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Thanks John. Anneal until a nice cherry red, cool naturally. Then I use a scratch brush to make bright again where you need to solder.

 

Works just the same on nickle silver.

 

Can I ask how you heat your materials to anneal please ?, in 7mm there quite big and a plumbers tourch seems to fierce and the heat to concentrated, which nearly resulted in the death of one roof panel on my Class 57, I've held off the others until I can work out the best way to avoid that happening again. Once annealed and shaped, how do you get the strength back ?, it seems very soft once annealed.

 

Best

 

Michael

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Good morning Michael,

 

I use this excellent torch from B&Q. You can regulate the flame from small to fierce. I only use fierce on large parts. Small parts, I use about 50% - 60% flame.

 

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Not sure how it's possible to destroy parts. I have an old pair of long nose pliers and work from the top of the piece holding the torch in one corner untill cherry red then slowly and evenly move across, move down a little and back across until the whole piece has been heated to cherry red. (You are not trying to get the whole piece red all over at the same time, just as long as the piece has become red before moving along it).

 

As in all things, a little practice gets the right feel and touch.

 

The metal does work harden. Also after a short time it becomes harden off. The firebox on the Patriot is just fine already.

 

FOOTNOTE On large pieces, I only anneal the area of it that actually needs bending. I never anneal half etched pieces such as the cab roof and the like with half etched detail. The metal is already easy to bend. If I'm using the rolling machine, again, I do not anneal first.

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And here we are, built and at the prep stage for priming. (I have 4 models now at this stage but they can wait as delivery is not due until end of February and I have other things I want to do for myself :icon_wink: )

 

This has been a nice kit to build even with the mentioned smokebox/boiler issue. I think it has not really affected to overall look of the model.

 

Here she is.

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post-150-12638377476956_thumb.jpg

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'Love to see your unrebuilt Patriot John.'................your command is my wish........attched four photos of the work so far. As with a Gladiator kit it goes together fine and I'm quite pleased with it but....a) have taken off the bands on the boiler and might do on the firebox as I think they look a tad 'thick' , they'll be replaced with tape at the lined painting stage B) B) I was more than a bit miffed not to have spotted the total lack of rivets on the cab roof until after it was all in place. To be fair they are not all that noticeable in the photos of the real thing , but they are there. I might have to live with this as I don't fancy taking the roof off and I certainly don't fancy putting the individual ones in ie those from the States .....:O

 

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post-7062-12640766632497_thumb.jpg

 

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Hi Ken, sorry to hijack the thread slightly, but I wondered if I might post a pic of my roof with the Scale Hardware rivets that John was mentioning...

 

It's really not difficult at all, just a little time consuming with a few measurements a pin chuck....

 

JB.

 

post-6848-12640803300353_thumb.jpg

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Coming along very nicely, John. Looking forward to see it painted.

 

Love those rivets Jonathan, so much nicer than punched ones. Will have to look at them especially for bolt heads.

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Spent the day building this delightful Gladiator LNWR Beer Van for my layout, (one of a number of wagons I have backed up for the layout)

 

Here are the etches ready for the basic body.

 

post-150-12640837740879_thumb.jpg

 

The basic body soldered up.

 

post-150-12640838006554_thumb.jpg

 

All soldering completed and castings/overlays added.

 

post-150-12640838319066_thumb.jpg

 

I added fine chains to the brake post for the keeper pins.

 

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I like the working roof. A very nice kit. You just have a floor to supply youself, I used a piece of plasticard.

 

post-150-12640839634455_thumb.jpg

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'pic of my roof with the Scale Hardware rivets '.........sorry for a bit more hijacking.......I take your point JB , but looking at a photograph of part of the real roof , there are quite a few rivets but they are nowhere near as prominent as you've used. They really need to be done with a slight touch on the rivetting tool (a nightmare to mark out :O ) rather than using the Scale Hardware ones which would completely ruin the look of it.

 

Back on thread...... beer van looks interesting .....hic!

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Good morning Michael,

 

I use this excellent torch from B&Q. You can regulate the flame from small to fierce. I only use fierce on large parts. Small parts, I use about 50% - 60% flame.

 

post-150-12637155973673_thumb.jpg

 

Not sure how it's possible to destroy parts. I have an old pair of long nose pliers and work from the top of the piece holding the torch in one corner untill cherry red then slowly and evenly move across, move down a little and back across until the whole piece has been heated to cherry red. (You are not trying to get the whole piece red all over at the same time, just as long as the piece has become red before moving along it).

 

As in all things, a little practice gets the right feel and touch.

 

The metal does work harden. Also after a short time it becomes harden off. The firebox on the Patriot is just fine already.

 

FOOTNOTE On large pieces, I only anneal the area of it that actually needs bending. I never anneal half etched pieces such as the cab roof and the like with half etched detail. The metal is already easy to bend. If I'm using the rolling machine, again, I do not anneal first.

