Bachmann 2016 Announcements

[bart2day]

I think the manufacturers are in a Catch 22 situation, Bachmann are criticised for slow delivery, Hornby on the other hand are accused of copying others plans.

For all that in the case of Bachmann I do think that there is a sense of scepticism about what some of their announcements mean, is it literally a stake in the ground to claim rights on a subject and warn others off or is it an announcement that they really are planning to make something? Given the length of time some models have been in development it does seem that either they're just using announcements as real estate markers or alternatively that their project development process is woefully managed.

This appears a plausible explanation. I can see no other reason for the announcements coming so early in product development. As far as I know, most retailers do not take any money for preorders until the product is actually shipped so I cannot believe the early announcements are for financial reasons. I treat new Bachmann announcements not as actual models but planned projects which often may but as one earlier contributor stated, may not be followed through.

 

I still think there must be a better way of handling announcements in order to stop the prospect of two companies producing the same model while not keeping customers waiting what sometimes feels like an eternity. I do disagree that we need such long time periods to save up cash for eventual purchase. I my opinion, 12-18 months would be more than enough time for this while ensuring customers do not become disinterested in the model, if it ever gets delivered. Who knows, there might be another recession in the next couple of years and Bachmann announces it cannot proceed with a number of the announcements, (as it did with the class 222 meridian in 2011 if I remember correctly).

[40F]

I like the Dapol/Rapido/Dave Jones approach where the announcement is made and then we are kept up to date with progress and where constructive comment is taken on board by the manufacturer.

 

Are we being kept up to date with progress in all cases ?

[Legend]

Are we being kept up to date with progress in all cases ?

Maybe it's just that there is no progress in some cases. I think Bachmann announce when they've found a photo of the subject. Certainly seems the case with the Stanier 2-6-0 .

[reevesthecat]

I am keen to see the progress of the models now the R&D team has been increased threefold. Can we expect to see most of the outstanding models over the next 12-18 months. Only time will tell (and did they get all their workforce back after the Chinese New Year)?

Mark

[YesTor]

You'd wonder why they took them on then. They know their capacity and so therefore they would be pushing out other items. These two projects in any case being numerically small in comparison to those that are still outstanding.

 

Simple, prioritise low risk items that require none of Bachmann's own direct investment (and maybe with a higher profit margin), over Bachmann's own much higher risk catalogue items which do require their own direct and upfront investment.  From a business standpoint it makes perfect sense.

[Legend]

Well what makes perfect business sense is not hacking off your customers. Doing commissions as you say is a good thing, but why not allocate say 40% to commissions and 60% to your own production. It's called a business plan. Deliver your commissions and to your own customers not this ad hoc approach. That's assuming of course the issue is only R&D rather than Kader allocating limited resources to what earns most money across all their ranges .

[Ian Hargrave]

Maybe it's just that there is no progress in some cases. I think Bachmann announce when they've found a photo of the subject. Certainly seems the case with the Stanier 2-6-0 .

Does this post mean you think there is little or no progress with this particular model ? I am unclear of your drift here.

 

If that is the case then rest assured that engineering samples are in the UK ready for trial livery application......having recently handled a couple and seen for myself. No,worries there...they will be worth the wait.

[The Stationmaster]

Maybe it's just that there is no progress in some cases. I think Bachmann announce when they've found a photo of the subject. Certainly seems the case with the Stanier 2-6-0 .

 

Not the case I believe.  I understand that Bachmann, like Hornby, have a 'library' of project files and the Bachmann ones are very extensive judging by the one I have seen.  And I understand they usually pre-date announcements by a considerable time - depending on just how many files there are - although clearly research continues once development gets underway.  

 

And there's a lot more to deciding what to do next than finding a photo of the prototype as in most situations that I'm aware of it involves putting together a fully costed business plan for each model so the economic facts become part of the decision to go ahead.

[Legend]

Does this post mean you think there is little or no progress with this particular model ? I am unclear of your drift here.

