Terminiology for track

[rue_d_etropal]

When I started with m 3D printed track, I was aiming at train modellers not just tram modellers, but soon did specifically tram versions with tighter curves. One thing is knowing what to call it.

I used the term tram track, but train modellers get confused. Chris Leigh, in his review, used the term 'tracks in the road' or something similar. I find that a bit of a mouthful, and best suits lines like the one in Weymouth. Nothing wrong in that, but for smaller harbours/quaysides and industrial area I prefer the term 'inset track', but have been told that might confuse some.

Now I have found another term, used by the original manufacturers. The term 'Flush railway for workshop' in a reprint of a 1915 Robert Hudson catalogue. Seems terminology was a bit of an issue then, or maybe marketing trying to use different name to help promote their product. It is a bit of a mouthfull, and the catalogue suggests flat infill, not cobbles.

[Mike Bellamy]

Simon

 

Could it be called 'inlaid track' ?

 

You only have 6 weeks to decide before you bring your trade stand to our Derby show !!

 

Mike

 

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[rue_d_etropal]

Mike, a lot more water will flow under bridge before Derby. I am working on new display ideas though.

As for terminology, I prefer 'Inlaid/inset track', but I have had discussions and historically it is very mixed up. On an old map I have it shows what I know as narrow gauge industrial lines as 'tramway' to distinguish them from 'mainline' standard gauge. As far as I know there was no road along those lines.

Almost as mixed up as points and switches.

All my naming standards on computer use 'tram' mainly because it is short and easy to spot. It is difficult to change names now, especially as there are probably well over 200++ items,As I have an IT background, I think I have been more organised in this respect, but still do have trouble finding files sometimes. As I was initially only doing track for trains, I grouped the sharper radius tram track under same heading and section, but have now grouped the purely tram track under its own section.

[PLD]

"Inset" or "Embedded" track are the usual terms used in tramway circles. Sometimes "Paved track" is also used particularly where it is not shared with other motor vehicles.

[rue_d_etropal]

the quote I am now using is from iain Rice in his book, Designs for Urban Railways.

' Paved track in granite setts, a true signiature of the urban/industrial/docklands railway, if ever there was one.'

 

Had not originally noticed that Iain had used term 'Paved'. Odd thing is, I had not seen it referred to that way elsewhere. .I think I will probably use all the terms on info boards starting with the Derby exhibition and can now properly plan as list of exhibitors is now online and I know which module to take. I am only at planning stage for new tram module so it will be my mini French railway with inset/inlaid/paved/tram track. Not flush though as it is is cobbled!

[Southernboy]

This topic got my interest as it came under the topic heading 'Trams and Tramway Modelling' - in which I have a passing interest - and then I just ended up quite confused with all that followed.

 

My comments below are linked with having viewed earlier today the pictures of 3D printed track on the thread 'Tramway Stud Contact Current Collection. So I hope I haven't put 2+2 together and = 3 (or 5) !

 

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If it's a matter of differentiating the wider-curved products for railway modellers, and the tighter-curved products for tramway modellers, then wouldn't it be a matter of simply saying something like:

 

Product A: Cobbled Railway Tracks = Cobbled road surface for standard railway tracks  (standard curves)

Product B: Cobbled Tram Tracks = Cobbled road surface for town tramway tracks  ((tighter curves)

 

I think as soon as you get into the realms of 'inset / paved / embedded' you lose clarity about what are expected to run on them.

Similarly, 'inset' or 'embedded' could refer to rails in concrete, tarmac etc, and 'paved' could be any sort of paving arrangement from any era, whereas the product I saw elsewhere was cobbled: Cobbles are quite specific in most peoples minds

 

Sorry if I misunderstood anything along the way.  I guess I'm thinking out loud as I try to clarify in my mind the question and points raised

 

Ultimately I'm just an uninformed 'punter' who likes things to do what they say on the tin 

[kevinlms]

This link may be of some use.

 

http://tdu.to/Files/AppendixB_YarraTrams_Tram_Track_Design_SpecificationV1-4.pdf

[rue_d_etropal]

interesting that on each page, titles use term 'tram track'. Technically there are many differences, making it more difficult I believe to mix railways and tramways, and possibly use of the term 'light rail'.

Thinking about current Manchester system, much of that is on old railway routes. I think that maybe if they had realised it would grow so much then low level platforms would have been used, as it sure adds to cost in city centre. Also the the word 'tram' is not in name. This is what must happen when light rail railways combine with traditional tramways. It hasn't stopped steam locos making their way into city though.

It is a pity many in model railway hobby seem to wear blinkers and don't have any interest outside their ,often, very narrow band of interest. Hence why I may be using every  word possible to explain my track system at exhibitions.

[roythebus]

May I suggest the question be put on the "handbuilt track and Templot" forum on here? I'm sure Martin Wynne will come up with the correct technical terms you want. There seems to be one for every item of track!

