RNAS Glencruitten - Relocating Lenabo

[Caley Jim]

Like everything on your layout, I'd imagine?

Comme ca?

 

Jim

[Northroader]

Penny plain, tuppence coloured, - I’d pay tuppence any day for Kirkallanmuir.

[Argos]

Following my post last night questioning the WW1 camouflage palette I did some searching around the web and found some of my basic assumptions wanting.

 

I had assumed, based on casting my over a few black and white photos of the airship sheds they would be three colours, and on a hunch I assumed probably brown and dark green ( sand and spinach as per WW2 RAF camouflage) with a much lighter green as a third colour.

 

 

 

There was no research behind this, it is just the colour palette that flickered into my head.

 

Delving deeper, camouflage first came to the fore in WW1, primarily due to presence of aircraft and balloon observation.

This new form of transport enabled objects to be seen from a greater distance and hence the need for disguise.

 

The French started the new science but the British soon took up the reigns.

Up to 1918 (there have been examples in WW2 and more recently also) there was a view that you will never hide a ship or an aeroplane so it would better to disrupt the view and make the object harder to identify and target.

Thus "Dazzle"  camouflage was born.

 

This seems to have be applied to a lot of shipping (including aircraft carriers as demonstrated by HMS Argus below:-

 

 

And also aircraft as shown by the rather superb cover painting on the Felixstowe F.2a flying boat by Wingnut wings ( I have a hankering to build this kit but I'm trying stay focused!)

 

 

I am discounting "dazzle" as a finish for the airship sheds, although stunning, the Dazzle camouflage is very angular and I can see no photos to support this.

All the photos of the airship bases show a typical "spoldgy" pattern or irregular strips of solid colour.

 

So what about more standard camouflage?

Again, this was surprising colourful with quite a large palette.

 

First up we have an American WW1 tank (it's actually a French Renault built under licence).

 

 

Although not British the provenience is strong as the restoration team stripped back several layers of paint and took samples from the layer immediately over the primer covering the metal.

 

The colours are quite surprising but reminiscent of the Caunter camouflage scheme used on British vehicles in WW2.

 

 

A WW1 period poster shows a similar paint scheme:-

 

 

Looking around several other web sites it appears that the norm was more restrained, if not a simple green colour then the palette on the howitzer and tank below seem to be the most common, 

 

 

 

 

I think this scheme is the most likely and will be visually stunning (I think anyway!).

 

The question of the four colours did niggle as I could only detect three colours in most of the photos of the airship sheds.

A couple of times I almost convinced myself there was four but came to the conclusion this was wishful thinking.

 

I then printed the last photo above in black and white.

 

 

I realise this in no way replicates the colour sensitivity of the photographic film in use during WW1 but it clearly shows how different colours "disappear" in black and white, the brown and green being virtually indistinguishable.

 

So I have my four colours, unless any can convince me otherwise?

 

Incidentally  I can find no evidence for the black dividing line between the colours as seems to be in use on the vehicles above.

 

 

I appreciate this post is a long way from railways in a model railway forum, hopefully some of you will find it interesting and it will explain my, at first glance, strange painting of the airship shed.

[Branwell]

 

WW1 tank.jpg

 

I think this scheme is the most likely and will be visually stunning (I think anyway!).

 

The question of the four colours did niggle as I could only detect three colours in most of the photos of the airship sheds.

A couple of times I almost convinced myself there was four but came to the conclusion this was wishful thinking.

 

I then printed the last photo above in black and white.

 

WW1 tank black and white.png

 

I realise this in no way replicates the colour sensitivity of the photographic film in use during WW1 but it clearly shows how different colours "disappear" in black and white, the brown and green being virtually indistinguishable.

 

So I have my four colours, unless any can convince me otherwise?

 

Incidentally  I can find no evidence for the black dividing line between the colours as seems to be in use on the vehicles above.