If that is the case then rest assured that engineering samples are in the UK ready for trial livery application......having recently handled a couple and seen for myself. No,worries there...they will be worth the wait.

Yes but I think I'm right in saying it's two years, maybe 3, to get to this stage and it's still a year away. Yes there's progress now on this one but I think it was little more than a stake in the ground when announced.

[rembrow]

Yes but I think I'm right in saying it's two years, maybe 3, to get to this stage and it's still a year away. Yes there's progress now on this one but I think it was little more than a stake in the ground when announced.

I agree with the length of time it's taken and I agree that it is part of a system which Bachmann and other manufacturers (Dapol, Heljan) use, to put a marker down on a proposed model at a very early stage in the r&d. They believe it will ward off a competitor from deciding to produce the same prototype, however that can go spectacularly adrift, as some competitors, Hornby and Oxford in particular, announce models much later in the r&d cycle and they can and have had the same prototype, already in tooling. Anyway this is old ground, it is frustrating, however Bachmann have been doing it for years, I remember it taking more than 3 years after announcement to get the Ivatt Class 2 tank into production.

 

As far as the Stanier Mogul is concerned, there is a good chance that it will be available later this year. Bachmann are now showing decorated samples and have a target date of Aug/Sep 2016 showing, for anticipated release.

[No Decorum]

I don’t think for one moment that Bachmann wants delays. A few years ago I was all set to go to China on a Bachy trip but it was cancelled due to restructuring. Having read that Chinese workers were staging a sit-in and that feelings were running high, I took “restructuring” to mean that they were tearing the place apart. Bachmann has had problems as well as Hornby, they just haven’t been quite so widely discussed.

 

With the increase in staff and the increase in production facility which has been negotiated, I dare say that delays will lessen. We can look forward to complaints that we can’t afford al the new stuff at once!

[caradoc]

The manufacturers could adopt one of two approaches. Say that this year a manufacturer decides to make an OO scale Class 114 DMU:

 

1. They announce this immediately, but the model does not appear until 2019. Result: We get the model in 2019.

 

2. They only announce this when the model is close to actually appearing, say in 2018. Result: We get the model in 2019.

 

Either way, we still get the model, and with the first approach have longer to look forward to it !

[YesTor]

The manufacturers could adopt one of two approaches. Say that this year a manufacturer decides to make an OO scale Class 114 DMU:

 

1. They announce this immediately, but the model does not appear until 2019. Result: We get the model in 2019.

 

2. They only announce this when the model is close to actually appearing, say in 2018. Result: We get the model in 2019.

 

Either way, we still get the model, and with the first approach have longer to look forward to it !

 

Exactly!  Clearly lots of people find option #1 incredibly frustrating, while the problem with option #2 is that a second manufacturer may be simultaneously working behind-the-scenes on the very same model, only to announce at a similar time, and hence we see another case of duplication.  Not necessarily healthy.

 

Personally I have no issue with option #1 - I'm patient and rarely throw my existing toys out of the pram when my new toys are delayed.  I truly fail to understand why some people seem to create such a song and dance when their toys are late.  All I can assume is that there must be a great many incredibly highly-strung 'modellers' out there.  

 

But yes, going back to option #1, and a good example here is the Bachmann Class 90, a model I am dearly looking forward to.  Okay, so I'm guessing that it could well be a good 4 years away from hitting the shelves, but my sentiment is that at least someone is actually going to tackle a decent model of the Class 90 - something that everyone has been crying out for for so long.  And in the meantime I will quite simply get on with my life.  The Class 90 will be ready when its ready.

[DRS Crewe On A Mission]

Something I considered recently...

 

Is that generally Bachmann and Hornby announce their new ranges within the first quarter. This means that say if a loco is reinstated to traffic in a new livery or newly delivered between April and December in the same year they are generally left overlooked until the following year's announcement. Obviously this isn't the manufacturers fault because they can't predict the future and what locos will be reinstated, repainted and delivered. So their is the case of having to wait nine months until the next announcement for a chance for the loco in question to appear in the main catalogue range.

