W.R. Early 1980s Freight Photos - South Wales Severn Tunnel Junction to Pantyffynnon.

[Rivercider]

This thread is fascinating,  but I am struggling a bit with the layout of STJ.  Can anyone point me in the direction of a diagram or map showing the various yards?

 

Cheers

 

Alastair

By chance when I was checking something before making one of the earlier posts I stumbled upon this

a Signalling Notice from 1960. Now I know much changed after that, not least the MAS resignalling

but I think the general arrangement of the yards was the same. Perhaps Mike or another member could confirm?

 

edit -

The Up Reception Sidings also known as the Undy Yard

The Up Storage Sidings also known as the Bristol Yard

The up side Cripple Sidings became the site of the Diesel Loco Depot.

The Yard Masters Office was the site of the Area Managers Office.

 

The bridges I took the photos from were at the west end of the station, and at the west end of the Up Reception Sidings

(at the left end of the map)

 

http://signallingnotices.org.uk/scans//1582/1960%20-%20W%20833%20Magor-Undy%20and%20Severn%20Tunnel%20West.pdf

 

cheers

Edited March 31, 2016 by Rivercider

[jonny777]

Blimey I don't remember East Usk looking like that, where did those weeds come from, and what happened to the signal box?

Next you will be telling me that Somerton Park no longer exists!

 

cheers

 

 

Somerton Park, now there is a name from the past.

 

Believe it or not, the last time I saw Newport County play there, they had a decent looking striker called John Aldridge.

 

I wonder what happened to him?

[Rivercider]

Now here are a couple of photos from 1986 previously posted on other threads,

one of a class 9 partly fitted train which was pretty rare by this date, and another of a block load of scrap in MDVs.

 

By 1986 the working of partly fitted or unfitted trains was prohibited unless by special authorisation on parts of the Western Region, but was still common in South Wales particularly in the west for export coal through Swansea Docks.

37197 heads 9A62 to Llanwern away from Severn Tunnel Junction consisting of a selection of steel carriers,

air braked vehicles type BAA BBA BAA behind the loco and a vacuum braked vehicle with a damaged hood towards the rear,

 25/9/86. 

 

We are going to be seeing a lot of 21t mineral wagons on our journey through South Wales, normally used for carrying coal, but by 1986 some were in use on scrap traffic.

47112 had been a Cardiff Canton loco but then spent a spell at Stratford and acquired a silver roof,

by 1986 it was again a Canton loco and is seen passing Undy Yard with 21t minerals of scrap for Cardiff Tidal.

Behind in Undy Yard is the Oakdale - Scunthorpe MGR set as well as a long rake of air braked vans, 25/9/86

 

cheers 

Edited March 31, 2016 by Rivercider

[The Stationmaster]

By chance when I was checking something before making one of the earlier posts I stumbled upon this

a Signalling Notice from 1960. Now I know much changed after that, not least the MAS resignalling

but I think the general arrangement of the yards was the same. Perhaps Mike or another member could confirm?

 

edit -

The Up Reception Sidings also known as the Undy Yard

The Up Storage Sidings also known as the Bristol Yard

The up side Cripple Sidings became the site of the Diesel Loco Depot.

The Yard Masters Office was the site of the Area Managers Office.

 

The bridges I took the photos from were at the west end of the station, and at the west end of the Up Reception Sidings

(at the left end of the map)

 

http://signallingnotices.org.uk/scans//1582/1960%20-%20W%20833%20Magor-Undy%20and%20Severn%20Tunnel%20West.pdf

 

cheers

 

Mostly correct Kevin but I think the diesel servicing shed was actually on the site of the goods shed/mileage siding.

 

Incidentally the last surviving Class 9 working in South Wales was an occasional flow of coal to Swansea Docks which was still running in the early 1990s.  It was one of three working (one on the former LMR and another in the north east) which caused us to express dissatisfaction when it was proposed that Class 9 be swiped for Eurostars.  It would have made a bit more sense to us of the full reasons had been explained but we were simply told it was 'needed for Eurostar' and although we (as Trainload Freight Ops) objected basically we had no choice - and carried on using Class 9 under Special instructions.

Edited March 31, 2016 by The Stationmaster

[jonny777]

Now here are a couple of photos from 1986 previously posted on other threads,

one of a class 9 partly fitted train which was pretty rare by this date, and another of a block load of scrap in MDVs.

