Euston underground - confused childhood memories....

[gordon s]

When I was a young child, my parents used to take me up to Glasgow from London each summer to stay with my grand parents during the school holidays.  It was a trip I loved from the outset and probably goes someway to explain my love of steam railways and Glasgow trams.  It would have been throughout the 50's and as we lived in North London, we would have taken the Piccadilly Line Tube from Arnos Grove to Kings Cross and then changed to the Northern Line to Euston.

 

This is where I have strong memories of the journey, but I cannot seem to trace pictures or evidence to confirm my memories were correct, so hopefully someone can through some light on it.

 

The first abiding memory was of an island platform, definitely on the underground and access to the platform was via a steel fabricated footbridge and down some stairs onto the platform itself.  This is Clapham North, so not the right station, but basically what I recall.

 

http://150greatthingsabouttheunderground.com/2012/09/23/53-the-platforms-at-clapham-north/

 

Was there ever an island platform at Euston?

 

The second memory I have is standing on one platform, but being able to see other trains passing by in a parallel tunnel.  

 

We also went to Regents Park Zoo in the summer holidays and that would involve the same trip only this time going further to Camden before walking to the zoo.

Looking at the underground map this could have been Mornington Crescent and this site does show numerous photographs that may support that theory.  Perhaps the two trips each year have become merged over the years and as such may not reflect reality.

 

http://www.guerrillaexploring.com/gesite/public_html/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=391:ges251-camden-crossovers-london-underground&catid=52:metro&Itemid=67

 

So back to the two questions.

 

Was Euston ever an island platform on the Northern Line. 

 

Where could I stand on a platform and see other trains passing behind the line we were on?  Could that have been Mornington Crescent?

 

Now rapidly approaching 70, it's been something that emerges from my head every so often and I'd love to understand where these memories originated.

[Edwin_m]

Euston had an island platform on what is now the Northern Line (City branch).  If you look today one platform tunnel is much wider than normal where the second trackbed has been filled in up to platform level.  New platform and connecting tunnels were built for the other track to run alongside.  The same is true of Angel (not converted until the 1990s IIRC), London Bridge and possibly others - the City and South London and its extensions seem to have gone in for Island platforms but I'm not sure if they were all originally like that. 

 

There are various websites describing the abandoned tunnels around Euston and other stations. 

[Dr Gerbil-Fritters]

I have the same hazy memory from the late 80s- I think it's Angel we're remembering.

 

Certainly this pic from Flickr looks as I remember it.

 

[Nearholmer]

Yes, if you look high-up in the crown of the arch over what is now the SB City Branch at Euston, you can see where the footbridge disappeared into "eaves", towards where the SB Victoria platform now is.

 

Without checking, I'm not certain, but I think the splitting-out of the City branch as it now is dates from the construction of the Victoria Line, to give level interchange between the two lines, but it may have been earlier.

 

There are remnants of the old interconnecting passageways "back of house" at Euston, and the history of the whole underground system there is quite complicated, because there were originally separate stations, one that can still be seen to the west of the mainline terminus, and the other that was on the east of the mainline terminus and disappeared long ago.

 

You aren't suffering from false-memory syndrome!

 

Kevin

[jonny777]

http://www.guerrillaexploring.com/gesite/public_html/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=391:ges251-camden-crossovers-london-underground&catid=52:metro&Itemid=67

 

So back to the two questions.

 

Was Euston ever an island platform on the Northern Line. 

 

Where could I stand on a platform and see other trains passing behind the line we were on?  Could that have been Mornington Crescent?

 

Now rapidly approaching 70, it's been something that emerges from my head every so often and I'd love to understand where these memories originated.

 

After a bit of hunting, I found this photo which may bring back memories - http://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-a-tube-a-train-at-a-london-underground-platform-at-euston-66154942.html

[rockershovel]

Island platforms accessed from lattice overbridges says "early Northern Line" to me, and on investigation I find that Euston (City Branch) did indeed have such a layout, until it was removed in the 1967 reconstruction. The Angel was certainly like that until its redevelopment in tne early 90s.

 

The "trains in a parallel tunnel" sounds as though it might be the "Euston Loop", a section of the now-redundant running tunnel kept as an operational link. But, you could be right about Mornington Crescent, a station I know only courtesy of Radio 4 but which does have the distinction of being on BOTH branches of the Northern Line and where Edgware bound services did not stop.

