RRU Posted March 1, 2016 Share Posted March 1, 2016 I have had this explained to me and it makes perfect sense, but I'm sorry I can't remember! I think it's something to do with tramways having narrow flangeways 4' 7¾" on Huddersfield tramways for the same reason, to convey coal trucks. Peter Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sir douglas Posted March 1, 2016 Share Posted March 1, 2016 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_track_gauges Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockershovel Posted March 1, 2016 Share Posted March 1, 2016 From a past discussion of this topic, early coal horse tramways and steam-hauled lines seemed to use a generic gauge of something between 48" and 60" to no particular pattern (apart from the gross weight of the tubs being pretty much the same), narrow-gauge lines hauled by steam locomotives were anything between 2'8" and 3'0" and and narrow-gauge, underground lines hauled by cable, horse or electric locomotives in the 2' to 2'6" range. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold russ p Posted March 1, 2016 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted March 1, 2016 I wonder if anything survives such as a wheelset from any of these odd lines Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PhilJ W Posted March 1, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 1, 2016 There's probably a really obvious answer but re: the Glasgow tramway being a different gauge so wagons could run on their flanges, the question is "Why?" Why couldn't they run on the standard track, or on their flanges on the standard gauge track if the flange ways weren't deep enough? Surely even if the wheel tread wasn't touching the rail, but the flange was in the flange way and running on the bottom of it, they would still have been guided by the rails? What was the advantage of the different gauge and how did it work in practice? I have had this explained to me and it makes perfect sense, but I'm sorry I can't remember! I think it's something to do with tramways having narrow flangeways That was indeed the case. Most tramways used grooved rail, that is with a groove cut into the head of the rail to take the fanges of the car wheels. Of neccessity this had to be shallow (retaining strength and integrety of the rail) and the flanges had to follow suit. Railway stock has generally a lot heavier wheelsets with wider and deeper flanges hence the slightly narrower gauge so that they could run on their flanges. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junctionmad Posted March 1, 2016 Share Posted March 1, 2016 The Irish railways all had different gauges to begin with and the Irish 'standard' of 5' 3" was a compromise by taking an average of all the different gauges. It just happens to be the one 'imperial' gauge that translates into metric as a round figure (1600mm). Strangely the first railway in ireland to be built was the Dublin to Kingstown ( now Dunlaoghaire) was to standard gauge , i.e. 4'8"1/2 The origins of the gauge, was essentially the fault of letting experts decide things, in 1836 a commission was established led by the noted Scotmans , Thomas Drummond. It effectively planed the railway system for ireland, suggesting route maps, town served etc. Mysteriously it recommended a gauge of 6'2", given the only railway in existence , The D&KR was to standard gauge The Ulster Railway company then built its line south from Belfast to this recommended gauge, then strangely the newly formed Dublin and Drogheda, railway proposed to use 5'2" as opposed to 6'2" on the grounds of cost. UR complained to the board of Trade and a compromise gauge of 5'3" was decided and the UR relayed 8 miles of track to the new gauge. in 1846 and act of parliament mandated that all new railways be built to 5'3", The D&KR, was only changed in 1854 when it become part of the Dublin -Wexford Railway company from standard gauge to 5'3". Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sir douglas Posted March 1, 2016 Share Posted March 1, 2016 I wonder if anything survives such as a wheelset from any of these odd lines a blenkinsop rack not from Middleton colliery but another line built to the blenkinsop system survives i think its in the NRM collection http://www.antiquepicturecompany.co.uk/Blenkinsop's%20rack%20rails%20x72%20SP.jpg Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pH Posted March 1, 2016 Share Posted March 1, 2016 Paisley and Renfrew railway, 4'6" 4'6" was "Scotch gauge", and several other lines were built to this gauge - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/4_ft_6_in_gauge_railway Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold russ p Posted March 1, 2016 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted March 1, 2016 6'6" In Ireland that's incredible. It made me laugh a few year ago there was a picture of an Irish 071 in a magazine that had been renumbered in the UIC series. The magazine stated that this loco was passed to operate anywhere in Europe..... Err measure the distance between the wheels Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold russ p Posted March 1, 2016 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted March 1, 2016 4'6" was "Scotch gauge", and several other lines were built to this gauge - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/4_ft_6_in_gauge_railway I had no idea this was so extensive Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jawfin Posted March 1, 2016 Share Posted March 1, 2016 There is around 800km of 3' gauge railway in Ireland, operated by the Irish turf company, Bord na Móna. This gauge was used by most narrow gauge railways there. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold russ p Posted March 1, 2016 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted March 1, 2016 800km still operational? Wow Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PhilJ W Posted March 1, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 1, 2016 What really gave the impetus to a 'standard gauge' was the American Civil War. As well as a less well developed railway system the Confederacy found themselves with several different gauges whereas the Union had the majority of its lines to standard gauge. IIRC one of the few important lines that was not was from New Jersey to Chicago that was built to 6 foot gauge. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold russ p Posted March 1, 2016 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted March 1, 2016 6' gauge mainline, that must have been something Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PhilJ W Posted March 1, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 1, 2016 6' gauge mainline, that must have been something It still took two days in the 1860's to go from New Jersey to Chicago by that line but two weeks by road. Apparently a lot of the line is still in use including some stone built viaducts. I will have to seek out the copy of 'Trains' magazine that had the article about Civil War railroads. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium keefer Posted March 1, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 1, 2016 4'6" was "Scotch gauge", and several other lines were built to this gauge - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/4_ft_6_in_gauge_railway Thanks for this, I was kind of right after all re: the Angus railways The Railscot pages consulted hadn't mentioned gauge, but I see it was a mix of 4'61/2" and 5'6" (and possibly standard) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EddieB Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_track_gauges Which does not identify that the Wellingborough Iron Company railway was laid to 3'3" or metre gauge (both are quoted) - remaining at the narrow gauge railway museum at Irchester! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smiffy2 Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 The Surrey Iron Railway was 4' 2", and a short section of track still exists, though the last time I asked no-one seemed sure of precisely where. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigherb Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 The Surrey Iron Railway was 4' 2", and a short section of track still exists, though the last time I asked no-one seemed sure of precisely where. Do you mean this bit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smiffy2 Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 I don't think so, or at least not in that location - there was a short (3') section of track mounted on stone sleepers (so possibly that one before it was moved?). It started out at Wallington Library, then went to Honeywood Museum in Carshalton, then disappeared. A bit like the huge pile of stone sleepers in The Grove, Carshalton in the 70s. Was that the track that was found at Merstham? (I need to look it up, I'll do so later). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PhilJ W Posted March 3, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 3, 2016 Then there was the well known 4' 1 1/2" gauge. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigherb Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 Was that the track that was found at Merstham? (I need to look it up, I'll do so later). I believe it is both bits from the Surrey and Croydon plateways that are Reigate now. I also believe there are still some plateway rails still in Godstone Main left covered for protection. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 Then there was the well known 4' 1 1/2" gauge. Wasn't that used on the Glasgow Subway / "Clockwork Orange"? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BG John Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 Then there was the well known 4' 1 1/2" gauge. This topic is about Non Standard Gauges, but considering the number of people who model this gauge, it must be a standard one, so is irrelevant to this topic . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
br2975 Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 5'4" gauge at BNFL Chapel Cross Power Station - home to a couple of broad gauge Ruston Hornsby 48DS shunters. . http://www.irsociety.co.uk/Archives/55/Letters_55.htm . Brian R Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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