 

 

I appreciate this post is a long way from railways in a model railway forum, hopefully some of you will find it interesting and it will explain my, at first glance, strange painting of the airship shed.

To my eye there are four distinct colours in the last of your colour photographs - biege, brown, grey-blue and grey-green.

[nick_bastable]

Ortho film in use in WWI was/is  not red sensitive so browns etc look wrong

 

if you want visual examples http://aviadejavu.ru/Site/Arts/Art6035.htm

 

Nick

Edited February 6, 2018 by nick_bastable

[Argos]

Having not pasted an update for nearly two months and slipped to page 3 I thought it was about I time I did something.

 

My arm is nearly back to normal, just lacks strength so I'm running of excuses.

 

Glencruitten has been asked to the 2mm Society supermeet at Chelford on 19th May so I really do need to get my finger out.

 

I have made some progress recently. the majority of the track has been painted, although some detailing still remains.

 

 

I also attempted to start ballasting.

The initial try being removed.

I thought using fine builder's sand mixed with powder paint to give a grey colour would work well, predictably though, once soaked with wet glue the paint was washed out leaving behind the un-dyed sand which looked like, well, sand.

 

I wasn't happy with this so it was all broken out and vacuumed off.

 

I've now dug out an old bag of Woodland Scenics fine grey ballast so I'm going to give this a try.

 

 

The grey stain that remains can be sen in the above photo.

 

There's quite a bit I want to get done before Chelford, it would be good to get some grass down and trees built.

Then there's the buildings to finish and paint.

And I still need to finish the appropriate motive power.

 

Ah well, I'd best get of this settee!

 

 

 

[Northroader]

And as it’s an airship station, I really, really, want to see an ...

Edited April 2, 2018 by Northroader

[Argos]

I'll bump it up the things to do.....

 

You're not the only one to mention this......

[Edwardian]

I'll bump it up the things to do.....

 

You're not the only one to mention this......

 

I am glad to see this topic restored to page 1.  It's looking good.

 

My unsolicited advice would be that an airship is a defining feature of the layout.  If you have one less loco or string of trucks, no one will much mind or notice (provided that you have some, of course!), but they will miss an airship!

[Argos]

Well, the second attempt at ballasting has fared much better, apart from my powdered wood glue being a bit old and seems to form small white balls.

I'm sure these will disappear with more water and time.

 

 

5p is added to show scale, it's all still damp but already looks the part.

 

Only another 12 feet or so of track to go.....

 

 

[nick_bastable]

playing a little fast and loose with scale these may be interesting http://www.redeagleminiatures.co.uk/balloons.html  winch lorry and I feel sure that I have stumbled over 10mm or  1:144 WW1 ground crew but in a very senior moment do not ask where

 

Nick

[Argos]

Hi Nick,

 

I've seen the Red Eagle stuff, the balloons don't really compare the the airships.

 

The SS class (submarine scout) I am planning to model is an early one with a BE2 aeroplane fuselage strapped below.

 

 

In the early experiments they didn't even bother to remove the wings.....

 

 

I have a Red Eagle BE2 white metal kit ready to butcher into the fuselage, it's a bit crude and I am wondering if a 3D printed BE2 (there are several on the Shapeways site) might be better.

 

There is also some 1/144 German WW1 ground crew on Shapeways.

 

https://www.shapeways.com/product/A9Q5GHX6Z/1-144-german-ground-crew-set001?optionId=65050369&li=marketplace

 

I've still got to investigate how suitable they are to represent British ground crew.

I suspect at this small scale it won't matter too much.

 

For the airship's gas bag I'm going to attempt the shape a kid's tubular swimming float.

The posts above have shamed me into ordering one to give it a go.

The back up plan is to laminate thick balsa strips together and use that to form the shape.

 

Whether a plan C is needed remains to be seen!

[nick_bastable]

plan c lots of crew looking skywards with mooring ropes dangling from the sky      

 

Nick

[Argos]

The float which is to form the body of the airship arrived today and was waiting for me when I returned from work.

