Staffordshire Posted March 16, 2016 Share Posted March 16, 2016 Hello I am hoping to build in 4mm OO gauge the Fowler LMS Shunter ED1 in its later BR days. I am after any information concerning any physical differences between Fowler GWR 1 and ED1 ? Are these two locos identical or are there suitable differences between the two small engines ? Any information greatly appreciated. May thanks, Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mike Bellamy Posted March 16, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 16, 2016 The most obvious difference is the position of the starter motor . . . . . There is some information about 7mm scale models here GWR http://www.davidlosmith.co.uk/GWR_Fowler.htm LMS http://www.davidlosmith.co.uk/LMS_Fowler.htm I thought that somewhere David had published a list of all the differences between the two but I can't find it here on RMweb - might have been the O Gauge Guild site? If I get time tonight I'll search a bit more . . . . . . . Mike . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staffordshire Posted March 17, 2016 Author Share Posted March 17, 2016 The most obvious difference is the position of the starter motor . . . . . There is some information about 7mm scale models here GWR http://www.davidlosmith.co.uk/GWR_Fowler.htm LMS http://www.davidlosmith.co.uk/LMS_Fowler.htm I thought that somewhere David had published a list of all the differences between the two but I can't find it here on RMweb - might have been the O Gauge Guild site? If I get time tonight I'll search a bit more . . . . . . . Mike . Thanks Mike, if you do get the time to find the list of differences, it would be extremely helpful. Cheers, Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon A Posted March 17, 2016 Share Posted March 17, 2016 I could be wrong but I think Chris Gibbons of High Level is working on a kit for the GWR version? Gordon A Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mike Bellamy Posted March 18, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 18, 2016 Ian As mentioned above there was a list of the differences between the two which was posted on the Gauge O Guild Forum by David Smith - my previous posting linked to his website where you can see his models of GWR 1 and LMS 2. David is here on RMweb as 'Isambarduk' - I'll send him a link to this topic and ask his permission to copy the details here (or ask him to join in the discussion) Mike. . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Isambarduk Posted March 18, 2016 Share Posted March 18, 2016 "I could be wrong but I think Chris Gibbons of High Level is working on a kit for the GWR version?" This is correct. I lent him my GA drawings and official photographs of the LMS example to help with his design work. "The most obvious difference is the position of the starter motor" Well, yes, that does strike you right away but you only need to begin looking slightly closer to see that they are different animals completely and that they are only superficially similar. It would be quite a challenge to make one from the other; this has been discussed here before in connection with the possibility of creating LMS No.2 from the RTR Ixion Fowler in 7mm scale, which is GWR No. 1. As Mike has pointed out, I have listed the differences before but, as he know where, I'll leave it to him to provide a link! (In the meantime, I will search). All the best with your build, Ian. David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mike Bellamy Posted March 18, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 18, 2016 Thank you David As the Gauge O Guild Forum is only available to members, this is a copy of the list David posted in this topic http://www.gauge0guild.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=3176, Wheels and split-axlesFlycranks and shaftBuffersDrawplatesGuard ironsChimneyFront sandboxes and filler lidsRadiator filler capFuel tank filler capHornAll the parts of the starting engine and starting gearBrake cross-shaft bracketBrake standardGear leversGear change crankBrake hanger bracketsRunning plate support bracketsSump/tank + drain valveSanding pipes and bracketsLubricatorsGrease potAir cylindersBonnet stepsBonnet handlesDog clampsand there were many more functional parts that I made (such as hornblocks, springs and bushes) and other parts that I appreciably altered (such as the frames, rods, radiator, bonnet, cab side-sheets and gear box) but the most challenging job of all was punching out the louvered panels (as described at: www.davidlosmith.co.uk/LMS_Fowler.htm). Hope that helps - as for me it's ready to run or nothing - in fact my friends were quite amused when I won a raffle prize at Kettering for £25 to spend at Eileen's Emporium as they said that I didn't understand what glue and solder were used for !! Good luck with the build. Mike . