Invernevis based on Fort William in N Gauge

[David41283]

10 hours ago, Robert Shrives said:

Hi 

It might be a bit late in the but will the B&B loop fit into any of the other bases - getting best of worlds? 

Robert 

 

 

You read my mind - I have had a go at a few hybrids in pursuit of my ideal coupling! None quite fit however, and this would double the cost per coupling.

 

I haven't given up on the BB's, some of their features I prefer to the other designs. I've made 5 or 6 now and I think they're getting more consistent. That said I find they require the most precision in terms of height and uniformity in order to work when compared to the DG and MBD which are a bit more forgiving.

[David41283]

For interest here is a comparison photo:

 

 

From left to right.

1. DG coupling (an early one with a wonky wire loop!)

2. MBD latch end

3. MBD loop end.

4. B&B coupling.

 

In this photo the B&B has an unfair advantage, as it is pre-coloured, but I do feel it looks as discreet as the DG, the MBD loop is a bit bigger than both.

 

Overall the DG is the simplest to put together and I think the most pragmatic and forgiving in use. I can see why it seems to be the most popular as their simplicity means there is scope for flexibility. 

 

I guess this is "horses for courses" to a certain degree. Each type has it's supporters and detractors, each design has it's strengths and weaknesses.

 

If I had any knowledge of CAD or product design I would be taking the best features of each and designing something to be mass-manufactured in plastic (perhaps with metal loop and latch) with a variety of NEM fittings.

[bridgiesimon]

An additional comment I would like to add is that more recently, i use a permanent marker such as a Sharpie to blacken the etches for the MBD couplings before assembling them, other than the part to be soldered. this helps to make them less visible than the bare brass etch. I found that paint would run off too quickly.

 

Best wishes

Simon

[David41283]

23 hours ago, bridgiesimon said:

An additional comment I would like to add is that more recently, i use a permanent marker such as a Sharpie to blacken the etches for the MBD couplings before assembling them, other than the part to be soldered. this helps to make them less visible than the bare brass etch. I found that paint would run off too quickly.

 

Best wishes

Simon

 

That's a great idea, I had assumed I'd use a chemical blackening solution, but I'll try a permanent marker.

[David41283]

I spent today having a better go with the DGs. To be honest, once I took a few minutes to do the soldering properly, it was easy. A quick wipe of the wires with a fibreglass pen, tinned both ends and the loop and dropper went together really nicely. Again a little more time on each loop and they were also a lot more consistent. I made up 7 couplings in an hour and fitted a latch only coupling to a farish 08 using plasticard pack into the NEM pocket as per Keith's method above.

 

I was able to get them working on my little "lockdown layout" even with it's settrack curves and permanent Dapol magnets.

 

I did get some buffer locking when pushing wagons, but I don't think DGs were ever designed with trainset curves in mind!  

[David41283]

Aside from my coupling experiments, I have had another side project on the go for the last few weeks, which now it has not been a disaster is at a stage to share.

 

I just got a first coat of primer on this morning, and there are still a few bits which require a little more filling and filing, but overall I think this will look the part.

 

It is built in etched brass, my first go at such a kit, using Worsley Works "scratch aid" parts. Other details are from the spares box or made from styrene.

 

I have a new Dapol cl 33 chassis bought from Dapol Spares at DCC Supplies from which I have filed a few mm off each side to fit, so it should run nicely too.

 

I reckon I've just increased the chances of Dapol announcing an N gauge 29 in the next 6 months by about 500% too!

 

 

[03060]

That's looking very good David, it's nice to know that there is a viable option around for having an N gauge cl.29, I'm quite capable of building etched locos in 3mm scale but probably would have dismissed the idea in N (I take my hat off to the lads from the 2mm Association !)

 

I live in hope that Dapol will eventually come up with a cl.29 but as a new batch of cl.33s are currently appearing maybe I should reconsider ....watching with interest. 

 

Regards,

Ian.

[Hoover 40]

That looks excellent , there are lots of different angles to get right . I feel your pain with the big boys announcing RTR after you've spent time building something.  At least you will know it all your own work

[Crompton Power]

23 hours ago, David41283 said:

I spent today having a better go with the DGs. To be honest, once I took a few minutes to do the soldering properly, it was easy. A quick wipe of the wires with a fibreglass pen, tinned both ends and the loop and dropper went together really nicely. Again a little more time on each loop and they were also a lot more consistent. I made up 7 couplings in an hour and fitted a latch only coupling to a farish 08 using plasticard pack into the NEM pocket as per Keith's method above.

Glad to see that you are having some success with the DGs and that 29 looks great!

