Assistance on redesigning a landscape / tell me what this shape is?!?

[MikeHohn]

I can understand your reluctance to start modifying a working layout built by another person. I dislike mucking around with electrics on my own layout.

 

You might want to buy a couple sections of track and a set of points or two, set them up, do some wiring, and learn how it all works. Perhaps build up some confidence as well as competency. I would look for a book or magazine article that recommends the right products for DCC.

[mightbe]

I imagine some well-meaning person simply overwhelmed you with unnecessary information at some point. It happens--it's easy to get confused. 

 

There's really no such thing as a DCC turnout--that's marketing and bad information. Switches can be controlled using DCC and/or have DCC running through the rails. You just have to make sure that neither polarity nor current are dependent on the blades. Sadly, this concept is completely lost on many makers of RTR track.  Many turnouts are designed to be thrown together carelessly, but provide obstacles for the more careful modeller (i.e., one who might use turnout machines, DCC, power busses, proper wiring, etc). Very few actually use DCC to control the switches--it's a lot of extra cost and bother for relatively little advantage (and would actually be a disadvantage if track and turnout feeds went to the same power source! In the case of a short you wouldn't be able to throw the point to stop the short).

 

Personally, I think what you have is next to useless and unnecessarily complicated--sell it on to someone who doesn't know better or has a use for the (inferior) track.

 

I say set up a small plank with Peco Streamline turnouts and build confidence and competence. It's actually far simpler to achieve than you think. You won't regret doing it yourself.

 

Quentin

[wagonbasher]

I would suggest the following;

 

Park the train set for now. Get a piece of board.. Maybe 4 foot x 2 foot piece or ply wood Buy yourself a point and some set track and a packet of track pins. For control you could get a second hand analogue controller from a swop meet ( they almost give them away).

 

You may get the track from a swop meet as well but I would recommend new on this first occasion

 

Then just play - lay it, relay it, try curves.. You can sit it a kitchen worktop or the dinning room table.

 

You are showing the rather bizarre layout you have acquired too much respect. Once you have had a go you will realise this is reasonably easy stuff. Use your test piece to improve your skills, get another point and try a cross over. Try flexitrack (you will need a razor saw to cut it)

 

Andy

[58herbie]

Can you show the underside of the layout you have so people can determine how its wired up?

Im with others though. Park the purchased layout up or take it up carefully and reuse what you can. People here will help you as much as possible. The best way to learn is to do it yourself.

 

Jon

[Cardinal Richtea]

You are obviously seriously confused by a lot of things - so the advice of go to a club and learn is very good advice. We won't be able to teach you all you need here - and there are so many various opinions that the essential will get lost in the arguments and detail.

 

The difference between DC and DCC is that DC uses direct current to the rails, DCC uses shaped alternating current on which it superimposes the DCC commands which the decoders are "listening" for.  There may be decoders in point motors and other accessories as well as in the locomotives. In DCC the loco keeps obeying the command it last got until a new one arrives - so if you tell loco 6 to move forward it will keep doing that until it falls off the track, hits something or you send another command.

 

All layouts need good electricity supplies to the rails - so you usually need more than just one feed on anything more complex than a simple circle.  In DC you often have isolating sections which you can deliberately switch off (say) to hold a train/loco in a loop or siding whilst you control another one. For DCC you need to ensure a good feed to all tracks - hence the idea of lots of track feeds. Points and rails are the same for each - DC and DCC.  Points can be isolating or non isolating.  The isolating kind mean that in DC if you change a point away from a dead-end siding there is no power into that siding. That doesn't matter in DCC provided you wire a feed to all sidings (since when you tell a loco to stop it stays there until you tell it to move again).

 

You will hear lots of comments about making points good for DCC - you don't need to, I don't others do.  What you do need to do is ensure that all bits of track have a good feed to them.

 

If you have DC locos (which you say you do) attach a simple controller and run some trains - you'll soon find out whether the points are isolating or not.

