IoW light rail conversion proposed

[Mike Storey]

12 hours ago, mdvle said:

 

While I wouldn't rule that out, I would also guess the IOW has been bumped down the priority list by the change in government ministers and the all encompassing big issue that has seemingly taken over all aspects of the government, and the uncertainty from which the treasury make be reluctant to okay any expenditure for something as minor new train for a little island off the south coast.

 

Either way, as you say very unfortunate.

 

That is almost certainly true as of now. But the announcement was expected by 31 March (delayed from last year) and there haven't been any changes of transport ministers until last week!

[RichardLong]

In case anyone's interested I've got an article in the current (September 2019) issue of Modern Railways in which I speculate about possible future options for Island Line.  (There's also an offer code in the magazine for money off my book 'Ryde Rail' as well).

[caradoc]

£26 million investment for the Island Line announced, including 'new' trains !

 

https://www.southwesternrailway.com/other/news-and-media/news/2019/september/uks-oldest-train-fleet-updated-with-26m-investment-into-isle-of-wights-railway?fbclid=iwar3fsrywunwlvuq1umwhjpmenytqvc6zb6dfhvg7ewjp-wbwlraq7j9ykao

[DavidB-AU]

Surprising they are going for a full 3rd rail version of the D-Train. Given the speeds and distances, the battery EMU version would hold enough charge to do at least 3 return journeys. Keeping just short sections of 3rd rail at the main stations should allow a full charge during the turnaround time at Shanklin and a top up during the stop at Ryde Esplanade. That would allow the rest of the slidey rail to be decommissioned and removed. 

 

Cheers

David

Edited September 16, 2019 by DavidB-AU

[Zomboid]

The conductor rail isn't the part that needs attention. The substations need renewal, and aren't in the right places to charge batteries at the end of a run. New substations would need providing if they're going to be used for battery charging or regular traction, so battery power would increase rolling stock costs (and weight, hence reducing efficiency) whilst not reducing infrastructure costs appreciably.

 

Of course, whether this investment actually includes renewing the substations is another question which isn't answered in the press release.

[mdvle]

More news linked below, but first of 5 trains expected for testing on the line next summer and a new passing loop to be installed to allow 30 minute service.

 

Also mentioned is work by Network Rail on the pier but can't find anything about that.

 

https://www.countypress.co.uk/news/17903643.new-fleet-trains-isle-wight----still-distinctive-underground-style/

 

Announcement may have been forced on the government given this news from last week that the line is down to one train providing hourly service:

 

https://www.islandecho.co.uk/end-of-the-line-amended-timetable-as-island-line-down-to-just-1-train/

[mikejames]

don't hold your breath

the pictures look like vivarail 230s and there seem to be plenty of 'issues' with them.

I'm still looking for indications of when the sets for transport for wales will arrive there!

regards

mike j

[TomJ]

If there’s a passing loop at Brading will they still need the double track between Ryde and Smallbrook? And if not could it be used by the steam railway?

[John M Upton]

I will believe it when I see them being hauled off the ferry...

[St. Simon]

57 minutes ago, mikejames said:

don't hold your breath

the pictures look like vivarail 230s and there seem to be plenty of 'issues' with them.

I'm still looking for indications of when the sets for transport for wales will arrive there!

regards

mike j

 

From what I hear, the Class 230s are doing very well, with what has been described as 'Boring reliability' by a couple of people. Also, I gather they have been well received by crews and passengers.

 

Simon

[Christopher125]

17 minutes ago, St. Simon said:

 

From what I hear, the Class 230s are doing very well, with what has been described as 'Boring reliability' by a couple of people. Also, I gather they have been well received by crews and passengers.

 

Simon

 

Alas the reliability has been anything but boring, predominantly due to the diesel gensets - a 3rd rail design will hopefully be far more reliable.

[lmsforever]

What a sensible idea  pity its taking so long to happen but I suppose its par for the course nowadays  ,look forward to riding on them in the future. 

[009 micro modeller]

1 hour ago, Christopher125 said:

 

Alas the reliability has been anything but boring, predominantly due to the diesel gensets - a 3rd rail design will hopefully be far more reliable.

I thought the point was that they wouldn’t be using the third rail, since that’s life expired as well.

[Christopher125]

1 hour ago, 009 micro modeller said:

I thought the point was that they wouldn’t be using the third rail, since that’s life expired as well.

 

It certainly requires investment but if that's cheaper than the alternatives in the long term, which always seemed likely, it makes sense to keep it.

 

As can be seen below SWR have released their investment timetable, which confirms two periods of disruption next Winter, with the last 483 running in March 2021 and the new 30min frequency following in May 2021.

 

Edited September 16, 2019 by Christopher125

[009 micro modeller]

58 minutes ago, Christopher125 said:

 

It certainly requires investment but if that's cheaper than the alternatives in the long term, which always seemed likely, it makes sense to keep it.