[Horsetan]

....The second memory I have is standing on one platform, but being able to see other trains passing by in a parallel tunnel.....

Probably Piccadilly Circus, at the northern end of the northbound Bakerloo Line. It is still like that today.

[gordon s]

Thanks for all your posts.  I use the internet for extensive research whenever I'm stuck, so can only guess I was using vague search terms.  Certainly the links and your posts have gone a long way to confirm it wasn't my mind playing tricks.  Great to see those pics of Euston as an island platform.  My earliest memories would have been when I was probably around four, so 1952.  We did use the Piccadilly line a lot, so the second question could have been Piccadilly Circus, although my money is still on the Northern Line.

 

This link talks about a link tunnel from the Northern Line to the Piccadilly, so that could possibly explain that.  Curious about Mornington Crescent though and how two lines pass through the station, but only the Kennington Line trains stop.  Could you see the Kings Cross northern line trains from Mornington Crescent platform?

 

http://www.subbrit.org.uk/sb-sites/sites/e/euston_station/index.shtml

[Nearholmer]

Rocker

 

You said:

 

"Mornington Crescent, a station I know only courtesy of Radio 4 but which does have the distinction of being on BOTH branches of the Northern Line"

 

It is now only on the Charing Cross Branch, and I was under the impression that had always been the case, the junction between the branches being as below, at Camden Town.

 

I thought that the "Charing Cross and Hampstead" and the C&SLR were completely separate until Camden junction was created, the latter terminating at Euston. But, I may not be correct about that ......... So, was there a period when Mornington Crescent was served by City Branch trains? [ Edit: having now had time to check: no there wasn't. Mornington Cresent has only ever been on the Charing Cross Branch.]

 

kevin

[bbishop]

Thanks for all your posts.  I use the internet for extensive research whenever I'm stuck, so can only guess I was using vague search terms.  Certainly the links and your posts have gone a long way to confirm it wasn't my mind playing tricks.  Great to see those pics of Euston as an island platform.  My earliest memories would have been when I was probably around four, so 1952.  We did use the Piccadilly line a lot, so the second question could have been Piccadilly Circus, although my money is still on the Northern Line.

 

This link talks about a link tunnel from the Northern Line to the Piccadilly, so that could possibly explain that.  Curious about Mornington Crescent though and how two lines pass through the station, but only the Kennington Line trains stop.  Could you see the Kings Cross northern line trains from Mornington Crescent platform?

 

I must disagree. The two branches of the Northern Line cross at Euston, and only the Charing Cross branch (now to the east) has a station at Mornington Crescent. There're isn't a station on the City branch.

 

The link at Kings Cross is the only access from the Northern Line to the rest of the Underground system.

 

Bill

 

http://www.subbrit.org.uk/sb-sites/sites/e/euston_station/index.shtml

[Grovenor]

It is now only on the Charing Cross Branch, and I was under the impression that had always been the case,

 

Yes.

But the original post said Edgware trains did not stop, seems the writer was thinking that Mornington Crescent was north of Camden Town.

Regards

[Nearholmer]

Either that, or it was a ruse, being used under protection of "Lavington's Second Exception", to allow the poster to make the final move, and shout out the famous words.

 

K

[gordon s]

Not sure if you are referring to me, Keith, but I did know that Mornington Crescent was between Euston and Camden Town.  My query was that over the years has one set of memories merged into the other, with trips to Euston and trips to the London Zoo somehow morphing into one thought.  

 

From what's been said, I suspect it may have been the Euston - Piccadilly Line loop trains that I could have seen at Euston station.

[Glorious NSE]

Whilst I agree with Piccadilly Circus (Bakerloo) as being most obvious, there are several places on the underground where there's a crossover cavern or turnback siding near a platform end, which would allow you to see other train moves from the platform...

Having said that - it's plausible to have got to Regents Park by going to Piccadilly Circus and taking the Bakerloo to Regents Park station rather than the Northern and walking?

[gordon s]

Looking at the map of Regents Park, the underground station is some way from the Zoo entrance, so it would definitely have been to Camden Town and then walk over the bridges to the Zoo entrance.

 

Having said that though, we did use Piccadilly Circus as kids, so it may well be two memories merging into one...

 

Interesting stuff.

