Fowler tender, Deeley 3500G chassis, new tanks (2850 for a Crab)

[Jub45565]

Evening All,

 

Eventually I will be building a Crab in P4. My initial choice is 42770 as based at Manningham in the late 1950s.

 

The tender, however, was none standard.

 

Having been reading my copy of the LMS review issue 1, there is an article by John Jennison on the LMS standard tenders (part 1, so issue 2, which I don't (yet) have might give some more info, though I think part 2 is Stanier tenders?). This confirms what I though from a few photos, that 42770 had a 'rebuilt' tender.

 

The article states that my tender of interest was a flat sided rebuild numbered 2850 which originated from an early Deeley Compound and was rebuilt in 1949.

 

Firstly, from what I have read the tank dimensions are the same as 'standard' Fowler 3500g tenders, but were there any detail changes to suit the alternative underframe (other than in this case no beading)?

 

Secondly, would the underframe from a Deeley 3500g tender be correct - ie if I managed to source the underframe from an Alan Gibson tender kit would this be a good starting point? (yes, sourcing one might be a different matter, but I'll deal with that if it is indeed what I need!).

 

Edit - to remove incorrect valvegear info. There is also a photo of it of page 10 of Powe of the LMS 2-6-0s.

 

Cheers,

Pete

Edited March 17, 2016 by Jub45565

[jrg1]

Hello Pete

The standard LMS six-wheel slab sided tender had so many permutations that it would be a great help if a book was produced on the subject, just as the Great Northern Society has and excellent reference for GNR tenders.  Considering that some LMS six-wheelers started out as Midland bogie tenders, and there were rebuild hybrids of Fowler/Deeley/Johnson tenders, you have your work cut out-different lengths, rivetting/ welded, panelled/non-panelled .  A good place to start would be the Midland and LMS locomotive histories by Jenkinson and Essery, and also the LMS monographs to try and make some sense of it all.

 

Regards.

[Jub45565]

Thanks for that, apparently there is some useful info on these in the Wild Swan Compounds book - which may help with the chassis detailing either with comparing the photos or by chasing the tender number.  The body I think I am ok with - it is unbeaded but rivetted, and lined around the top edge.

 

Cheers,

[Poor Old Bruce]

There is also a fair bit of info on the tenders in the Wild Swan/NRM books on the 4Fs, more than in the book on the Crabs themselves.

[Blandford1969]

Have you seen the image of the said tender in BRILL Vol 25 no 3, December 2015 on page 104 and seen this https://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/c8/9a/2f/c89a2f3b298e23da3d3ba7cea273ce95.jpg&imgrefurl=https://uk.pinterest.com/pin/493425702902027126/&h=561&w=736&tbnid=mbz3bNhX5bpSPM:&docid=Abg2bV4lPvZWBM&ei=KsH6Vv32KuG56AS0xIOoBQ&tbm=isch&ved=0ahUKEwj9s_evu-bLAhXhHJoKHTTiAFUQMwgcKAAwAA

 

Kind regards

 

Duncan

Edited March 29, 2016 by Blandford1969

[Combe Martin]

The Somerset & Dorset 7F 53808 has a Deeley/Fowler hybrid tender.  I don't know if it's the same as attached to your Crab, but Bachmann do model it.  Now whether you can find one available separately is another matter. 

[Jub45565]

Thanks - not quite, from what I can see that has beaded tanks - 42770 had snaphead rivets and was unbeaded.  The same basic style of Fowler body on a Deeley underframe though.  I do have all the bits for this project, just awaiting the round tuit!