 

I agree, I always thought keeping the electrification was better but was under the impression this wasn’t the plan. Does any of the ‘infrastructure work’ involve alterations to the tunnel to allow the new trains to run?

[PhilJ W]

1 minute ago, 009 micro modeller said:

 

I agree, I always thought keeping the electrification was better but was under the impression this wasn’t the plan. Does any of the ‘infrastructure work’ involve alterations to the tunnel to allow the new trains to run?

Apparently there is sufficient clearance for the new trains. 

[jim.snowdon]

3 minutes ago, PhilJ W said:

Apparently there is sufficient clearance for the new trains. 

But quite possibly a need to adjust the platform heights to cope with the change from tube to surface stock and maintain compliance with the requirements of the Rail Vehicle Accessibility Regulations and the Railway Group Standards.

 

Jim

[Christopher125]

3 hours ago, 009 micro modeller said:

 

I agree, I always thought keeping the electrification was better but was under the impression this wasn’t the plan. Does any of the ‘infrastructure work’ involve alterations to the tunnel to allow the new trains to run?

 

Nothing significant, if anything at all - a couple of bridges are tight but again any work should be pretty minor. It seems most of the work required will be addressing platform heights and probably modifying the depot.

[The Lurker]

I read this morning (in the Telegraph) that it would be refurbished units from the District Line that would be used.

[Ian Morgan]

Vivarail 230 units are refurbished Underground units (D78 stock built in the 1980's). The bodyshells and bogies are refurbished, but everything else is new. This is intended to work out a lot cheaper than a complete new build, allowing leasing costs to be less than half that of a new DMU.

 

It appears these new units for the IoW will become Class 484.

 

Vivarail purchased 450 D78 vehicles when they were replaced by the S Stock, so it could be that a lot of 230 variants will eventually appear around the country, and possibly further afield.

 

 

Edited September 17, 2019 by Ian Morgan

[009 micro modeller]

3 hours ago, Ian Morgan said:

It appears these new units for the IoW will become Class 484.

 Must be using the live rail at least part of the time then, if they’ve been given a 400 class number.

 

Edit: Yes, more information here (if it hasn’t already been posted): https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/onthewight.com/new-trains-coming-to-the-isle-of-wight/amp/

 

Adrian Shooter’s quote seems to confirm they will be third rail electric. However, I do wonder whether going for 2-car sets again (and apparently only 5 of them) is the right decision if there are still going to be two 4-coach trains at busy times. Perhaps somebody more knowledgeable about the current situation knows better though.

Edited September 17, 2019 by 009 micro modeller

[Hesperus]

Does the infastructure still support the 7 car trains they ran in the 70s?

 

Vivarail has plenty of intermediate coaches.  Perhaps they could become 3/6 car if demand is strong?

 

From what is written previously in this topic the 38 stock has driven a lot of folks away (though I'm determined to try it before it goes).

 

Not everyone is happy

[Christopher125]

3 hours ago, 009 micro modeller said:

 Adrian Shooter’s quote seems to confirm they will be third rail electric. However, I do wonder whether going for 2-car sets again (and apparently only 5 of them) is the right decision if there are still going to be two 4-coach trains at busy times. Perhaps somebody more knowledgeable about the current situation knows better though.

 

2-car trains are fine during the winter, can fit in the shed and yard without splitting and can easily run in pairs - 3-car sets would be very awkward operationally.

 

1 hour ago, Hesperus said:

Does the infastructure still support the 7 car trains they ran in the 70s?

 

 

The power supply isn't up to it and platform lengths would be significant constraint - Lake and Smallbrook were only built for shorter (5-car?) Standard Stock trains, and stopping positions are now some distance from the buffers at Pier Head and Shanklin.

Edited September 17, 2019 by Christopher125

[009 micro modeller]

2 minutes ago, Christopher125 said:

 

2-car trains are fine during the winter, can fit in the shed and yard without splitting and can easily run in pairs - 3-car sets would be very awkward operationally.

 

 

 

The power supply isn't up to it and platform lengths would be significant constraint - Lake and Smallbrook were only built for shorter (5-car?) Standard Stock trains, and stopping positions are now some distance from the buffers at Pier Head and Shanklin.

 

Isn’t the power supply being improved as part of the infrastructure work though? I understand that 2-car units are operationally more convenient but is 5 of them going to be enough? Obviously the relatively large class 485/486 Standard Stock fleet provided for the original electric service would not be necessary for the kind of service planned in future, but even when the 1938 stock originally entered service on the island 9 units were refurbished for Island Line.

[Hesperus]

Thats a shame.  hopefully they'll make the loop long enough to comfortably take 6 in case things pick up.