 

My grandparents flat backed onto the line from Kilmarnock into Glasgow Central and whilst staying there, my favourite position was standing on a kitchen chair in their second floor flat and watching the night sleeper's/early morning trains pass a few hundred yards away.  Often double headed and always with clouds of smoke and steam, it's one of those memories that will always be just that.  Impossible to recreate in real life, but models can take you back there....

 

.....and will do one day if I pull my finger out.

[Horsetan]

Yes.

But the original post said Edgware trains did not stop, seems the writer was thinking that Mornington Crescent was north of Camden Town.

 

Mornington Crescent used to operate Mondays to Fridays only, and was closed at weekends, hence trains would not stop in either direction for those two days.

[Grovenor]

 

Not sure if you are referring to me, Keith, but I did know that Mornington Crescent was between Euston and Camden Town.

Well, no not you, the original post referring to Mornington Crescent was by "rockershovel". I used to live in Chalk Farm, and work, in Camden Town 1966-69 and often used the various stations including MC and Euston and remember the Island platform well.  I don't think the Piccadilly - northern link can be seen from the platforms but you would not see any trains using it in service hours anyway.

Regards

[Edwin_m]

When trying to understand the Camden junctions it's worth remembering that the City and Charing Cross branches of the Northern diverge at Camden Town but one then passes over the other at Euston.  So between those two places the City branch is to the west. 

[rockershovel]

Looking at my fragmentary notes from the period when I did quite a lot of work in North London LUL tunnels, particularly at Angel and its surrounding tunnels, I rather think that there may be a service connection of some sort between the branches at or adjacent to Mornington Crescent, possibly either a relic of the construction phase, the subsequent integration of the Northern Line or the 1967 reconstruction.

 

It would make sense as the running tunnels converge at Mornington Crescent. There are numerous unlisted connections of this sort on LUL - I worked on track realignment between Bank and Moorgate at one time, and there is a ladder shaft between the running tunnels there, for example.

 

Otherwise I'll just beg off on the grounds of never having been there...

 

Ben

[rockershovel]

Mornington Crescent used to operate Mondays to Fridays only, and was closed at weekends, hence trains would not stop in either direction for those two days.

I rather get the impression that the complex history of this little-used but widely-known station has generated its own urban legends.

 

I have more than once heard that the station hall was so small that there was a ticket window in the lift. Whether this is true, I have no idea although I find it difficult to envisage.

 

Digressing slightly, I used Mornington Crescent as a name in a specimen Permit To Work, some years ago. Returning to the field last year I find that T. Cobleigh, H. Hawke and D. Whiddon don't appear to have completed the job yet, or have possibly secured regular employment in the Training Dept..

[Nearholmer]

This detailed track layout of railways in London might keep "tube gricers" entertained for a week or three.

 

http://carto.metro.free.fr/metro-london/

 

K

[rockershovel]

Ooooooo, super!

 

Interesting to see London Bridge, I was there yesterday and changed from Northern to Jubilee Lines. I worked there (mostly in the Northern Line) for a year or so on the Jubilee Line Extension, but never saw the completed station. So, I had a walk about... memory fades, it was sobering to realise that it was over twenty years ago...

 

The Heathrow Express collapse provoked much head-scratching at JLE, because the junction between the new and existing Northbound running tunnels was and is, actually under the Thames. The South Connection was achieved using a conventional step-plate connection but the North Connection was revised so that the new tunnel was driven as close as possible, then the existing line closed and the tunnels intersected and connected end-to-end.

 

The cast-iron segments visible in tne exchange concourse were also not part of the original design, but introduced for security's sake following the Heathrow collapse.

 

Ben

[Nearholmer]

All the moles that I know from JLE-days are in the process of going to Israel, to work on a new metro there. Are you packing your bags?

 

K

[Edwin_m]

I have more than once heard that the station hall was so small that there was a ticket window in the lift. Whether this is true, I have no idea although I find it difficult to envisage.

According to Wikipedia, in the latter days of Aldwych station the lift operator checked tickets during the vertical journey, so it's quite possible Mornington Crescent had something similar. 

[trisonic]

I used to make the same trip myself in the fifties - but then I realized that we only used the Met Line to Euston.

 

Our Scottish branch (mainly) lived in Clarkston but their nearest station was Williamwood. Good going down to but a bu@@er going back up the hill by the golf course.....

 

Best, Pete.