 

I apologise if my questions are exasperating, and I do appreciate everyone who has chipped in with advice. Actually, I have been attending a railway club once a week (beyond that would not be feasible due to my personal situation) in central london where they are conducting a series of workshops on constructing layouts. I do ask others for advice in the break, but there is a limit to the amount of information that can be passed down in this manner. I think I am slowly making progress. Currently I am stripping the layout of buildings and wooden mounts, and I am playing a little bit with DCC engines - mainly forward / back and sounds.

[Cardinal Richtea]

I imagine some well-meaning person simply overwhelmed you with unnecessary information at some point. It happens--it's easy to get confused. 

 

There's really no such thing as a DCC turnout--that's marketing and bad information. Switches can be controlled using DCC and/or have DCC running through the rails. You just have to make sure that neither polarity nor current are dependent on the blades. Sadly, this concept is completely lost on many makers of RTR track.  Many turnouts are designed to be thrown together carelessly, but provide obstacles for the more careful modeller (i.e., one who might use turnout machines, DCC, power busses, proper wiring, etc). Very few actually use DCC to control the switches--it's a lot of extra cost and bother for relatively little advantage (and would actually be a disadvantage if track and turnout feeds went to the same power source! In the case of a short you wouldn't be able to throw the point to stop the short).

 

Personally, I think what you have is next to useless and unnecessarily complicated--sell it on to someone who doesn't know better or has a use for the (inferior) track.

 

I say set up a small plank with Peco Streamline turnouts and build confidence and competence. It's actually far simpler to achieve than you think. You won't regret doing it yourself.

 

Quentin

Thanks... I think your right. I was playing around on my own the other night and basic stuff on DCC did not appear to be as complicated as I first thought when reading on this topic. Can I ask what you think is 'inferior' on my setup? The layout or the Bachmann track itself? I will probably rejigg it to a degree as David suggested with a few more Bachamm E-Z track pieces (although not too much more as I was taken aback by how expensive it is).

[Cardinal Richtea]

Can you show the underside of the layout you have so people can determine how its wired up?

Im with others though. Park the purchased layout up or take it up carefully and reuse what you can. People here will help you as much as possible. The best way to learn is to do it yourself.

 

Jon

Yes, will do when I get the chance. From my efforts at clearing up the existing scenery I am thinking that it is rather less complex than I thought it was......

[mightbe]

Can I ask what you think is 'inferior' on my setup? The layout or the Bachmann track itself? 

 

Both. The layout, certainly.

 

But I meant the track itself...it's quite expensive but not particularly refined. I've never been impressed with how poorly things run through the turnouts. Also, the ways lots of people secure it to boards will destroy it if you try to remove it. The connections within the base break. Typically liquid nails or wood glue is used. You might find that it's water soluble...but then again that might also get into the built-in electrics, motors etc. It's a problem you'd never have with a Tortoise or something.

 

Peco Streamline (code 75) is somewhat more refined, cheaper IIRC, and can be lifted and re-used without much fuss. It's also slightly less nerve-racking to solder--you can always cut flex and slide ties out of the way

 

Quentin

[ejstubbs]

There's really no such thing as a DCC turnout--that's marketing and bad information.

 

The Bachmann E-Z Track turnouts can be bought with a DCC decoder built-in eg this one.  It doesn't seem wholly outrageous or misleading to use the term "DCC turnout" for such a product, at least once you know what they're getting at.

[mightbe]

^Ah, yes, you're right. 

 

And what a ridiculous product they are too. Built-in motors are a bad enough idea. Running the motors from the track current and then requiring that the layout be DCC is 3 degrees of thoughtlessness (4 if you consider that they only work within the range). One of the most useless products I've seen.

 

I can't imagine why anyone would want to use them on a proper layout. I guess they're fine if you want something under the Christmas tree, but other than that..Nope. 

[njee20]

They are manually operated, not motorised, if that makes a difference.

This seems pivotal to me. If they're manually operated they're not DCC (well they may have a decoder but you're not using it) or anything. So you really are back to being able to shuffle bits around without repercussions. There's no fancy wiring or anything you'll disturb. As long as you can get the track up that is!

 

I'd just have a go. Paying someone is unnecessary, try it. What's the worst that happens?!