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Isambarduk Posted March 18, 2016 Share Posted March 18, 2016 To be fair, my list contains the tasks that I undertook to make the former Underhill (now ABS) 7mm kit (which was intended to be able to be assembled as either LMS No.2 or GWR No. 1) into a reasonable likeness of LMS No.2. To convert from the GWR to LMS example would depend rather a lot on how fussy you are and how well that the GWR example is represented in the first place. To convert the 7mm Ixion model, for example, I think that (from my list) the following would be quite satisfactory as they are: wheels chimney Front sandboxes and filler lids Radiator filler cap Fuel tank filler cap Horn Brake cross-shaft bracket Brake standard Gear levers Gear change crank Brake hanger brackets Running plate support brackets Sanding pipes and brackets Lubricators Grease pot Air cylinders Bonnet steps Bonnet handles Dog clamps because these items were not (obviously) different in the two examples but they were not at all well represented in the 7mm white metal kit, which is now classic/vintage in age. For completeness, here is what I wrote at the time in my G0G (Gauge 0 Guild) posting (thanks, Mike for supplying the link for me): -“Since you did LMS 2, any other major differences between it and GWR 1 besides moving the starter over to the other side?”Well, Brian, as I discovered when I came to build it, almost ‘everything’ is different it detail. The current ABS (formerly Eric Underhill / Vulcan) kit, from which I used some parts, is probably closest to the GWR version but Eric was good enough to agree to take back any of the parts that I did not choose to use. In the event, I took back to him all but a few of the castings as many of them were not appropriate for the LMS No. 2 and many were just generic castings that Eric had used and were not suitable for a Fowler at all.Looking at my note book, I have drawings for and made:Wheels and split-axlesFlycranks and shaftBuffersDrawplatesGuard ironsChimneyFront sandboxes and filler lidsRadiator filler capFuel tank filler capHornAll the parts of the starting engine and starting gearBrake cross-shaft bracketBrake standardGear leversGear change crankBrake hanger bracketsRunning plate support bracketsSump/tank + drain valveSanding pipes and bracketsLubricatorsGrease potAir cylindersBonnet stepsBonnet handlesDog clampsand there were many more functional parts that I made (such as hornblocks, springs and bushes) and other parts that I appreciably altered (such as the frames, rods, radiator, bonnet, cab side-sheets and gear box) but the most challenging job of all was punching out the louvered panels (as described at: www.davidlosmith.co.uk/LMS_Fowler.htm).As I mentioned there “I was fortunate to have copies of the GA drawing and the official Fowler works photographs of both sides”; now the drawings are too large for me to scan but the photographs are about full plate (actually 12” x 10”) so I have scanned them and placed smaller versions here:I did obtain them officially from the holder of the Fowler records in 1991 but they are not marked with copyright information. I would expect them to have copyright protection, though, so please do not assume that you may reproduce them freely; I have also now put them on my ‘Fowler page’. Looking at the photographs of LMS No2 and comparing them with the photograph of GWR No. 1Note same caution about copyright, please.you may see that, when you actually get down to it, they are not such similar animals at all! However, from what I know of the Ixion project, their model will be a very reasonably faithful reproduction of GWR No.1; if you wish to model another prototype (LMS or industrial) reasonably faithfully then you’ll be in for a bit of pleasant remodelling work.I hope I have answered it.David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dymstocklr Posted March 19, 2016 Share Posted March 19, 2016 David ........ However, from what I know of the Ixion project, their model will be a very reasonably faithful reproduction of GWR No.1; if you wish to model another prototype (LMS or industrial) reasonably faithfully then you’ll be in for a bit of pleasant remodelling work.' David The OP certainly will need to do some remodelling work - he's working in 4mm! Bill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Isambarduk Posted March 19, 2016 Share Posted March 19, 2016 "The OP certainly will need to do some remodelling work - he's working in 4mm! Bill " Indeed. Just to be clear though, I am quoting myself on the Gauge 0 Guild Forum in March 2013 and I am addressing Brian (as in "Well, Brian, as I discovered when ...) not Ian, OP. However, I am sure that, one day, Ian will see the wisdom of moving up to 7mm David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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