The area between will be filled with fine light grey ballast.

 

The final job was a start to the garage tidy, with the fiddleyard and Plymouth end of the layout the track has been cleared, hovered and the fiddleyard restocked.

I have identified 4 repair issues:

The double slip (incorrectly aligned point motor)

Point on entrance of down fiddleyard (track has lifted)

Point on entrance of up fiddleyard (switch rail broken off tiebar, paint has been removed ready for resoldering)

Red wire connecting lifting section to main layout has broken off, appears to be broken off a rail.

There is also a lot of work to do under the layout, moving shelving units around to finally get Wheal Imogen into its storage space, scavenging the remaining parts from Blackcombe so I can dispose of the scrap baseboard, and finally working out how I am going to add a dust cover to try and protect the layout (and the fiddleyard stock).

 

While doing this tidying I found that it appears one of my 45xx has succumbed to Mazac rot, thankfully it is only on the spare 4500 shell that was bought for Kits Croft and then put in storage until I feel the need to have another go at P4 steam.   I am now thinking I will break it down to separate the plastic parts from the mazac just in case (I have a damaged Churchward Models 4500, and I am thinking about adding the boiler/cab/tanks from the Bachmann model onto the Mitchell footplate to rescue both locos….

Good Progress Rich,

I can see why you havn't got to answer my last couple of PMs!

I had better go look at my Bachmann 45xxs, as I hadn't realized they were on the Mazac list!

 

Have realized from your Blog stock list for your Devon layout that I have a class 159 and a couple of 158s you might be interested in if you still need them?

I will PM you at the weekend.

Meanwhile I need to make a start on my new thread "Lower Thames Yard".

 

Cheers

Paul

 

[adrianmc]

On 27/01/2020 at 09:55, The Fatadder said:

Across Vicarage Road from the yard I had been looking about adding a house as shown on the Google images in Saturday’s post.  Looking again at the  area on the layout along with prototype pictures of the house, it was clear that the changes to the geography in order to get the location to fit the space available are preventing a model of the real building.   However the place filler that I have been using looks a pretty good fit (its actually based on the station masters house from Sandford & Barnwell borrowed from Kites Croft).  It will need a window adding to one side (along with adding stonework to that wall), and a repaint into a whitewashed finish (something I am unsure how best to paint).  I will likely also try to add a crude interior given the closeness of all those windows to the front of the layout.  

 

Thought you might be interested in a picture of Jeff Day's model of Sandford & Banwell's station master's house which is on his 4mm/ft scale P4 layout based on the station.

 

 

[The Fatadder]

1 hour ago, adrianmc said:

 

Thought you might be interested in a picture of Jeff Day's model of Sandford & Banwell's station master's house which is on his 4mm/ft scale P4 layout based on the station.

 

 

Very nice, and also particularly useful to me given that is the side that I have not yet modelled.  So I will replicate that window arrangement when I finish it off.   I never got round to adding the fancy woodwork on the roof or the tiles, so it will now be simplified (and have a slate roof more typical of Devon)

[The Fatadder]

duplicate post

Edited January 30, 2020 by The Fatadder

[St Enodoc]

12 minutes ago, The Fatadder said:

Very nice, and also particularly useful to me given that is the side that I have not yet modelled.  So I will replicate that window arrangement when I finish it off.   I never got round to adding the fancy woodwork on the roof or the tiles, so it will now be simplified (and have a slate roof more typical of Devon)

 

1 minute ago, The Fatadder said:

duplicate post

I'm not the only one getting annoyed and frustrated by duplicate posts then.

[The Fatadder]

3 minutes ago, St Enodoc said:

 

I'm not the only one getting annoyed and frustrated by duplicate posts then.

It’s a strange one, particularly prevalent when using my phone.  Most annoying