 

By 1986 the working of partly fitted or unfitted trains was prohibited unless by special authorisation on parts of the Western Region, but was still common in South Wales particularly in the west for export coal through Swansea Docks.

scan0102.jpg

37197 heads 9A62 to Llanwern away from Severn Tunnel Junction consisting of a selection of steel carriers,

air braked vehicles type BAA BBA BAA behind the loco and a vacuum braked vehicle with a damaged hood towards the rear,

 25/9/86. 

 

We are going to be seeing a lot of 21t mineral wagons on our journey through South Wales, normally used for carrying coal, but by 1986 some were in use on scrap traffic.

scan0030a.jpg

47112 had been a Cardiff Canton loco but then spent a spell at Stratford and acquired a silver roof,

by 1986 it was again a Canton loco and is seen passing Undy Yard with 21t minerals of scrap for Cardiff Tidal.

Behind in Undy Yard is the Oakdale - Scunthorpe MGR set as well as a long rake of air braked vans, 25/9/86

 

cheers 

 

 

Some of those vans worked to Caerwent, and I remember seeing them being shunted across the bridge over the M4 on occasions when driving past.

 

In those sensitive days however, a perusal of the relevant OS map would show no overbridge, no railway and often no buildings at that location.

[br2975]

Some of those vans worked to Caerwent, and I remember seeing them being shunted across the bridge over the M4 on occasions when driving past.

 

In those sensitive days however, a perusal of the relevant OS map would show no overbridge, no railway and often no buildings at that location.

In a former life I was sat in the messroom having my grub at 2:00am one morning, when someone elses flashing lights alerted us.

.

Outside, a convoy of US Army 6x6 trucks and their provost 4x4 escorts rumbled through th Ely area of Cardiff conveying munitions to Caerwent, where the US also had a PX.

.

US munitions would be offloaded in Barry Roads, then brought into the docks by lighter, for onward road transport.

.

This was pre Greenham Common.

.

Brian R

[Rivercider]

Some of those vans worked to Caerwent, and I remember seeing them being shunted across the bridge over the M4 on occasions when driving past.

 

In those sensitive days however, a perusal of the relevant OS map would show no overbridge, no railway and often no buildings at that location.

Ah, now you have jogged my memory weren't there trains between Caerwent and Bramley (on the Reading - Basingstoke route)

possibly when one or other location was being de-commisioned?

 

cheers

[The Stationmaster]

Ah, now you have jogged my memory weren't there trains between Caerwent and Bramley (on the Reading - Basingstoke route)

possibly when one or other location was being de-commisioned?

 

cheers

 

I'm not sure.  Bramley was an ordnance depot but I don't think held much apart from small arms ammo and explosives, i.e. no artillery ammo, although i can't be certain on that beyond saying that is all I ever saw there (an interesting day out with the school CCF).

 

The biggest railborne move I'm aware of was back in the late 1960s when De Gaulle kicked out of France the US bases and huge quantities of stuff came in via Tilbury to be railed to Welford Park although a lot of that was definitely USAF material.  Quite interesting to see a trainload of napalm bombs standing on the Up Main Through Line at Reading in the evening peak waiting a path to Newbury. 

[Rivercider]

Here are three more views from the Undy end of Severn Tunnel Junction before we start heading west.

They are different types of traffic, though I have no details of these workings all would have been fairly typical

of the sort of trains seen passing each week day. 

 

First an unidentified westbound service at around 10.00 in the morning.

45124 hauls 47462 dead in tow at the head of a train conveying two air braked vans and, I think, a loaded Freightliner set, 16/6/83

 

Now an short up train arriving at Undy Yard which would fit on most layouts.

37268 runs into the yard with three empty HBA air brake hoppers,

I suspect this train is the return empties from the Gwent Coal Depot at Newport Dock Street, 16/6/83.

 

Lastly a westbound ballast train which had just departed from the yard at Severn Tunnel Junction. 

Although there were no class 25s allocated to the Western Region by this time they were still regularly seen.

25257 and 25164 I think were both Crewe Diesel allocated locos and are accelerating away westwards

with a shark plough van and dogfish ballast hoppers probably loaded at nearby Tidenham Quarry, 16/6/83

 

cheers

[Rivercider]

Two more photos taken on the same day in June 1983.