 

Ken, thanks and sorry for the late reply, I'd clean forgotten I'd even asked :), I'll try your technique, I've got a blow torch but I think the flame is a little fierce, its better suited to hot water pipes and the such, more a needle type flame rather than a broad flame I suspect yours gives, picture added.

 

Re damage to parts, it was a class 57 roof panel with grills etched out, the thinner bars ofthe grills heated quicker than the surrounding roof panel and they all bowed up, luckily being reasonable soft by that stage they rolled back flat and some tweaking with various impliments made them all straight again, with two more panels to do I'm not keen to repeat my mistake.

 

Gorgous looking loco, I have a real soft spot for the LMS 4-6-0s, not too keen on the unrebuilt Scots (though unrebuilt Patriots are much better proportioned IMHO), much prefer Staniers rebuilds or Jubilees, I think the deflectors really give them a nice touch !. Funds permitting I hope to aquire one later in the year, Gladiator or David Andrews, both kit ranges seem very well recieved by people.

 

Kindest

 

Michael

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Hi Michael. Now I see how you almost wrecked the roof. Never a good idea to heat those delicate areas. You have to work crefully in those areas, just heating the areas around them.

 

I dot not think that tourch is suitable. The pinpoint flame heats a very small area and will be a bit too fierce. My flame heats a much larger area using a bigger flame which heats the metal evenly over about sq 1"at a time. Plus you can control the amount of heat the flame gives. On thinner metals of, say 15 thou brass, a less fierce heat is reqiured as opposed to 20 thou nickle silver when I open the valve to almost max.

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Hi Michael. Now I see how you almost wrecked the roof. Never a good idea to heat those delicate areas. You have to work crefully in those areas, just heating the areas around them.

 

I dot not think that tourch is suitable. The pinpoint flame heats a very small area and will be a bit too fierce. My flame heats a much larger area using a bigger flame which heats the metal evenly over about sq 1"at a time. Plus you can control the amount of heat the flame gives. On thinner metals of, say 15 thou brass, a less fierce heat is reqiured as opposed to 20 thou nickle silver when I open the valve to almost max.

 

Ken, I concur, with hindsight the torch I have is great for soldering pipework or silver soldering refridgeration pipes which I used to do a lot, but hopeless for small modeling work, your broader flame, more like a paint stripping blow torch is the way to go, off to B&Q tomorrow and source the correct tools, they say "tools never make a good job", but the 'right' tools certainly help :).

 

Thanks for the info.

 

Best

 

Michael

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After spending some time building a few wagons for myself, I have the four locos now ready for Geoffs painter. Here they are.

 

First up. Rebuilt Patriot. Gladiator Kit.

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Next the J21. Gladiator Kit (Fourtrack Models). I love this little loco, I think I can see one on my layout in the near future.

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Now the Stanier 2-6-2T. Chowbent Kit.

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Last but least the HR Drummond. Unknowm maker, he gave me it loose in an old box, part built. The tablet catchers will be added after final painting. Makes it easier for the painter.

post-150-12652999743447_thumb.jpg

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Very nice... Really like the Patriot... another foreign engine that I wouldn't mind for myself..

 

JB

 

I have to agree, those Patriots do have very pleasing lines. Sadly it would look ridiculous on my light railway. If I ever more again I will have to look at another garden railway. Those were the days. :icon_sad:

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Another tree wagoms completed today for Pen y Cwm. 1 x refigerated meat van (LNWR). 2 x beer vans (Ex LNWR). All from the Gladiator range. Lovely kits to make up. These are hand lettered, I think I need a bit of practice in that department!

 

Just arriving in Pen y Cwm.

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Awaiting transfer to the goods yard.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Scratch building the recent Armstrong Whitworth has rekindled my enthusiasm for scratch building. I had almost forgotten how much pleasure there is in taking a sheet of brass, a scale drawing and then seeing the finished product at work on your layout.

 

So, a short break from the kit building has me tackling the Shropshire & Montgomeryshire loco

No 2 'SEVERN'. This weird looking loco was built by Bury Curtis & Kennedy in the 1840's and is of their bar frame construction. Originally built as an 0-4-0 tender loco was converted to an 0-4-2 saddle tank sometime before being bought by the S & M. (Possibly during the LNWR ownership period).

 

Originally working mixed trains on the S & M was eventually relegated to stone traffic until withdrawn in 1931 and cut up in 1937.

 

First image is the chassis cut from brass sheet and some nickle silver off cuts from previous kit etches. I have used brass sprung axle boxes on the trailing wheels and left the drivers unsprung. Using a 40:1 Roxy gear box and an 1833 Mashima. This motor fitted with 1mm to spare. The motor/gearbox unit actually needed to be flip over to allow it to sit lower. As stated it has 1mm clearances under the firebox and backhead.

post-150-12661814927503_thumb.jpg

 

Now to the body. Here is the basic footplate fretted out and ready for the body.

post-150-12661815359369_thumb.jpg

 

The boiler was rolled and using three laminations the smokebox was rolled and shaped to match the smoke box front. The bunker and cab sides were simple boxes and riveted striped made to attach round the tops.

