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DavidB-AU

IoW light rail conversion proposed

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5 hours ago, Mike Storey said:

 

I wonder which bit is not funded - the entire loop or the lowering of the track bed? And not funded by whom?

 

The lowering of the trackbed, a whole loop for £1m would be a tad optimistic! AIUI it's being funded by the DfT, via SWR.

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I've just come across the PIN, which gives more detail to prospective contractors and appears to confirm the details of the meeting - seems TPWS (and cab radio!) really are on the cards: http://bidstats.uk/tenders/2019/W39/711590030

 

  • Track works:  A number of interventions are planned along the extent of the Island line to accommodate the new trains and improve track ride quality. These interventions will be items such as rail replacement, closure of current jointed track, ballast replacement, tamping, track lowering at stations and minor gauging interventions. A new passing loop will be provided at brading station and platform 2 will be reopened for passenger use.
  • Civil engineering works: Civil engineering works will be carried out at the current station sites to complement track lowering and where this is not possible, the application of a new surface to the platforms to raise the platform height. There are a number of structures that require intervention such as minor bridge decking works and retaining structures.
  • Signalling works: New signalling will be provided to control the new loop at Brading station together with the provision of a new control panel at Ryde St Johns signal box. Additionally, TPWS will be provided throughout the Island line together with the upgrading of a number of point mechanisms. To support the new signalling system at Brading station, a time division multiplexor system will be installed which will also replace the current westinghouse S2 legacy system provided at Sandown.
  • Telecommunications works: A cots ethernet compatible fibre optic transmission system will be established on the Island Line to support the new signalling equipment and train radio system. This system will be compatible with VOIP systems.
  • Electrical supply works: A number of station power supplies may need upgrading as part of the works to support the new signalling and systems which will require co-ordination with local DNO operators.
Edited by Christopher125
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How does the current stock compare age-wise with the oldest regularly running stock in the world?

 

Stu

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34 minutes ago, eastworld said:

How does the current stock compare age-wise with the oldest regularly running stock in the world?

 

Does the Isle of Man count?

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59 minutes ago, eastworld said:

How does the current stock compare age-wise with the oldest regularly running stock in the world?

 

Stu

 

24 minutes ago, DavidB-AU said:

 

Does the Isle of Man count?

The oldest I-o-M stock is forty years older than the 1938 stock. Not sure if they are still running but there were some Sentinel railcars dating from c. 1930 running a cross border service between Peru and Chile into the 21st century. Though they are no longer steam powered being fitted with Volvo diesels.

Edited by PhilJ W
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Some obviously older rollingstock in regular service include Isle of Man Railway locos (the oldest in service built in 1894), Manx Electric Railway cars (oldest working built in 1893), Darjeeling Himalayan Railway (2 operational locos built in 1892), some 1910s steam locos still in service in Cuba and some metre gauge electric locos in Switzerland dating back to 1911.

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5 hours ago, Christopher125 said:

I've just come across the PIN, which gives more detail to prospective contractors and appears to confirm the details of the meeting - seems TPWS (and cab radio!) really are on the cards: http://bidstats.uk/tenders/2019/W39/711590030

 

  • Track works:  A number of interventions are planned along the extent of the Island line to accommodate the new trains and improve track ride quality. These interventions will be items such as rail replacement, closure of current jointed track, ballast replacement, tamping, track lowering at stations and minor gauging interventions. A new passing loop will be provided at brading station and platform 2 will be reopened for passenger use.
  • Civil engineering works: Civil engineering works will be carried out at the current station sites to complement track lowering and where this is not possible, the application of a new surface to the platforms to raise the platform height. There are a number of structures that require intervention such as minor bridge decking works and retaining structures.
  • Signalling works: New signalling will be provided to control the new loop at Brading station together with the provision of a new control panel at Ryde St Johns signal box. Additionally, TPWS will be provided throughout the Island line together with the upgrading of a number of point mechanisms. To support the new signalling system at Brading station, a time division multiplexor system will be installed which will also replace the current westinghouse S2 legacy system provided at Sandown.
  • Telecommunications works: A cots ethernet compatible fibre optic transmission system will be established on the Island Line to support the new signalling equipment and train radio system. This system will be compatible with VOIP systems.
  • Electrical supply works: A number of station power supplies may need upgrading as part of the works to support the new signalling and systems which will require co-ordination with local DNO operators.

