D5541 Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 They say the only stupid question is the one you don't ask..., With that in mind, I will put this one forward for answering... Having recently built a couple of the Dapol ventilated meat van kits, I was wondering, what were the prototypes actually used for? (and if anyone says simply, meat, they'll be beaten with a stick :-) ) What kind of things did they convey and from where to where? I'm assuming being non refrigerated whatever it was would have been moderately short haul for quick turnaround without spoiling? Or salted meats over long distance? Crates of stuff from abbotoir to factory for processing? Cheers Dan :-) 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmrspaul Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 (edited) They are more correctly written "Fresh Meat". They worked long distances from the abattoirs near the cattle producing areas to the the large wholesale markets that each major town would have had. So stick me. Paul Edited March 23, 2016 by hmrspaul 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AberdeenBill Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 Did I read somewhere that the original colour of these vans was passenger crimson (rather than brown/bauxite)? Did they have a steam pipe? One survived at Eastleigh as an internal user for many years. Bill 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 Did I read somewhere that the original colour of these vans was passenger crimson (rather than brown/bauxite)? Did they have a steam pipe? One survived at Eastleigh as an internal user for many years. Bill They were supposed to have been painted in crimson (later maroon) with yellow lettering, I believe. They didn't have a steam pipe. As the meat would have been freshly slaughtered and butchered, it would have been sufficient to have copious amounts of (relatively) fresh air blowing across the meat to stop it getting too warm; beef is often hung like this to mature it even today. These wagons were virtually obsolete even when built, however, being replaced by ventliated containers, and then by insulated ones, before the traffic disappeared off on to the roads. The vans soldiered on; many were subsequently branded 'ALE', and used for traffic from Guinness, Park Royal, whilst others had the side vents and all but the top end vents sheeted over, and were used as ordinary Vanfits. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevex59 Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 According to my books, B870073 still survives at Bodmin and Wenford railway. It was previously numbered 083315 which was a southern allocated internal user although I can not remember where it was based. so its probably the one Aberdeen Bill remembers. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmrspaul Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 According to my books, B870073 still survives at Bodmin and Wenford railway. It was previously numbered 083315 which was a southern allocated internal user although I can not remember where it was based. so its probably the one Aberdeen Bill remembers. It is the same one, although where they got the number from is unknown as it was B870067 http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brmeatvan 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wheatley Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 D5541, on 23 Mar 2016 - 11:21, said: What kind of things did they convey and from where to where? There's a picture on Science and Society showing an insulated container being unloaded. The meat is in the form of full carcasses hung from hooks in the roof. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
leopardml2341 Posted March 24, 2016 Share Posted March 24, 2016 It is the same one, although where they got the number from is unknown as it was B870067 http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brmeatvan Hi Paul, Link not working at 01:14, 24/03/16 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swindon 123 Posted March 24, 2016 Share Posted March 24, 2016 One survived at Norwich in almost original livery but bauxite not crimson, until the mid 80's in use by the S&T. Photo of it here https://flic.kr/p/uJXpB1 Paul J. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
leopardml2341 Posted March 24, 2016 Share Posted March 24, 2016 (edited) The vans soldiered on; many were subsequently branded 'ALE', and used for traffic from Guinness, Park Royal, Do any of you good folk have pics of the branding lettering please? Edit; realised that it might not be clear that it's the 'ALE' branding I'm trying to find details of. Edited March 24, 2016 by leopardml2341 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshall5 Posted March 24, 2016 Share Posted March 24, 2016 I've always understood that the meat vans went from passenger stock crimson to freight stock bauxite with the 1956 livery revisions and none were painted maroon. Happy to be corrected though! Ray. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold ROSSPOP Posted March 24, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 24, 2016 (edited) Don`t know if this helps but this one I made from an airfix kit with upgraded chassis parts........... Edited March 24, 2016 by ROSSPOP 11 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmrspaul Posted March 24, 2016 Share Posted March 24, 2016 (edited) One survived at Norwich in almost original livery but bauxite not crimson, until the mid 80's in use by the S&T. Photo of it here https://flic.kr/p/uJXpB1 Paul J. http://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/brmeatvan/e3a327794 agreed original BR orange freight stock red. Edited March 24, 2016 by hmrspaul 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brossard Posted October 6, 2017 Share Posted October 6, 2017 I just received the Dapol 7mm Meat Van. It is in crimson and very good IMO, it even has pivoted beam compensation. http://www.hattons.co.uk/255280/Dapol_7F_054_001_12_ton_Meat_Van_870060_in_BR_crimson/StockDetail.aspx My question is what coupling would have been used?. The pictures linked to by Paul mostly show instanter, which is how the model is equipped. However, surely passenger rated stock would have screw link. Another question that comes to mind is why no steam pipe on the original builds? If these were capable of being marshalled with coaching stock, they would need a steam pipe I should have thought. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AberdeenBill Posted October 6, 2017 Share Posted October 6, 2017 I just received the Dapol 7mm Meat Van. It is in crimson and very good IMO, it even has pivoted beam compensation. http://www.hattons.co.uk/255280/Dapol_7F_054_001_12_ton_Meat_Van_870060_in_BR_crimson/StockDetail.aspx My question is what coupling would have been used?. The pictures linked to by Paul mostly show instanter, which is how the model is equipped. However, surely passenger rated stock would have screw link. Another question that comes to mind is why no steam pipe on the original builds? If these were capable of being marshalled with coaching stock, they would need a steam pipe I should have thought. John Nice model (fantastic underframe that can accommodate so many different BR wagons) but the colour looks more like scarlet than crimson on my screen... Bill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brossard Posted October 6, 2017 Share Posted October 6, 2017 Kind of an illusive colour Bill. My friend looked at it and thought it was at the red end of the spectrum of bauxite. This probably has a lot to do with the ambient light. I'm not going to quibble about that, once it's weathered it won't matter. Yes, the underframe is brilliant, I have several of Dapols' 10' WB wagons (which are identical to Lionheart). John 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PhilJ W Posted October 6, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 6, 2017 I understand that they were rapidly redeployed due to derailments. Hanging meat is a difficult load as it tends to swing upsetting the centre of gravity. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmrspaul Posted October 6, 2017 Share Posted October 6, 2017 (edited) I just received the Dapol 7mm Meat Van. It is in crimson and very good IMO, it even has pivoted beam compensation. http://www.hattons.co.uk/255280/Dapol_7F_054_001_12_ton_Meat_Van_870060_in_BR_crimson/StockDetail.aspx My question is what coupling would have been used?. The pictures linked to by Paul mostly show instanter, which is how the model is equipped. However, surely passenger rated stock would have screw link. Another question that comes to mind is why no steam pipe on the original builds? If these were capable of being marshalled with coaching stock, they would need a steam pipe I should have thought. John They were XP not passenger rated. Very few XP wagons had through steam pipes. Instanter couplings were much cheaper than screw couplings and BR used them extensively - especially on these relatively early builds after nationalisation. They have GWR instanters on official photos, indeed B870006 (IIRC as used on the Airfix box) has split spoke wheels. Fortunately Dapol/Lionheart have a split spoke wheel available as used on their PO minerals [only a few would have had these, BR used any wheel they could find!). Paul Edited October 6, 2017 by hmrspaul 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brossard Posted October 6, 2017 Share Posted October 6, 2017 Well Phil, I do know that BR lost the fresh meat traffic to the roads and that by the mid 60s they were redeployed as general merchandise vans, receiving their bauxite livery sometime after that. My layout is set in 1962 (or so) so I reckon they would still be crimson. Thanks Paul. Good to know that spoked wheels could be used, although all those pictured in your link have disc. I shall leave things alone then I think, although I will probably fit a much better Slaters vac pipe/hose. John 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmrspaul Posted October 7, 2017 Share Posted October 7, 2017 Thanks Paul. Good to know that spoked wheels could be used, although all those pictured in your link have disc. I shall leave things alone then I think, although I will probably fit a much better Slaters vac pipe/hose. John Fair enough, although the split spokes do make a nice difference - my Open Merch with hybar and VB now has them - again following on a photo taken in the late 1970s. And good for getting one up on the not it alls that tell you they can't have had these old wheels - I don't believe new split spokes were manufactured after the early 1920s, possibly earlier. Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brossard Posted October 7, 2017 Share Posted October 7, 2017 Very good point Paul. Having a feature on our wagons that contradicts conventional wisdom, but is nevertheless correct, is very satisfying. I don't have any Dapol/LH spoked wheels to hand at the moment. At least the wheels use pinpoint bearings and are a doddle to change (although I haven't seen these seen offered separate for sale). John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmrspaul Posted October 7, 2017 Share Posted October 7, 2017 I don't have any Dapol/LH spoked wheels to hand at the moment. At least the wheels use pinpoint bearings and are a doddle to change (although I haven't seen these seen offered separate for sale). John I swapped mine with a Private Trader wagon which had the split spokes - but I think was a bit too modern to have them being newly built before WW2. I've seen these wheels criticised elsewhere because they are not the standard used in O gauge - but the pinpoint does mean that a layout has to be absolutely flat, they find the slightest gradient and roll! Paul 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brossard Posted October 7, 2017 Share Posted October 7, 2017 Yes, Paul, the Slaters type with sleeve bearings do roll very nicely but perhaps have that little bit of friction due to contact area preventing them from running away on slight gradients. However, getting these out after build is a tad hazardous because the axleboxes have to be bent sharply to clear the axles. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim.snowdon Posted October 7, 2017 Share Posted October 7, 2017 Split, or Open spoke wheels were still being made right up to at least the outbreak of the Second World War. What many modellers overlook completely is that to the railways, a wheel is a wheel, and so long as a wheelset, ie two wheels and the axle, meet the requirements for diameter, journal size, load capacity and condition, whether they are spoked or disc, solid or split spoke is immaterial. Wagons going through build or overhaul got the next available sets of wheels, whatever they were. The tyres would be replaced at intervals, depending on wear and the number of times they had been re-profiled, and the axle and wheel centres lasted almost indefinitely, so long as they weren't damaged or in poor condition, ie severely corroded. Jim 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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