[Neil Watson]

On 27/02/2021 at 12:07, David41283 said:

Aside from my coupling experiments, I have had another side project on the go for the last few weeks, which now it has not been a disaster is at a stage to share.

 

I just got a first coat of primer on this morning, and there are still a few bits which require a little more filling and filing, but overall I think this will look the part.

 

It is built in etched brass, my first go at such a kit, using Worsley Works "scratch aid" parts. Other details are from the spares box or made from styrene.

 

I have a new Dapol cl 33 chassis bought from Dapol Spares at DCC Supplies from which I have filed a few mm off each side to fit, so it should run nicely too.

 

I reckon I've just increased the chances of Dapol announcing an N gauge 29 in the next 6 months by about 500% too!

 

 

Well done your craftsmanship getting this to work is great, I had my first go a few years ago and they are very fiddly and being my first attempt with soldering an etched kit didn’t go very well as you can see. I rushed it towards the end and sold it on. I found the Dapol cl22 chassis fitted very well but needed lengthening. 

[David41283]

On 02/03/2021 at 10:24, Neil Watson said:

Well done your craftsmanship getting this to work is great, I had my first go a few years ago and they are very fiddly and being my first attempt with soldering an etched kit didn’t go very well as you can see. I rushed it towards the end and sold it on. I found the Dapol cl22 chassis fitted very well but needed lengthening. 

 

Thank you.

 

Although your photo would suggest you had managed to bend the roof the right shape and get the body profile right, which I found one of the hardest parts. The noses and other parts on mine have been aided by milliput to fill gaps and get the shape right.

 

I was actually quite impressed with etched brass as a material to be honest. (about 50 years late to the party, I know!) - it's strength but also how well it can be filed and shaped too.

 

I did a fair bit of reading about etched kit construction and invested the princely sum of about £20 in what I felt would be essential equipment - I bought some 145 degree solder and some liquid acid flux from Eileens Emporium and a new 2.3mm chisel bit for my basic 25w Antex soldering iron. The brush-on flux and low-melt solder made a massive difference I believe, especially as I had a relatively low-powered soldering iron.

 

 

 

[David41283]

After getting hold of some 0.8mm brass wire, I had a go at making some NEM compatible DG couplings, as per Dave Searle's method for Hinksey Yard posted further up this thread.

 

 

The coupling requires cutting down quite a lot to fit, I soldered the wire on slightly over length, then trimmed it back to fit.

 

 

 

The big problem I found with this was the force needed to clip the coupling into the NEM socket was so great it was very difficult to avoid distorting the coupling itself - as can be seen by the mangled example above. I tried a few items of rolling stock and found all equally stiff when trying to clip into the socket.

 

I was hoping this would prove easier than packing the pocket with plasticard, or a full conversion involving removal of the moulded coupler pocket.

[David41283]

On the coupling front, I have turned my attention to electromagnets.

 

The official PK magnets seem to have sold out at the supplier. Gaugemaster offer an alternative - the EM1 which has the added advantage of working on the 16v accessory feed already installed on the layout for the point motors. However I feel these are overpriced at £11-£12 each for what they are.

 

There are numerous threads about making your own electromagnets, but all require a greater degree of electrical understanding than I posses, to work out the number of windings, resistance etc.. I also like the idea of using a power source already in place, rather than adding another.

 

On this basis I picked up a few of these very cheaply - all three costing less than 1 Gaugemaster EM1 magnet. 

I figured that these were suitable coils, which I knew worked with a 16v supply through a push-to-make switch.

They come apart very easily. And through separating the coils, and recycling the PCB base I made this with the addition of a 3.5mm diameter nail.

After setting up a quick test rig - it works.

The coil did get a quite warm, but then I did activate it an awful lot of times in a few minutes while testing, and my method of touching wires together to provide the current was probably a bit less controlled than a push-to-make switch.

In my simple world, this seems a good solution - if anyone who understands these things better than me can see an impending disaster, please let me know!  

[David41283]

So, 7 months on from the last post on this thread, I have just been to my first exhibition in 3 years. I was booked for the Calne show which was due to take place in a couple of weeks, but sadly this one was cancelled, but I was then invited to an exhibition in Yealmpton just outside Plymouth which did go ahead on Saturday.

 

I eventually did get round to fitting some more Dapol uncoupling magnets which worked well over the weekend.

 

Here are some photos of the layout set up on Saturday.

 

 

For a small village hall event, it was really well attended. Interesting that demand was up, probably due to the lack of exhibitions for a couple of years, rather than down due to covid fears. As ever lots of people stopped to chat and ask questions about the layout.

