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Unfortunately as I expected last weekend's Tigermoth flight was cancelled due to the high winds (particularly gutting given how good the weather has been before / after). Anyway, this was as close as I could get to a Tigermoth.... Now rebooked for October...

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Having completed my charity walk between Wellington and Exeter on Saturday, (and recovered on Sunday), today was spent in the garage working on the layout.

 

Work has progressed on the track at the Plymouth end, another Vee was fitted along with a continuation of the up and down main to almost reach the fiddle yard. This was a little tricky after spotting a big mistake in the alignment of the down main in the Templot plan which had to be corrected by eye.

 

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In order to avoid getting bored with only building track it was time to get on with something else, in this case the Avon bridge end section. This was the start point.

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the first job was to cut the ply track bed down to side, adding in a couple of extra ribs cut to a rough profile. Once screwed into place the track was laid, before making a start filling in the holes with pink foam.

 

The other side really needs the basic frame of the bridge in place before I start building the sub frame / pink foam, and that can't be done until the Autumn / winter when the prototype is more visible.

 

Next up will be more track building, although I am starting to think about building either the up platform or the vicarage road bridge...

post-54-0-22480100-1472541494_thumb.jpeg

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Only a little more track progress this weekend, completing the outer rails and vee for the up loop points and finishing off the Plymouth yard enterence point

 

I have also been working on some more stock, with a start made on a 42xx respray to 4292 http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/blog/853/entry-18254-4292-respray-pt1/

 

Finally I have also got on and bought myself a 72xx

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I have just remembered that it was on here that there was a question asked about LNER coaches on the Brent route. I posted my response on ANTB yesterday.....sorry. The pic I found was also way out on date and time, being 1960. However I still remember seeing a pic of an earlier era train, in the same spot and I am sure it had a Gresley coach in the formation. Possibly even the same working that was Cardiff to Newquay?

Philth.

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Thanks all the same, I think at the moment the evidence suggests that the service from the North East to Cornwall didn't resume after the war until after nationalisation.

 

Though I will be keeping an eye out just in case....

 

After all, I do still have this one north of England service for which I still do not have a formation, I think I need to have a look for an LMS workings document and see if that provides any incite....

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Thanks all the same, I think at the moment the evidence suggests that the service from the North East to Cornwall didn't resume after the war until after nationalisation.

Though I will be keeping an eye out just in case....

After all, I do still have this one north of England service for which I still do not have a formation, I think I need to have a look for an LMS workings document and see if that provides any incite....

I think I put a bit on ANTB, that the Aberdeen Penzance was restored in '45, Mike The Stationmaster cannot find it in his Carriage working notices, so we are not certain if it was a Summer only working or it got dropped.

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I think I put a bit on ANTB, that the Aberdeen Penzance was restored in '45, Mike The Stationmaster cannot find it in his Carriage working notices, so we are not certain if it was a Summer only working or it got dropped.

The Aberdeen Penznace featured in a lovely Radio 4 programme last week/weekend. The programme was actually about accents and the train journey illustrated the rich diversity of spoken communication as 'we' traversed the route from a long way north to almost the end of the south west. Lovely listen.

Phil  

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I'm still trying to work out how the Cardiff Newquay included ER stock (not just one coach either as an odd insert). Presumably that stock returned either the next week or in another working within days. 

One fascinating working I did read about (but 1957) was empty stock, consisting mainly of Restaurant vehicles, that worked west on summer Fridays I think it was.

Phil 

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One fascinating working I did read about (but 1957) was empty stock, consisting mainly of Restaurant vehicles, that worked west on summer Fridays I think it was.

 

Ah, the Empty Diners!  It left Paddington at 12.5 pm on summer Fridays  having spent the previous two hours in Platform 4 being loaded with provisions.  In 1961, and I suspect previous years, it was formed as follows:

 

Brake second for Truro

Kitchen 1st for St Ives

Kitchen 1st and 2nd dining saloon, another kitchen 1st and 2nd dining saloon, a dining car and a brake second, all for Newquay

Dining car for Plymouth

 

Exactly what was meant by "kitchen 1st" and "dining car" changed over the years.  In 1961 at least the kitchen firsts and second dining saloons were booked to be the little used Mk 1 RFs and RSOs dating from 1951.  The catering vehicles, complete with victuals and crew, were added to their trains on arrival and worked back to Paddington on Saturdays.  On the outward run the train stopped at Exeter from 4 pm to 5 pm for gassing the kitchens.  One does wonder why this could not have been done at Paddington on the Friday morning.

 

As this is a Brent related thread I should give the time that this ensemble passed through Brent.  Sadly the nearest I can find is the passing time of 6.9 pm for Totnes.