 

Not ideal at all but nothing can really be done about this. So that initial nine months waiting is really just the start of things because your waiting to see if the loco appears in next year's main catalogue range but then even if it is announced you have to wait through the whole process of it been mass produced and then released.

 

I think it's the nine to twelve months until the next main announcements that makes the whole process longer because a lot can happen with locos especially modern image ones within that time scale. Like I say nothing that can really be done about this because FOCs don't plan their locos/fleet around the model railway world and manufacturers can't predict the future so I guess it's just patience.  

 

But a lot of the time the waiting pays off because their are lots of new announcements been made every year. Not all different classes of loco, but new liveries, livery variations and some brand new tooled models. It's swings and roundabouts really but it does give you something to look forward to.

 

For me at the moment I'm looking forward to a lot of new modern image locos been released. Namely Freightliner Powerhaul 66416 and DRS Revised 66434 from Bachmann. These are due for release between now and June. It's been a few years since we last saw a Freightliner 66. I think the last one was 66546 with DCC Sound Fitted and the last DRS 66 was many years ago.

 

The majority of models are worth the wait though because the quality and finish is superb from Bachmann in my opinion. Can't fault them at all with modern image locos.

[wombatofludham]

I've developed a useful technique for dealing with any frustration that may be arising due to Bachmann's delays bringing products to market.  It might help some others although I suspect probably not many.

 

My approach is to remember these are toy trains, albeit for an adult market.  They are not access to housing, access to jobs, access to nutitious food or clean water, access to medical services, nor are they freedom from fear of war, a place of safety, freedom from natural disaster or any other of the myriad things that affect people either here in the UK or around the world.  When contextualised in this manner, whenever the Coal Tank, Stanier 2-6-0, Class 158, Class 90 or Mk2f, or anything else I'm looking forward to, arrive, it'll be a nice day compared to what could be happening.

 

Mind you it can be extremely hard to adopt that attitude every time Hornby announce yet another tedious green painted tea urn and resolutely ignore and stick two fingers up to those of us whose interests lie on the LMS side of the country or post 1965.

[ThaneofFife]

I've developed a useful technique for dealing with any frustration that may be arising due to Bachmann's delays bringing products to market.  It might help some others although I suspect probably not many.

 

My approach is to remember these are toy trains, albeit for an adult market.  They are not access to housing, access to jobs, access to nutitious food or clean water, access to medical services, nor are they freedom from fear of war, a place of safety, freedom from natural disaster or any other of the myriad things that affect people either here in the UK or around the world.  When contextualised in this manner, whenever the Coal Tank, Stanier 2-6-0, Class 158, Class 90 or Mk2f, or anything else I'm looking forward to, arrive, it'll be a nice day compared to what could be happening.

 

Mind you it can be extremely hard to adopt that attitude every time Hornby announce yet another tedious green painted tea urn and resolutely ignore and stick two fingers up to those of us whose interests lie on the LMS side of the country or post 1965.

its an odd M.O. but whatever gets you through the darkness.  not sure if there are lots of people here who ever treated the hobby as being more important than housing, food, water etc.

 

surely those things are understood by the majority and so in reaility does the very mention of them even have a place here if all it does it get in the way of or detract from what this forum is all about which is the trains and modelling and with it all the moans and groans, upsides as well as down, highs and lows?   If to get back on a topic where you might be losing your argument or not making any sense you have to move the chat onto the benefits of freedom, water, food and shelter then somethings wrong. 

[wombatofludham]

its an odd M.O. but whatever gets you through the darkness.  not sure if there are lots of people here who ever treated the hobby as being more important than housing, food, water etc.

 

surely those things are understood by the majority and so in reaility does the very mention of them even have a place here if all it does it get in the way of or detract from what this forum is all about which is the trains and modelling and with it all the moans and groans, upsides as well as down, highs and lows?   If to get back on a topic where you might be losing your argument or not making any sense you have to move the chat onto the benefits of freedom, water, food and shelter then somethings wrong. 