 

It was a really enjoyable day.

 

[GWRPhil]

41 minutes ago, David41283 said:

So, 7 months on from the last post on this thread, I have just been to my first exhibition in 3 years. I was booked for the Calne show which was due to take place in a couple of weeks, but sadly this one was cancelled, but I was then invited to an exhibition in Yealmpton just outside Plymouth which did go ahead on Saturday.

 

I eventually did get round to fitting some more Dapol uncoupling magnets which worked well over the weekend.

 

Here are some photos of the layout set up on Saturday.

 

 

For a small village hall event, it was really well attended. Interesting that demand was up, probably due to the lack of exhibitions for a couple of years, rather than down due to covid fears. As ever lots of people stopped to chat and ask questions about the layout.

 

It was a really enjoyable day.

 

Layouts looking good setup there. Is it booked for anymore Devon/Cornwall shows soon?

[David41283]

4 hours ago, GWRPhil said:

Layouts looking good setup there. Is it booked for anymore Devon/Cornwall shows soon?

 

Funnily enough I was invited to another local show by a visitor on Saturday, but I couldn't accept due to scheduling issues. Watch this space however...

[David41283]

I have finally set up on youtube in order to facilitate posting some videos on here - here are some very short phone clips of the layout working at the show.

 

 

 

 

 

[GWRPhil]

4 hours ago, David41283 said:

 

Funnily enough I was invited to another local show by a visitor on Saturday, but I couldn't accept due to scheduling issues. Watch this space however...

Thanks for the info. 

[ianwales]

Have you seen this on Facebook? 

 

https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=898823951065544&set=gm.2979886572252599&__cft__[0]=AZUy7JwgMsFIhjzZQa8uQiYTmDk5kC2Q7WmxGn5qfH9aKTktSOYeeUCFH3sB8by5YsSq303YuXK0sTehAUvM9NaHXQGmndadHjdh9rlyIG5HE2FhQVX6XaI3eWfnkejsVuTrpmhgFLnYYF59YXHRMlD4&__tn__=EH-R

 

Ian

[David41283]

8 hours ago, ianwales said:

Have you seen this on Facebook? 

 

https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=898823951065544&set=gm.2979886572252599&__cft__[0]=AZUy7JwgMsFIhjzZQa8uQiYTmDk5kC2Q7WmxGn5qfH9aKTktSOYeeUCFH3sB8by5YsSq303YuXK0sTehAUvM9NaHXQGmndadHjdh9rlyIG5HE2FhQVX6XaI3eWfnkejsVuTrpmhgFLnYYF59YXHRMlD4&__tn__=EH-R

 

Ian

 
The link seems to be broken? I’m intrigued….

[ianwales]

On 13/10/2021 at 21:04, David41283 said:

 
The link seems to be broken? I’m intrigued….

Hi David

 

There is a group on FB called Glory Days of Diesels & Electrics and the link I posted was to a photo posted on Oct 6th of a class 27 departing over the station throat of the old station, taken from what looks like a path between the fence and the Loch. There are a few shots of the old FW Station on that site.

 

Ian

Edited October 15, 2021 by ianwales

[crunchie48]

I would like to bring the Invernevis story up to date. 

 

I purchased the layout from David in January of last year after he had advertised in on Facebook. I'd followed this thread from the start and had the article from the Railway Modeller. I'd admired the layout greatly and think I'd bought it within minutes of it being advertised. 

 

I've had a long interest in the West Highland and around 20 years of being involved with rail services on the line. 

 

My plan for the layout was to take it from the period David had modelled back to the mid 1950s to mid 1960s. This allows me to run my fleet of steam and early diesels. 

 

To this end I've made a few modifications. I approached Pop Up Designs who had just completed work on a 4mm Fort William Station and Canopy for commission. I asked if Iain could scale them down to N gauge. I had no plans for replacing the station building as David's slightly smaller building works extremely well. I have replaced the Ratio canopies with P.U.D.'s. These have been built using 1.5mm ply for the structure and 0.8mm ply for the glazing elements. I have decided not to glaze the canopies and the comments from those who have seen it have been extremely favourable. Some more work is needed on the cross girders as I had to narrow the overall width to allow them to fit. The ply ones will be replaced by etches. 

 

The hi viz shunter has gone and been replaced by a suitable member of staff from the period. The Brutes have also disappeared.

 

I have added an extension to the fiddle yard to give a bit of operational flexibility.

 

The layout made its Scottish debut at the Rainbow Railways N Gauge exhibition in Linlithgow in April. It ran like a dream, save for the points for platform 3 which didn't want to change when operated directly but did when operating platform 2 then 3. Some investigation work to be done before the Falkirk and Paisley shows which it has been invited to. 