The tank parts are cut and ready for assembly. I used thin card to make templates which make it easy to accurately cut the brass sheet for a perfect fit first time.

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The tank is soldered up and attached to the boiler. The sand baxes and tool box made at this time, again simple boxes folded up in the Metal Smith folding bars.

post-150-1266181896354_thumb.jpg

 

I forgot to mention the boiler bands. These were attached before the boiler was fitted. So much easier than after fitting it to the loco. The boiler will be filled with lead. I like heavy locos.

post-150-12661820159717_thumb.jpg

 

I now have the cab front/rear & roof to cut and fold. Again I will make a card one first as getting the port holes and bends correct will be a bit tricky. Then it's all down to the detailing.

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Scratch building the recent Armstrong Whitworth has rekindled my enthusiasm for scratch building. I had almost forgotten how much pleasure there is in taking a sheet of brass, a scale drawing and then seeing the finished product at work on your layout.

 

So, a short break from the kit building has me tackling the Shropshire & Montgomeryshire loco

No 2 'SEVERN'. This weird looking loco was built by Bury Curtis & Kennedy in the 1840's and is of their bar frame construction. Originally built as an 0-4-0 tender loco was converted to an 0-4-2 saddle tank sometime before being bought by the S & M. (Possibly during the LNWR ownership period).

 

Originally working mixed trains on the S & M was eventually relegated to stone traffic until withdrawn in 1931 and cut up in 1937.

 

First image is the chassis cut from brass sheet and some nickle silver off cuts from previous kit etches. I have used brass sprung axle boxes on the trailing wheels and left the drivers unsprung. Using a 40:1 Roxy gear box and an 1833 Mashima. This motor fitted with 1mm to spare. The motor/gearbox unit actually needed to be flip over to allow it to sit lower. As stated it has 1mm clearances under the firebox and backhead.

post-150-12661814927503_thumb.jpg

 

Now to the body. Here is the basic footplate fretted out and ready for the body.

post-150-12661815359369_thumb.jpg

 

The boiler was rolled and using three laminations the smokebox was rolled and shaped to match the smoke box front. The bunker and cab sides were simple boxes and riveted striped made to attach round the tops.

The tank parts are cut and ready for assembly. I used thin card to make templates which make it easy to accurately cut the brass sheet for a perfect fit first time.

post-150-12661816159933_thumb.jpg

 

The tank is soldered up and attached to the boiler. The sand baxes and tool box made at this time, again simple boxes folded up in the Metal Smith folding bars.

post-150-1266181896354_thumb.jpg

 

I forgot to mention the boiler bands. These were attached before the boiler was fitted. So much easier than after fitting it to the loco. The boiler will be filled with lead. I like heavy locos.

post-150-12661820159717_thumb.jpg

 

I now have the cab front/rear & roof to cut and fold. Again I will make a card one first as getting the port holes and bends correct will be a bit tricky. Then it's all down to the detailing.

Just beautiful Ken - not much more I can say, other than I look forward to the next instalment.

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Looking great Ken...

 

I know there are lots of methods for cutting long straight lines when scratchbuilding (tops of frames etc), but just wondering if you would like to elucidate on your method ??

 

JB.

 

 

Elucidating is a speciality of mine (Some call it aimless rambling). Here is the basics of the various tools I use. Other much used on the WB are calipers and a pillar drill, metal shears, bending & rolling bars not forgetting the Leaky riveting tool.

 

After marking out the work using the dividers to check all is absolutely parallel, I then use the fret saw to make the shortest cut.

 

(You keep the thickness of the blade to the off cut side) Then use the yellow handled tool (Squires) and steel ruler to make a groove along the other edge. Again just a fraction to the off cut side.

 

Then over the edge of the bench and holding the work with a thick flat bar, gently bend the work downwards from the groove and back upwards. Doing this twice will break the cut. You then have to use a long flat file to take the sharp edge off and square up the edge(s) cut with the fret saw.

 

On work too small to hold over the edge of the bench, I clamp in in the Metal Smith bending bars instead. They are so useful, I cannot imagine how I managed without them.

 

post-150-12662245947649_thumb.jpg

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Thanks for the kind comment Rob. Here is a little more progress. I find the detailing very time comsuming.

 

The cab roof took a bit of time to get it right and then cut it out and bend to shape. For the backhead I used plastikard plus a few castings from the scrap box.

 

Tomorrow starts the detiling in earnest.

 

post-150-12662564980846_thumb.jpg

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Ken, would you mind telling me whose drawing you used and where I might obtain one?

 

I really fancy having a go at a scratch build and this looks just the sort of thing that is simple enough as a starter. I loved your Armstrong Whitworth but the wife would never forgive me if I built a diesel. And seeing as she encourages and indulges me I see no point in spoiling it. :rolleyes:

 

Thanks.

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