Jump to content
 

Catering and the Law at Model Railway shows


russianlayout

Recommended Posts

A heads up for any exhibition managers who provide their own catering at shows (venues which provide catering on behalf of the show will no doubt already comply with this ruling as they would be operating commercial kitchens)

 

Sevenoaks Council have contacted us to confirm we hold the correct certificates and food preparation for our show in July.  I am lucky that we get to use the school kitchen to prepare our refreshments which is a commercial kitchen and we use our own staff who have hygiene certificates as they are from our theatre and that also has commercial kitchen facilities. We make our sandwiches at the theatre and package them there on the night before and this is allowed.  If done at my house however, it's breaking the law.

 

Some of the smaller shows or those in church halls etc may without being aware, be breaking the law in regarding to providing catering facilities.    A tea urn, sink and table in a room off the main hall is not a commercial kitchen! You are limited to what you can sell and who can prepare the food and what you can prepare.

 

Here are some things which will help you stay the right side of the law.   Sevenoaks Council picked on us to prove we were within the law, as they saw a poster stating we were providing refreshments so look likes councils are doing spot checks.   

 

Regarding food hygiene regulations as explained to me by Sevenoaks CC, The actual law is only broken once money changes hand from caterer to public but the law is enforced at the point that food is being offered for sale.  ie advertised.    They can ban or restrict the sale of food at an event from the moment it states refreshments on a model railway event listing in a mag for instance and request that the prep is done with the law (as has just happened to us).  We passed by the way!

 

 

These rules apply to any organisation providing food which the public pay for and even if it is not for commercial gain ie this applies to every model railway show

 

Any hot food requires the staff to have a basic hygiene certificate if preparing on site, includes just heating pies in microwave if the pie is taken out of pre sealed wrapper before handed to the customer ie 99% of the time (this can be done as a simple online course) bacon butty anyone!

 

Hot food must be kept at a certain temp and only allowed to be on display for sale for a set period of time

 

No cross contamination of food in preparation, ie you need different coloured chopping boards for meats and veg if preparing sandwiches on site. 

 

Any sandwiches which are prepared by you away from the site must be done in a commercial kitchen or be bought from a supplier ie supermarket sandwiches etc or commercial caterer.  

 

Homemade cakes believe it or not can't be sold if actually made in someone's private kitchen  

 

Cakes /cookies bought from a shop and in sealed wrapping can be sold without the need for a hygiene certificate

 

Basically

 

If you sell bacon butties. jacket potatoes, soup etc  - any hot food, hygiene certificate required and food storage and prep rules apply

 

If you prepare sandwiches off site - these cannot be prepared in domestic kitchen (if given to exhibitors as lunch , they can be prepared at home as not being actually sold).   Sandwiches cannot be prepared on site unless site has facilities which allows commercial preparation of food or can meet that requirement.  (No wooden surfaces used for food prep, direct access to hand washing facilities, and meets the cross contamination and storage rules)

 

If you sell homemade cakes - cannot be from a domestic kitchen and cakes  if not wrapped when bought will require a hygiene certificate to sell

 

If you sell cakes / cookies / choccy bars / crisps / fizzy drinks / tea / coffee / squash and the cakes and cookies were bought pre packed - you are able to sell these without breaking any laws and no hygiene certificate is required.

 

The online hygiene certificate course only costs about £25 to do and only needs one person to do it who is responsible for the food preparation (servers not required to have it)

 

Considering most shows provide catering and many charge commercial rates for the food ie £2.00 plus for a sandwich or bacon butty, then it is only right that show managers take food hygiene law into account when planning a show. 

 

Things like food hygiene rules should be taken on par with exhibition insurance, health and safety etc by show managers and is one of the few things that can actually get you fined and part shut down on the day of the event ie banned from selling refreshments. 

 

General public at exhibitions, don't accept second best just because the funds may be going to a local club, if refreshments are being advertised as a facility and sold to you, if you feel such food is not being prepared or served to basic hygiene law standards yet still charged for, kick up a fuss and make it known that food cant be sold.  Ask to see the hygiene certificate, if they don't have one walk away and don't buy. Show managers have a duty of care and must operate within the law and it's your health.   Has that cheese and pickle sandwich been made in a house where cats walk across the kitchen table and dogs are brushed or babies nappies are changed on worktops.   Is that worktop oak? and if so what other stuff it is got stuck to it..

 

Hot food given away as part of lunches for exhibitors, it is ok and not breaking the law to have the odd cat hair in from when the food was made at 43 Acadia Ave. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Premium

They have been in place and regulated up in Leeds for a long time.  Some schools won't let you use their kitchens etc if the PFI doesn't allow it.

 

We are lucky that we use a venue who use their staff to provide an excellent food and drink service throughout the show. While it means we don't make money from teh catering it does mean we have a lot less hassle.