 

Chris

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Ah, the Empty Diners!  It left Paddington at 12.5 pm on summer Fridays  having spent the previous two hours in Platform 4 being loaded with provisions.  In 1961, and I suspect previous years, it was formed as follows:

 

Brake second for Truro

Kitchen 1st for St Ives

Kitchen 1st and 2nd dining saloon, another kitchen 1st and 2nd dining saloon, a dining car and a brake second, all for Newquay

Dining car for Plymouth

 

Exactly what was meant by "kitchen 1st" and "dining car" changed over the years.  In 1961 at least the kitchen firsts and second dining saloons were booked to be the little used Mk 1 RFs and RSOs dating from 1951.  The catering vehicles, complete with victuals and crew, were added to their trains on arrival and worked back to Paddington on Saturdays.  On the outward run the train stopped at Exeter from 4 pm to 5 pm for gassing the kitchens.  One does wonder why this could not have been done at Paddington on the Friday morning.

 

As this is a Brent related thread I should give the time that this ensemble passed through Brent.  Sadly the nearest I can find is the passing time of 6.9 pm for Totnes.

 

Chris

Chris, according to "Operation Cornwall" from xPress Publishing, in 1957 it was formed as follows (carriage working numbers in brackets):

 

Brake Second Corridor (546), Kitchen First (719): Paddington -Truro

Kitchen First (722), Second Open Corridor (722), Restaurant Composite (744): Paddington - Par

Dining Car (no c/w number), Brake Second Corridor (no c/w number): Paddington - Plymouth

Buffet Car (734), Brake Composite Corridor (734): Plymouth - Par

 

The five coaches detached at Par went forward on the 8.15 pm Par - Newquay, and the two for Truro then went forward on the 3.30 pm Paddington - Penzance.

 

The book doesn't give any more detail of the coaches listed as Dining Car and Buffet Car unfortunately.

 

My Summer 1952 STT shows the train stopping at Brent from 5.49 pm to 5.53 pm to "attach or detach Bank Engine".

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I'm still trying to work out how the Cardiff Newquay included ER stock (not just one coach either as an odd insert). Presumably that stock returned either the next week or in another working within days. 

One fascinating working I did read about (but 1957) was empty stock, consisting mainly of Restaurant vehicles, that worked west on summer Fridays I think it was.

Phil

 

The ER stock may have been inserted into the train at Brisel having been worked down from Banbury or Swindon.

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Chris, according to "Operation Cornwall" from xPress Publishing, in 1957 it was formed as follows (carriage working numbers in brackets): [edit by chrisf].

 

The book doesn't give any more detail of the coaches listed as Dining Car and Buffet Car unfortunately.

 

My Summer 1952 STT shows the train stopping at Brent from 5.49 pm to 5.53 pm to "attach or detach Bank Engine".

 

Thanks, St Enodoc.  I have a copy of 'Operation Cornwall' but do not know it so well as its Torbay counterpart.  In the latter volume the excellent portrait of the minutiae of operations is marred by some unnecessary embroidery.  Only yesterday I rediscovered the howler regarding the Torbay Express.  The author would have us believe that in 1957 this train was formed of GW design stock except for the catering vehicles.  In fact the reverse was true.  The Torbay was first after the Cornish Riviera to receive BR Mk 1s in chocolate and cream livery but kept its GW diners until sufficient Mk 1s entered service over a year later.

 

The info in my list came from the Paddington station working document for summer 1961, cross-checked with the carriage working programme.  The latter document indicates which coaches are supposed to be BR standard and which are not.  In the entry for the 12.5 the coaches described as "dining car" are specified to have adaptors so that they can couple to Pullman gangwayed stock, ie Mk 1s.  This suggests that they are of GW design so take your pick!

 

Fascinating, isn't it?!

 

Chris

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Ah, the Empty Diners!  It left Paddington at 12.5 pm on summer Fridays  having spent the previous two hours in Platform 4 being loaded with provisions.  In 1961, and I suspect previous years, it was formed as follows:

 

Brake second for Truro

Kitchen 1st for St Ives

Kitchen 1st and 2nd dining saloon, another kitchen 1st and 2nd dining saloon, a dining car and a brake second, all for Newquay

Dining car for Plymout

 

As this is a Brent related thread I should give the time that this ensemble passed through Brent.  Sadly the nearest I can find is the passing time of 6.9 pm for Totnes.

 

Chris

Very useful info there, while I had found the equivalent working in the October 46 a June 47 working time table, I had yet to find any working details. So it pretty much was entered as every dining coach I had. At least with this (and St Endoc's) information I can make a good stab at a more accurate formation. Fortunately the data I'm working from does have the time through Bremt.

 

,.

 

My Summer 1952 STT shows the train stopping at Brent from 5.49 pm to 5.53 pm to "attach or detach Bank Engine".

Also very interesting, banking / piloting information is something I am servearly lacking at the moment, and none of the period documents I have reviewed so far have made any mention of it. As such the only trains marked as needing a second loco are expresses for which I have found photos...

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This is probably going to be unhelpful but - I have just checked the summer 1948 cwp and the 1946 and 1948 Paddington station workings and find no mention of the empty diners.  This does not mean that the working did not run for it may have been the subject of separate circulars.  They do appear in the summer 1953 instructions and subsequently.

 

Chris

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That's exactly it, not listed in the carriage document, but in the timetable...

I suppose we should be thankful as many documents are preserved as we have access to. I hate to think how hard the 2016 modeller will have it in 70 years time...