 

Interesting that it does not require an upgrade to, or renewal of, the existing traction power supply (unless that is included in the final item. or is separately contracted?).

 

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1 hour ago, Mike Storey said:

 

Interesting that it does not require an upgrade to, or renewal of, the existing traction power supply (unless that is included in the final item. or is separately contracted?).

 

 

Possibly but this is a few months old so plans may have evolved - either way renewing the Rowborough substation was specifically mentioned by the programme manager at the Bus & Rail Users meeting a week or two back.

Edited by Christopher125
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1 hour ago, Mike Storey said:

 

Interesting that it does not require an upgrade to, or renewal of, the existing traction power supply (unless that is included in the final item. or is separately contracted?).

 

Are they going to keep the third rail? The replacement stock although built to run on an external power supply (four rail) has been re-engineered to operate on an internal supply either battery or diesel.

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1 hour ago, PhilJ W said:

Are they going to keep the third rail? The replacement stock although built to run on an external power supply (four rail) has been re-engineered to operate on an internal supply either battery or diesel.

 

The Vivarail Class 484 for the IOW uses external power supply only. The Vivarail Class 230 (as per Bletchley line and South Wales) uses on-board power supplies.

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On 26/01/2020 at 02:28, Christopher125 said:

 

The lowering of the trackbed, a whole loop for £1m would be a tad optimistic! AIUI it's being funded by the DfT, via SWR.

 

Apparently, looking back at a few articles, the extra £1 million "shortfall" funding is committed by the Solent Local Enterprise Partnership and the IOW Council (amongst others??), and not the DfT, specifically towards the Brading Loop (to enable regular interval services).

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On 14/08/2016 at 15:21, Foulounoux said:

Well having just come back from my first weekend on the island since 1971 some observations

 

Portsmouth fishborne by car 155£ but reduced via hotel package

Spent more time queuing at Portsmouth on Friday afternoon than the whole rest of the journey

Return was much better just traffic getting out from old Portsmouth to the m275

 

Ventnor station site is so far out of town that it's difficult to see how it would be feasible even putting aside the industrial site occupants interests

 

How much car traffic would be removed by a rail network on the island. Holidaymakers with luggage unlikely to give up the car

 

So what traffic would a revitalised network have

Islanders heading to Portsmouth or Southampton for the big shops

Mainlanders on a day out to the island

 

But would locals switch to rail when like elsewhere a lot of development has taken place out of town and away from likely stations

 

And you have to remember how close everything is and the geometry of being able to cut across the island Ryde to Yarmouth 20mins compared to Portsmouth to lymington 1hr if you are lucky

 

I would love the island to extend its network but can't see if it was my investment how I'd make a return

 

Having said that I've turned down interviews for senior positions on the island not because of the crossing but because I'd want to do it as a foot passenger and the job locations on the island weren't on bus routes

 

So here's blue sky thinking

 

Reopen what you can of the rail network

Set up a shared taxi operation using minibuses aka the Turkish dolmus which would run from each station to serve local destinations

 

Colin

 

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New to this thread, but saw Ryde to Yarmouth in 20 mins... I live 4 miles west of Newport and even without the current 'road improvements' it's 30 minutes to Ryde on average. Would that be back in 1971?

How we long for those days :-)

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On 11/05/2018 at 09:31, russ p said:

Didn't BR propose reducing the height of some 2MTs 2-6-2t for the island before going down the electric route?

These would have probably ended up being rail blue too!