 

 

Baz

Link to post
Share on other sites

It is for this reason too that we use the College facilities plus their staff to prepare all meals, etc., for Rotarail. It costs us, although the College pricing is extremely reasonable, and detracts from the profit we give to charity. What it does do, though, is give us peace of mind that we are not about to be pounced on by the local Council - and the food is better prepared by professionals!

Chris

Link to post
Share on other sites

I met someone recently who makes large cakes that she supplies to local cafes, coffee shops, etc. who sell them as "home made". She does this in the comfort of her own kitchen, aided by her husband (a retired police chief inspector)  who does all the ordering of ingredients, etc.

 

I wonder how that fits within the law?

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Gold

I met someone recently who makes large cakes that she supplies to local cafes, coffee shops, etc. who sell them as "home made". She does this in the comfort of her own kitchen, aided by her husband (a retired police chief inspector)  who does all the ordering of ingredients, etc. I wonder how that fits within the law?

It is perfectly legal if the kitchen is properly registered with the local authority and compliant with the appropriate hygiene legislation. My wife runs a successful cake business from home and is fully compliant.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't think implementing good food hygiene can be shot down as Nanny State.

 

The problem is if it doesnt apply to everyone then unscrupulous people will use it to their advantage and people will get ill.

 

As food poisoning can only only make you poorly but kill you then I think it is right if you are selling stuff to the general public then it should be expected you comply with safe practice as regulated.

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Gold

It is perfectly legal if the kitchen is properly registered with the local authority and compliant with the appropriate hygiene legislation. My wife runs a successful cake business from home and is fully compliant.

 

Cor - a compliant wife, now that really is worth recording

 

(Sorry Colin but I couldn't resist that one - now back to the serious subject, none of which I understand is actually new but has been around for some time)

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Premium

At Wakefield we've been well aware of this for a while as we use a council facility. However we sub contract the catering to a firm that has to have a council health rating.   They are then responsible for all the food hygiene regs.   The council insist on seeing the certificates and star ratings for our catering contractor.

 

Funnily enough the biggest problem that we've had is that the facility is a temporary one in what is normally a gym/dance/exercise studio.  Apprently the ladies who use it dodn't like the lingering smell of bacon butties and burgers so we now have to take the curtains down and re hang them after the show and can't fry food in the room.  The burgers have to be cooked outside then brought in.

 

Jamie

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Gold

Cor - a compliant wife, now that really is worth recording (Sorry Colin but I couldn't resist that one - now back to the serious subject, none of which I understand is actually new but has been around for some time)

When I wrote it I did think I might be leaving an open goal. Nice finish :)

Link to post
Share on other sites

All good stuff from the nanny state. Whatever did we do before? Don't reply with salmonella or some other similar bugs, we used to be taught how to respect our food correctly. Never had an issue in all my long life.

. Taught by whom and to what standards and what do you think a basic food hygiene course covers apart from how to respect food correctly?

Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't think implementing good food hygiene can be shot down as Nanny State.

 

The problem is if it doesnt apply to everyone then unscrupulous people will use it to their advantage and people will get ill.

 

As food poisoning can only only make you poorly but kill you then I think it is right if you are selling stuff to the general public then it should be expected you comply with safe practice as regulated.

 

I think you are missing the point, yes, we need to have these rules now but in the past we never had the need. Regulations are there to stop abuse whether it is the processors or the distributors or individuals. Making a quick buck is more important now and that is the nanny state rearing it's ugly head with regulations we can't read quick enough before the next one arrives, sometimes countermanding the last one. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Premium

Information copied from the Food Standards Agency Website on this page that specifically relates to 'Catering Advice for Charity and Community Groups Providing Food'

http://www.food.gov.uk/business-industry/caterers/food-hygiene/charity-community-groups

 

There is no rule banning the sale of homemade cakes at school fetes or other community events. Homemade cakes should be safe to eat, as long as the people who make them follow good food hygiene advice and the cakes are stored and transported safely.

 

Food hygiene certificates are not a legal requirement. If you are selling or handling food at a charity event, you need to do so safely but a qualification is not essential.

 

A community hall kitchen will not need to be registered as a food business on its own but groups using it should ensure that it is kept clean and that food preparation areas are suitably disinfected after use.. The hall management should ensure it is structurally sound and meets any other relevant legislation.

 

 

 

At the bottom of that page is a link that takes you to another document where I have copied the following.

 

 

Operations such as the occasional handling, preparation, storage and serving of food by private persons at events such as church, school or village fairs are not covered by the scope of the Regulation. This is made clear in recital 9 of Regulation (EC) No 852/2004. The second sentence states that:  
‘Community rules should only apply to undertakings, the concept of which implies a certain continuity of activities and a certain degree of organisation.’    The term ‘undertaking’ is integrated in the definition of a ‘food business’ (in accordance with Article 3(2) of the General Food Law (Regulation (EC) No 178/2002), a ‘food business’ must be an ‘undertaking’). Somebody who handles, prepares, stores or serves food occasionally and on a small scale (e.g. a church, school or village fair and other situations such as organised charities comprising individual volunteers where the food is prepared occasionally) cannot be considered as an ‘undertaking’ and is therefore not subject to the requirements of Community hygiene legislation. 