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This is probably going to be unhelpful but - I have just checked the summer 1948 cwp and the 1946 and 1948 Paddington station workings and find no mention of the empty diners.  This does not mean that the working did not run for it may have been the subject of separate circulars.  They do appear in the summer 1953 instructions and subsequently.

 

Chris

 

Regrettably it doesn't necessarily mean that they didn't run then then (although they probably didn't as it was not so long after the war).  In the mid 1960s the 'Friday diners' coming up for stocking at Paddington (in Platform 1A) were only shown on the 'Saloon List' which was basically the Paddington SMO prepared and issued equivalent of the daily passenger train notice.  It mainly covered reservations and strengthening vehicles - hence its title - but also included things like the diners up for stocking on Fridays and any bullion van workings.  The diners for stocking were a train notice job and not all the workings were shown in the WTT.

 

I presume Paddington was not alone in producing such a document among WR large stations as when I was sent down to cover a couple of vacancies at Swansea High St at the end of 1973 I immedately acquired the task of doing the 'Daily Orders' which to the clear relief of the chap I had been sent to help only took me about 10 minutes to learn how to do as it was little different from, but a lot simpler than, the Paddington Saloon List I had sometimes done 8 years previously.  

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I have just remembered that it was on here that there was a question asked about LNER coaches on the Brent route. I posted my response on ANTB yesterday.....sorry. The pic I found was also way out on date and time, being 1960. However I still remember seeing a pic of an earlier era train, in the same spot and I am sure it had a Gresley coach in the formation. Possibly even the same working that was Cardiff to Newquay?

Philth.

I bought a Greaseley Comp' brake cheap today to have a play with that awful Hornby paint finish hope to get it looking like teak rather than bit of dried horse turd.

 

B.O.D.Jitt 

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I've had a look in the WTT I am working from, it lists the restaurant car movement as a 1am departure from Plymouth for Old Oak Common

 

Now that's interesting.  In the 1961 summer WTT there is an empty stock movement from Millbay to Old Oak Common leaving at 3.50 am but so far no clues have come to light as to what train's ECS it was and what was its formation.  Could the 1961 working and the earlier one that you mention perhaps be related?

 

Chris

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Next on the research list, trying to understand the banking operations through Brent

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/114696-gwr-banking-pilot-engines-operation-brent/  

 

Yesterday while suffering the BA delays flying into Terminal 5, I produced a new front page for my Excel timetable file (which sadly cannot be uploaded).  The macro uses a sequential list of all workings, displaying the next to pass through the layout (along with the time, direction and if it stops.)  It also includes a random selection tool which will randomly pick a suitable loco.  This also includes a flag to indicate if it should be double headed, (which of course I am now looking to update.)  

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Next on the research list, trying to understand the banking operations through Brent

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/114696-gwr-banking-pilot-engines-operation-brent/

 

Yesterday while suffering the BA delays flying into Terminal 5, I produced a new front page for my Excel timetable file (which sadly cannot be uploaded).  The macro uses a sequential list of all workings, displaying the next to pass through the layout (along with the time, direction and if it stops.)  It also includes a random selection tool which will randomly pick a suitable loco.  This also includes a flag to indicate if it should be double headed, (which of course I am now looking to update.)  

That sounds very interesting Rich. Please tell us more.

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So the file basically uses a list of data containing direction, 8 cells breaking down the formation 60ft sections, along with source, destination, and details about the service.  It also includes a column categorising the service (eg express passenger, branch freight etc)

 

there are 10 separate lists which contains all the locos for each service type (duplicating where necessary), a randomiser picks a row from the respective class depending on the details in the time table.

 

Happy to send the macro enabled workbook if anyone wants a proper look.post-54-0-94627900-1473249421_thumb.png

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In the example shown, the slip coach is the last one (assuming the formation reads left to right = front to to back).

 

Would the slip coach be dropped between Plymouth & London ? (I'm doubting that it would). Therefore, would the slip coach not be added as the first coach (up), so it's the last coach for the return journey (down), when it would be 'slipped' ?

 

Stu

 

Edit - unless, of course, it didn't have the coupling / chassis strength to be part of a whole train ?

Edited by Stubby47
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So the file basically uses a list of data containing direction, 8 cells breaking down the formation 60ft sections, along with source, destination, and details about the service.  It also includes a column categorising the service (eg express passenger, branch freight etc)

 

there are 10 separate lists which contains all the locos for each service type (duplicating where necessary), a randomiser picks a row from the respective class depending on the details in the time table.

 

Happy to send the macro enabled workbook if anyone wants a proper look.attachicon.gifCapture.PNG

Yes please!

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In the example shown, the slip coach is the last one (assuming the formation reads left to right = front to to back).

 

Would the slip coach be dropped between Plymouth & London ? (I'm doubting that it would). Therefore, would the slip coach not be added as the first coach (up), so it's the last coach for the return journey (down), when it would be 'slipped' ?

 

Stu

 

Edit - unless, of course, it didn't have the coupling / chassis strength to be part of a whole train ?

dropped on the way to London (I want to say Reading, but will need to check.)

Yes please!

Will send a copy this evening
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