 

Judging by some of the comments on this forum about how the delays in new items coming to market are "affecting" some posters, I felt some people really could do with an injection of reality and get a sense of perspective.

 

Frankly I couldn't give a fig about the delays, I was being tongue in cheek.  Everything will come out eventually but I refuse to get upset by the delays.

[Ozexpatriate]

I am keen to see the progress of the models now the R&D team has been increased threefold. Can we expect to see most of the outstanding models over the next 12-18 months.

Having received my Bachmann Collectors' Club magazine recently it is nice to see that CADs exist for the SECR coaches and there is progress on the Webb coal tank. I think this is evidence that the R&D team is now starting to produce.

 

Of course people have seen the 3D printed version of the 009 Baldwin engine and the Thompson teak coaches from recent shows as well. 

 

Then there is the Bachmann Collectors' Club members day coming up. There is usually another announcement at this event as well.

 

Things are still way behind most people's expectations, but recently there is much more evident progress than there had been.

[Ozexpatriate]

... yet another tedious green painted tea urn ...

Oi! Those are 'proper' engines.

 

I noted particularly that this year's 2016/17 Bachmann catalogue has substantially more LMS locomotives than any other of the grouping companies, as does BR(MR). This is consistent with last year as well.

 

For several years I was surprised how relatively under-served LMS fans were, though these things do tend to be cyclical.

[Budgie]

I would suggest they went ahead as it would mean guaranteed profit for Bachmann. The speculative investment in making their own range can easily follow after. The nature of our hobby is that the delay will probably not mean reduced sales as we will still purchase when the items are eventually available

Except that none of us is getting any younger, and for some of us we may stop getting older before the eagerly-awaited model(s) are released, resulting in the loss of some sales.

[Ian Hargrave]

Except that none of us is getting any younger, and for some of us we may stop getting older before the eagerly-awaited model(s) are released, resulting in the loss of some sales.

Delicately expressed

[adb968008]

Except that none of us is getting any younger, and for some of us we may stop getting older before the eagerly-awaited model(s) are released, resulting in the loss of some sales.

I recently ordered a sold out limited edition from a shop, who told me the only reason I could be accommodated was because the previous buyer had downsized to a wooden sub floor location and was not going to return to collect the item.

[Dunsignalling]

The manufacturers could adopt one of two approaches. Say that this year a manufacturer decides to make an OO scale Class 114 DMU:

 

1. They announce this immediately, but the model does not appear until 2019. Result: We get the model in 2019.

 

2. They only announce this when the model is close to actually appearing, say in 2018. Result: We get the model in 2019.

 

Either way, we still get the model, and with the first approach have longer to look forward to it !

I agree with nearly all of that but I still get this nagging, pedantic feeling that things included in a catalogue dated 2016/7 really ought to turn up in 2016 or 2017.

 

John

 

PS. It needs to be a Class 120 rather than a 114. Told you I didn't agree with all of your post.

[bart2day]

I agree with nearly all of that but I still get this nagging, pedantic feeling that things included in a catalogue dated 2016/7 really ought to turn up in 2016 or 2017.

 

John

Exactly. They shouldn't really call it the 2016/17 catalogue if the items won't be available in that timeframe. I can't think of any other industry/company who would do this. I do find it incredible that the announcements for some of the yet to be delivered models are so old that one has to consult catalogues from 2/3 years ago to remember when they were announced.

 

I fail to see how one can be accused of not having patience at having to wait 4/5 years for some models. I like the feeling of anticipation as much as the next guy but anticipating something for so many years can sometimes by the end feel like the air being sucked out of a balloon. Any of the contributors on here who claim they don't mind must have the patience of a Saint. Any number of things could happen in that time as a couple of others have mentioned.

[40F]

Maybe it's just that there is no progress in some cases. I think Bachmann announce when they've found a photo of the subject. Certainly seems the case with the Stanier 2-6-0 .

 

 

I think you will just a little more research is done far than just finding a photo and saying we will do this