 

Generally, community or charity operations providing food less frequently than one occasion per month should be considered as not having a continuity of activity and should not require registration

 

 

This all seems to be common sense and just shows that not everything has to be registered or controlled as the original post implied - but it's all good advice and as many shows use the kitchens of the venue then you have to comply with their terms of hire.

 

.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Information copied from the Food Standards Agency Website on this page that specifically relates to 'Catering Advice for Charity and Community Groups Providing Food'

http://www.food.gov.uk/business-industry/caterers/food-hygiene/charity-community-groups

 

 

 

At the bottom of that page is a link that takes you to another document where I have copied the following.

 

 

 

This all seems to be common sense and just shows that not everything has to be registered or controlled as the original post implied - but it's all good advice and as many shows use the kitchens of the venue then you have to comply with their terms of hire.

 

.

This is fine until something goes wrong and accusations of food poisoning occur. This happened locally some years ago.

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Premium

This is fine until something goes wrong and accusations of food poisoning occur. This happened locally some years ago.

 

Yes I agree but that wasn't the point I was making - my comments were about legislation and registration. Every Exhibition should have insurance should there be any unfortunate incidents and providing you have followed the published guidance in the link I provided then you cannot be at fault.

 

.

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Premium

Has that cheese and pickle sandwich been made in a house where cats walk across the kitchen table and dogs are brushed or babies nappies are changed on worktops.  

Thanks for sharing that thought with us. I think... :O

 

However, I suspect if many people knew what went on in some commercial food prep and packing plants they'd never eat anything...

Link to post
Share on other sites

good info on charity groups from Mike, but I know we don't qualify as a charity group, so think Sevenoaks County council  were correct in checking us.   Also 99% of model railway clubs running model railway shows are not charities or even community groups but members run non profit clubs which require a subscription and so don't think will qualify for the exemption.    Also the statement from Food agency suggests registered charities, if you are holding an event where you give the proceeds to charity, you are not actually a charity.

 

Bottom line it is local environmental health who decide and allow food to be served or not, and  that was who checked on us.  

 

Public liability insurance for model railway shows I assume covers food poisoning or ill health, just knowing insurance, if they can wiggle out of it they would,  

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Premium

It was quite amusing at a recent [otherwise well planned] event to see multiple trips being made to Tesco owing to drastic under-ordering in the bacon dept!

 

Dava

Link to post
Share on other sites

Second rule - don't overstock on egg mayo sandwiches - lesson we had to learn last year!  

Rather don't sell them at all. That you would willfully and with malice aforethought inflict the inevitable, silent but deadly, malodorous byproduct of such things (riper than the most totemic unwashed exhibit viewer) on a standing crowd of layout onlookers amidst the wrinkled noses and sniggers, along the lines of 'who smelt it dealt it', is worthy of the evilest super villain. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Cakes/cookies bought from a shop and in sealed wrapping can be sold without the need for a hygiene certificate

 

If you sell cakes / cookies / choccy bars / crisps / fizzy drinks / tea / coffee / squash and the cakes and cookies were bought pre packed - you are able to sell these without breaking any laws and no hygiene certificate is required.

 

Oh, yes, because anything purchased pre-packed will of course be pass any hygiene test with flying colours, having quite possibly been prepared on a production line, manned by a low-paid, low-skilled workforce, maybe even spitting, urinating, (or any other atrocity that one might conjure up) into the vats of cookie dough before it leaves the factory. :bad:

 

Nanny State gone crazy once again...  :scratchhead:

Link to post
Share on other sites

I am all in favour of the health and hygene laws as it attempts to stop any get rich quick merchants who don't give a damn about public safety.

 

Before we moved our exhibition to a new venue which had its own cafe I asked a freind who is a health and hygene inspector about catering for the exhibitors. She said the best thing for us to do is outsource all food/sandwiches from a registered supplier (ie. a sandwich shop), ensuring everything is sealed and dated, this will in effect stop any fingers being pointed in our direction if anything does go amiss, the hammer will fall on the shops head if there is a case of food poisening.

For the exhibitors drinks we are ok with the tea urn etc as long as we do not charge and is run on a help yourself basis.

 

The catering for the public is contracted caterers which come with the hall. In theory we should have no come-back to ourselves as organisers, which takes a lot of strain off us.

The only problems we have had is the complaints from the public about the price of food etc in the cafe, but this is completely out of our control.

Alan

Link to post
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.


×
×
  • Create New...