I had started the day as usual if I was going to South Wales by catching the 06.42 Weston-super-Mare to Cardiff service. This was booked to be loco hauled, and this day it was 45131, (this was the diagram that sometimes saw a Peak at Paddington as the next working was Cardiff to Paddington). I then walked from Severn Tunnel Junction to Undy and then Magor taking photos from various bridges along the way. My memory about which bridge each photo was taken from is hazy as I have not been back since 1986.

 

The next two photos are class 37s on coal trains, as you may expect we will be seeing a lot more along the way.

 

First 37268 seen earlier arriving at Undy Yard with empty air braked coal hoppers now heads back west with vacuum braked empties.

The driver of 37268 is accelerating away with a train of mixed coal empties, two 16t mins, five 21t hoppers and a rake of 21t mins, 16/6/83  

 

In contrast some time later an empty MGR set headed west.

37180 Sir Dyfed/County of Dyfed passes Magor with an MGR set from Severn Tunnel Junction for Oakdale colliery, 16/6/83

 

cheers

[griffgriff]

I'm not sure.  Bramley was an ordnance depot but I don't think held much apart from small arms ammo and explosives, i.e. no artillery ammo, although i can't be certain on that beyond saying that is all I ever saw there (an interesting day out with the school CCF).

 

The biggest railborne move I'm aware of was back in the late 1960s when De Gaulle kicked out of France the US bases and huge quantities of stuff came in via Tilbury to be railed to Welford Park although a lot of that was definitely USAF material.  Quite interesting to see a trainload of napalm bombs standing on the Up Main Through Line at Reading in the evening peak waiting a path to Newbury. 

You saw them but more likely drop tanks. They look very similar. The reason why I question napalm is that by the time of the US withdrawal the role of aircraft operating from French soil was mainly rece or transport. Munitions would have probably gone east in any case. I may be wrong and you were there but I wouldn't want anyone to think they can stick a load of napalm behind a Hymek.

 

Griff

[The Stationmaster]

You saw them but more likely drop tanks. They look very similar. The reason why I question napalm is that by the time of the US withdrawal the role of aircraft operating from French soil was mainly rece or transport. Munitions would have probably gone east in any case. I may be wrong and you were there but I wouldn't want anyone to think they can stick a load of napalm behind a Hymek.

 

Griff

 

Hymek??? - D63XX usually (and always on the branch of course).  And they were definitely explosives - some were napalm and the rest was high explosive, they were consigned in the relevant military explosive categories and the (numerous) barrier wagons were marshalled in pairs throughout the train to ensure separation between the permitted quantities of explosive allowed to be marshalled together.    As it was at about going home time - if the train was on time - we used to troop over to the station just to look at that train before heading home.

 

If they had been drop tanks they would have not required the barrier wagons and they wouldn't have carried explosives labelling on the wagons (and our Loads Inspector might have not gone round with quite such worried looks on his face when the traffic was being arranged).

[AberdeenBill]

Hymek??? - D63XX usually (and always on the branch of course).  And they were definitely explosives - some were napalm and the rest was high explosive, they were consigned in the relevant military explosive categories and the (numerous) barrier wagons were marshalled in pairs throughout the train to ensure separation between the permitted quantities of explosive allowed to be marshalled together.    As it was at about going home time - if the train was on time - we used to troop over to the station just to look at that train before heading home.

 

If they had been drop tanks they would have not required the barrier wagons and they wouldn't have carried explosives labelling on the wagons (and our Loads Inspector might have not gone round with quite such worried looks on his face when the traffic was being arranged).

 

What type of vans were used (and what barriers?) and what did an explosives label look like?

 

Thanks,

Bill

[Fat Controller]

What type of vans were used (and what barriers?) and what did an explosives label look like?

 

Thanks,

Bill

The photos I've seen of the Welford branch trains (in articles by Dibber 25, mainly) have shown groups of four 13t opens, separated by a similar number of 12t vans. Neither vans nor opens were anything but run-of-the-mill examples of the type.

These days, the 'Explosives' label would be an orange diamond bearing a pictogram of an explosion, that you might be able to read from a reasonable distance. I think that, in the period Mike is describing, the label would simply be the ordinary wagon weigh-bill, but with 'EXPLOSIVES' printed in red at the top. There was possibly an imprecation to 'SHUNT WITH CARE' elsewhere on the label, just in case the shunter was tempted to try a spot of 'fly-shunting'. I don't remember seeing any more conspicuous labelling.