 

I am planning to extend the platforms at the station end to allow full length West Highland steam services but retaining the character of the original layout. 

 

Fort William had a very distinct bracket signal controlling the departure of trains. Mark Seward was commissioned to build this and the associated post and this will be fitted soon replacing the Ratio round post signals. 

 

Rolling stock is a challenge for the West Highland in that period, there being no K1s, K2/2s or K4s available in any form and some very specific coaching stock too. 3D printing has been my go to.  The genius that is Rudi Newman of Newman Miniatures was approach a few years ago to design advanced scratch aids and we have been working to fill that gap. To that end the K1, K2/2 and K4s are now available on Shapeways on his site. These fit the superb Farish N Class chassis. On top of that the J37 has been produced (for the C Class) and the D34 Glen in both wingplate and shorn guises for a modified Farish 2P chassis. The chassis needed to be remotored to lower the profile. One of Sven's kits at Tramfabriek doing the trick. Tiny Underground have done a beautiful J36 for the C Class chassis and I have 2 that will be done as 65300 and 65313. The rest of the steam stock is provided by either Farish Black 5s and B1s or Dapol B1s, all renumbered to locos that were regulars on the line. One, 61140 will be sporting the Self Weighing Tender. Rudi has just completed a little commission to allow a Dapol B1 to be modified. Renumbering and weathering was carried out by Rob Elliot and he's made a superb job. Especially of the unique to the line 76001 which is a weathering masterpiece. 

 

I've been assisting Will Jayne at Beacon Models on a little labour of love. The class 29. Last year he did its wee brother, the 22 and I prevailed on him to stretch the body and do the bigger loco. This runs on a modified Tomytec chassis and made an appearance at Linlithgow. It walked away with 10 coaches on the Renfrewshire club layout and could have easily handled more. Its not available to buy (yet).

 

Coaching stock is a mix of Farish and Dapol. Most of which has now been weathered by Rob Elliot. As I mentioned the West Highland had an interesting range of coaching stock. The Beavertails in both forms are from 3D prints from Recreation21 as was the ex GCR Inspection saloon SC970113. I have a wish to get the Gresley brake composite sleeper and buffets that ran on the line done but drawings are extremely difficult to find. There were only 3 of each built after all. There is also a 3rd class Met Camm Pullman with the number painted out. This represents the one used on the line during possessions in the mid 60s onwards alongside a 12 wheel ex LMS sleeper. 

 

Operations and formations have been gleaned from a variety of sources. Thanks go to Jim Archibald who used to work in the station box and he sent me a very detailed set of movements. The formations are from the rolling stock diagrams for the line. They make for interesting reading. A friend of mine/s late father was the District Manager for the area and his notes have been invaluable as has bouncing various things off John McGregor, Graham Maxtone (now retired from Banavie) and John McNab, who used to work in the the coaching stock department at Cowlairs. 

 

After this the next plan coming together in mind is to build Garelochhead. I had thought about Bridge of Orchy but the excellent Gary Hinson is doing that. 

Edited May 14, 2023 by crunchie48

[03060]

I was talking with (I presume) Will Jayne of Beacon Models at the NGS show at York on Sat and I thought that I'd heard him mention a Class 29 during the conversation, which was mainly about replacement noses for Class 37s.

 

Glad to here that Invernevis has found a new owner who plans to exhibit it, keep the photos coming, please, as I'd love to see some with the K1s etc in action.

 

Regards,

Ian.

[crunchie48]

14 hours ago, 03060 said:

I was talking with (I presume) Will Jayne of Beacon Models at the NGS show at York on Sat and I thought that I'd heard him mention a Class 29 during the conversation, which was mainly about replacement noses for Class 37s.

 

Glad to here that Invernevis has found a new owner who plans to exhibit it, keep the photos coming, please, as I'd love to see some with the K1s etc in action.

 

Regards,

Ian.

Aye that would have been Will. A very clever guy. His Timber Ps will also be very worth waiting for. I'll post some photos of the moguls when they're ready. My biggest problem is lining. I am no use at it. 

[03060]

4 hours ago, crunchie48 said:

Aye that would have been Will. A very clever guy. His Timber Ps will also be very worth waiting for. I'll post some photos of the moguls when they're ready. My biggest problem is lining. I am no use at it. 

Interesting, I've been collecting Peco 15' chassis with the intention of scratchbuilding some Timber Ps, I had a look at the new Rapido wagons but reckoned that only the chassis would get used. I'll hang fire for a bit and see what develops.

 

Cheers,

Ian.