[rue_d_etropal]

getting technical people involved tends to confuse things for everyday people. we all use incorrect names for parts of track, but those terms are the ones understood by most people, in particular novices. I think I have enough names now.

[SharpSharp]

This sounds like a very basic suggestion, but how about Tramway Track.

 

To the best of my knowledge it is the correct term for when a railway runs along a roadway.

[rue_d_etropal]

Originally when I started my 3D printed track I was aiming at railway modellers, and say 'tram' to many railway modellers and they don't associate it with railway operations in docks and industrial areas. I have been surprised by number of terms used though, although each makes sense. will use all terms I have found on my info board.

[RobClogs]

Whatever happened to the term "tram rails"? Or is that a foreign invention?

http://rails.arcelormittal.com/en/tram-rails.html

[rue_d_etropal]

I wonder if it is like hat has been happening with terminology with computers and software. The names change(new sales pitch) but the products don't actually change.

[Pacific231G]

getting technical people involved tends to confuse things for everyday people. we all use incorrect names for parts of track, but those terms are the ones understood by most people, in particular novices. I think I have enough names now.

Whatever certain pedants might want us to believe (and not just in our field of interest)  If they're the terms used by most people then they can't be incorrect as English is a language defined by accepted common usage not by statutory authority. For example, in British English "set of points" or simply "points" are the more commonly used synonyms for what PW engineers and Americans are inclined to call turnouts and actually the only term one that appears in the OED and while I personally regret the increasing replacement of railway station with train station I can't say that it's bad English.. 

 

"Tramway" is particularly interesting especially as it appears on OS maps because it can mean the street railway used for public transport in more enlightened cities but it also appears a great deal around such things as mines and quarries where there are often also "proper" railways to indicate the rough railway tracks often used for jobs like carrying mine waste to the tips. 

For public railways the French of course had a legal definiiton; a tramway (they adopted the English word) was a railway that ran for two thirds or more of its length on or alongside public roads. The "alongside" was interesting as it generally wasn't inset but laid fairly conventionally on sleepers and ballast on what would have been the verge. 

 

I tend to regard "inset track" as that used by a conventional "heavy" railway when it has to cross or run along roads and particilarly quaysides; this would frequently use a double rail  each side with a fairly deep flangeway between them. For an urban tramway running along the street I'd expect to see a single grooved (Brocca) rail inset into the road surface.

It may be that for your products "inset railway track" and "inset tramway track" (or just tramway track) will give the differentiation  you need.  

ISTR that the gauge used by Glasgow Corporation Tramways for their grooved tramway track was slightly narrower than normal so that standard gauge locos from the several loco builders in the city could be run down to the docks for export supported by their deeper than tramcar wheel flanges running along the base of the groove with the actual tyres slightly proud of the rail *

 

*Just comfirmed that and it was 4ft 7³/₄inches though it may have been mainly to allow railway wagons to use the system to access various works. That's intrguing as the central Paris markets "Les Halles" used to be supplied by railway wagons hauled by steam tram lcoos that used certain sections of the city's tramway network at night but I've not heard of them being anything other than standard gauge  .

[Gwiwer]

It can depend upon the cross-section of the track being produced / discussed.  Living now in a city with arguably the largest tramway network in the world and having for some years worked for them I am familiar with the jargon used here and also that it is not necessarily universal.

 

Tramway rails which are to be inset into a road and which will be flush with a concrete or asphalt surface usually have a grooved outrigger to the upper surface in which the tram wheels run and which prevents the unwanted overspill of the road surfacing material.  This is known as "grooved tramway rail" or, from its cross-section when inverted, "h-section rail".  Rail used for trains rather than trams is referred to as "heavy rail" or "I-section rail" because, with serifs on the I, that letter resembles the cross-section of the rails.  

[Pacific231G]

I wonder if it is like hat has been happening with terminology with computers and software. The names change(new sales pitch) but the products don't actually change.

Hi Simon

A similar thing happened when Desktop Publishing first appeared. The software manufacturers used a number of print industry terms, many of which are now fairly familiar, but with rather different meanings possibly through ignorance. For example "Font" as used in just about every application that handles text, including this one, usually means what printers and compositors would call a "Typeface" as a Font was a particular typeface at a particular size. for best appearance in the printed document, fonts of different sizes would normally have slightly different weights for some parts of letters and a different separation between them. Most software simply rescales everything. That may seem esoteric but if you're trying to use the typeface adopted by say a railway company it can make quite a significant difference.   

[SharpSharp]

Having suggested Tramway Track, I think I now prefer Grooved Track. It removes suggestion that its just for running trams on.

 

I tend to say Grooved Track for on street sections of tramway and Reserved Track for off street sections. This can cause confusion when discussing the groved track used on tight corners of a reserved section of tramway.