[cheesysmith]

That photo of 37268, does it have oval buffers at one end and round at the other? And still fitted with full buffer beam skirts.

[Rivercider]

That photo of 37268, does it have oval buffers at one end and round at the other? And still fitted with full buffer beam skirts.

I had not noticed that before but you are quite correct, both pictures were taken the same day within a few hours of each other,

 

cheers

[The Stationmaster]

The photos I've seen of the Welford branch trains (in articles by Dibber 25, mainly) have shown groups of four 13t opens, separated by a similar number of 12t vans. Neither vans nor opens were anything but run-of-the-mill examples of the type.

These days, the 'Explosives' label would be an orange diamond bearing a pictogram of an explosion, that you might be able to read from a reasonable distance. I think that, in the period Mike is describing, the label would simply be the ordinary wagon weigh-bill, but with 'EXPLOSIVES' printed in red at the top. There was possibly an imprecation to 'SHUNT WITH CARE' elsewhere on the label, just in case the shunter was tempted to try a spot of 'fly-shunting'. I don't remember seeing any more conspicuous labelling.

 

Generally 'yes' - the bombs were all loaded in ordinary open wagons with Vanfits used as barrier wagons.

 

At that time the only labelling would have been an 'Explosives' label on the wagon's label clip although they were larger than a standard wagon label - I might have one somewhere and will see if I can find and scan it.  As far as I can recall - and it's nearly 50 years ago - there were no other labels of any sort on the wagons.

[Rivercider]

Now a final pair of photos from the same day in 1983 of class 37 locos again taken from bridges in the Undy area.

Heading west from Severn Tunnel Junction there are four running lines as far as Cardiff, initially on leaving Severn Tunnel Junction the Up and Down Main lines are in the middle flanked by the Up Relief on the north side and the Down Relief on the south side.

 

Heading west on the Down Relief we see another class 9 partly fitted train.

37304 is in charge of a very mixed formation, 9A75 from Severn Tunnel Junction to A D Junction.

Six 21t MDVs are followed by a pair of engineers wagons probably loaded with spoil for Maesglas Tip,

then a block of empty steel carriers type BAA or BBA, then some loaded 21t coal hoppers, 16/6/83.  

 

Now a photo that has previously been posted on the Passing Trains thread, two air braked services both hauled by class 37 locos.

Held at a signal on the Up Relief is 37135 with an air braked working from Radyr to Severn Tunnel Junction, behind the loco are three OCAs and an OBA (thanks Paul), which appear to be loaded with bricks, was there a flow of bricks from Aberdare or is my memory playing tricks?  Meanwhile 37285 heads westwards on the Down Main with another air braked working, 16/6/83.

 

cheers

Edited April 4, 2016 by Rivercider

[hmrspaul]

 

Held at a signal on the Up Relief is 37135 with an air braked working from Radyr to Severn Tunnel Junction, behind the loco are three OCAs and possibly a OAA? which appear to be loaded with bricks, was there a flow of bricks from Aberdare or is my memory playing tricks?  Meanwhile 37285 heads westwards on the Down Main with another air braked working, 16/6/83.

 

cheers

OBA not OAA - raised end and door stops visible.

 

Paul

[Swindon 123]

Now a final pair of photos from the same day in 1983 of class 37 locos again taken from bridges in the Undy area.

Heading west from Severn Tunnel Junction there are four running lines as far as Cardiff, initially on leaving Severn Tunnel Junction the Up and Down Main lines are in the middle flanked by the Up Relief on the north side and the Down Relief on the south side.

 

Heading west on the Down Relief we see another class 9 partly fitted train.

Undy 37304 001 a.jpg

37304 is in charge of a very mixed formation, 9A75 from Severn Tunnel Junction to A D Junction.

Six 21t MDVs are followed by a pair of engineers wagons probably loaded with spoil for Maesglas Tip,

then a block of empty steel carriers type BAA or BBA, then some loaded 21t coal hoppers, 16/6/83.  