Well I think the VoR gives us an idea of how that might have looked

https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.hippostcard.com%2Flisting%2Fvale-of-rheidol-railway-train-in-aberystwyth-station%2F22457429&psig=AOvVaw2V4L0hxdPRJDChWg51PsM-&ust=1581107689417000&source=images&cd=vfe&ved=0CA0QjhxqFwoTCNDBpqjjvecCFQAAAAAdAAAAABAD

Edited by The Evil Bus Driver
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On 29 January 2020 at 19:02, ejgray52 said:

New to this thread, but saw Ryde to Yarmouth in 20 mins... I live 4 miles west of Newport and even without the current 'road improvements' it's 30 minutes to Ryde on average. Would that be back in 1971?

How we long for those days :-)

 

Maybe I was lucky 

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14 hours ago, The Evil Bus Driver said:

Yes, the use of Ivatt 2-6-2T locos was considered which is why the IWSR has two of them. Luckily the drawings for conversion to air brake were located and used for the conversion some 50-odd years later!

 

As for driving Ryde-Yarmouth in 20 minutes, I know a few of the "boy racer" brigade might try it, but it's just not possible. In 1971 there were very few traffic lights on the island, the only ones in the 1960s were on the narrow bridge at Yarmouth, followed by a set in the middle of Newport. It is only with the advent of ro-ro ferries that car traffic increased and they saw the demise of the trains service too.

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17 minutes ago, roythebus said:

Yes, the use of Ivatt 2-6-2T locos was considered which is why the IWSR has two of them. Luckily the drawings for conversion to air brake were located and used for the conversion some 50-odd years later!

 

As for driving Ryde-Yarmouth in 20 minutes, I know a few of the "boy racer" brigade might try it, but it's just not possible. In 1971 there were very few traffic lights on the island, the only ones in the 1960s were on the narrow bridge at Yarmouth, followed by a set in the middle of Newport. It is only with the advent of ro-ro ferries that car traffic increased and they saw the demise of the trains service too.

I'll definitely have to come down and have a ride on the line again at some point. Last time it was a quick hop over the Solent on an Island Liner ticket, out to Smallbrook then a return trrip on the rao;way, then back to Smallbrook, to Shanklin then back to Ryde Pier for the ferry back to Portsmouth. It's nice to travel in vintage rolling stock rather than the ubiquitous mk1, although I managed that on the SWML in 2002 when I went to see a rugby match in Cardiff and there were loco hauled trains working the rugby specials. On that occasion the return journey had a mk1 in the rake so that's where I sat. Deep joy :)

Edited by The Evil Bus Driver
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46 minutes ago, roythebus said:

Yes, the use of Ivatt 2-6-2T locos was considered which is why the IWSR has two of them. Luckily the drawings for conversion to air brake were located and used for the conversion some 50-odd years later!

 

 

The problem with this was it did nothing to address the coaching stock - and that was just as life expired as the O2 locos!

 

While the Ivatts might well have just about fitted the islands loading gauge, the same was not true of the BR Mk1 suburbans (even the short length versions) and new builds were out of the question.

 

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That's quite true phil. As mentioned in other IoW threads, consideration was given for using ex Merseyside LMS EMU stock, COP stock, W&C stock, but no mention of loco-hauled stock.

 

However, the Island coaches were a lot newer than the locos. Then we had the situation a couple of years ago when the electric railway was up the creek with a train stranded at Smallbrook late in the day. The IWSR ran a steam-hauled extra hauled by one of the Austerity 0-6-0ST locos. Someone pointed out the irony of the "modern" electric train's passengers being rescued by a steam loco that was 15 years newer than the "modern" electric train! There is no road access to Smallbrook, the only way in and out is by train.

 

Edited by roythebus
typo
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One reason why the W&C stock was rejected in favour of the ex-LT stock was that none were equipped with windscreen wipers.

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3 hours ago, roythebus said:

That's quite true phil. As mentioned in other IoW threads, consideration was given for using ex Merseyside LMS EMU stock, COP stock, W&C stock, but no mention of loco-hauled stock.

 

 

The ex-Merseyside stock was considered in the early 1980s.  In the sixties there would have been no redundant Merseyside or W&C stock available.

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