 

 

 

cheers

Nice photo of 37304. I'd forgotten about the differential speed restriction on the main lines to the left of the 37. There was another for the Up Main just Newport side of the west end connection for Llanwern. Didn't see the cut out speed boards like that often. There was a few of them on the Up line North of Church Stretton for freight trains dropping down the bank to Dorrington. In those cases to lower (Top) speed was 35MPH with various other speeds below for the passengers trains.

 

Paul J.

[Rivercider]

We now move west to Llanwern, on the way the arrangement of the four lines changes. At Bishton the Up Relief line is carried over the Up Main and Down Main lines by a flyover, and from there westwards to Cardiff Central the relief lines are paired to the south of the main lines. This is convenient as the major freight locations at Llanwern, East Usk, Newport Docks, A D Jn Yard, Pengam and Cardiff Tidal are all to the south of the line.

 

Llanwern Works is a huge site and is accessed by two double junctions at Llanwern Works East Connection at 153m.05ch and Llanwern Works West Connection at 156m.03ch from Paddington.

In the early 1980s this stretch of the South Wales main line was very busy with freight traffic, much of the coal for Llanwern as well as the iron ore originated in South Wales and entered Llanwern via the West Connection.

A down Freightliner service heads westwards past Llanwern Works West Connection on the Down Main behind 46016, 10/2/82.

 

On the Down Relief 37240 and brake van also heads west and is about to pass the junction, the lines into the works can be seen on the right, 10/2/82

 

cheers

[Rivercider]

Now a couple of views looking towards the works from Llanwern Works West Connection.

 

37294 exits the works heading west with eight bogie steel carriers loaded with coil, 10/2/82

 

The iron ore trains from Port Talbot to Llanwern had been handled by Cardiff Cantons class 56 fleet since 1979,

there is an informative thread here

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/95085-triple-headed-class-37s-on-iron-ore/  

 

56038 Western Mail and 56037 Richard Trevithick head into Llanwern with a loaded set of PTAs,

they will be taking the right hand of the three tracks to the iron ore tippler which is at the nearest (west) end

of the works off to the right of this view, 10/2/82

 

cheers

[Rivercider]

Nice photo of 37304. I'd forgotten about the differential speed restriction on the main lines to the left of the 37. There was another for the Up Main just Newport side of the west end connection for Llanwern. Didn't see the cut out speed boards like that often. There was a few of them on the Up line North of Church Stretton for freight trains dropping down the bank to Dorrington. In those cases to lower (Top) speed was 35MPH with various other speeds below for the passengers trains.

 

Paul J.

Thanks

 

I think I can see part of that speed board in one of my Llanwern photos, I see in the 1986 Sectional Appendix it was 60 over 75

(HSTs only may travel at 90mph)

 

cheers

[Rivercider]

Llanwern was such a busy location that on the introduction of TOPS there was a TOPS office in the steelworks,

it lasted until at least 1978 but became one of the early office closures.

Most traffic to and from the works passed via the West Connection and such were the traffic levels it was not unkown for trains to be held on the relief lines awaiting acceptance into the works.

 

On a dull february day in 1982 37233 waits on the Up Relief with a train of coal for the steelworks loaded in MDVs, as 37240 hurries past with a train of house coal  loaded in a mix of 21t hoppers, 21t minerals and 16t minerals on its way to Severn Tunnel Junction,  10/2/82

 

37233 still waits at the signal and is now passed by 31304 returning from Ebbw Vale BSC tinplate works with loaded VCAs of tinplate and empty  coil carriers, 10/2/82

 

cheers 

Edited April 28, 2016 by Rivercider

[Rivercider]

I do not normally contribute to wishlisting threads on RMweb, but if I was modelling South Wales at any time from the 1960s through to the mid 1980s I would certainly be asking for 21t minerals in both unfitted and vacuum braked varieties. 

Earlier on that day I had already seen a couple of trains waiting acceptance into Llanwern including another train load of coal in 21t minerals. 

 

 

37204 held waiting to enter Llanwern was a Bath Road allocated loco in 1982, while 47016 passing on the Up Main with a train of tanks was a Stratford loco, 10/2/82. 

 

Coal for Llanwern came from a variety of collieries including those in the Western Valleys and opencast sites in South Wales, in the early 1980s it was mostly loaded in MDVs.

Most loaded coal trains for Llanwern conveyed around 30 MDVs but 37204 which is now on the move to the steelworks appears to have about 40 of them in tow, 10/2/82,

 

cheers