 

 

It doesn't look like much yet!

My concern was how easy the foam would be to shape, I was worried that it would crumbled or come apart in lumps.

Initially I cut an appropriate sized length and got work hacking it about.

My concerns were not valid, it cuts well with a saw, albeit it difficult to saw the complex 3D curves accurately this way.

 

The best approach seems to be sanding with coarse sand paper, then finishing with a fine grade.

 

 

 

The above trial was about 20 minutes work.

It's a bit rough but served it's purpose to assess the best method of shaping.

As a proof of concept goes I'm quite happy.

 

All looks good so I'll try again at the week end, this time just using the sandpaper to shape.

Edited April 5, 2018 by Argos

[Argos]

Attempt no 2 and I think it is quite close.

 

A bit of final shaping is still required.

I've also got work out how to lose the "fluffy" look.

 

 

I have tried MEK on an off-cut thinking the MEK would either melt the foam, or it would be a suitable solvent to glue down the fluff.

Rather surprisingly (at least to me) the MEK had no effect at all, obviously not the correct solvent.

 

I'll try a coating of PVA next.

[Northroader]

Just racking me brains, I was thinking of toffee apples, but what would the dip be? No, your idea of building up a”skin” of pva glue, Thin dilute coats? then sand, might have legs.

Edited April 8, 2018 by Northroader

[nick_bastable]

easitrac glue works very well having some sort of solvent base

 

Nick

[Andy Hayter]

You could try artists' Gesso.  They use it to even out the weave on canvas before painting.  I think that today it is a mix of PVA and plaster of Paris.  Once dry it can be sanded.

[Argos]

Hi Andy,

 

How flexible is Gesso?

I might give it a try, I'm just concerned that if I add a brittle surface to a flexible sub-strait it will just crack and fall off.

 

In the meantime I've pasted on some dilute PVA.

This has stuck down some of the fluff and solidify the rest.

I'm hopeful these can now be be removed with sandpaper.

 

Whilst the PVA was drying I turned my attention to the control car.

The earliest SS airship had BE2C aircraft as the control car with the wings and tail removed.

Later adjustments had the wheels removed leaving skids (at some point floats were trialed also).

 

The starting point is  Red Eagle Miniatures White-metal model of a BE2C, I'm mixing scales as the gas envelope has been scaled at 2mm (1:152) and the BE2C is 1:144.

I probably should have thought that one through!

Still, I don't think the difference will be noticeable as there is no real point of reference.

 

The basic kit a bought:-

 

 

Once the superfluous bits are removed we have some thing looking like an SS class control car:-

 

 

After cleaning up the molding and adding the skids and propeller it looks the part:-

 

 

 

Frustratingly one of the skid supports is cast short so I'll have to replace this.

 

I need to figure out additional items as added to the SS control cars.

 

First up an additional 29 gallon fuel tank was attached to the underside of the body (directly under the crew seats, which I'm sure the crew appreciated when subject to incoming fire!).

I can't find a reference to how these were constructed but, being a bulbous curved lump  I believe these are some kind of doped fabric.

They certainly are not a tradition "tank" shape.

I'm contemplating using some model filler to mold this feature.

 

The other addition is a Lewis gun mounted on the RHS (Starboard? it is the RNAS after all....). This will be the side visible so needs to be included.

The problem is I've yet to find a photo of such a gun mounting on a SS type ship.

I suspect I'll need to widen the search to include aircraft.

I have managed to find a detailed drawing of a Lewis gun, which should help make one in 2mm scale.

 

 

[Andy Hayter]

​ I don't think it is overly flexible, but it was the recommended way to create a smooth ships hull over a foam based rough-out in one of the French model magazines.  I have it ear marked for that elusive N Sea Ferry, but have not started the body in earnest yet.

 

They painted on the Gesso with a large brush and sanded down once dry.  There must be a little give, and I would have thought it would key into all of the holes on the foam.  

[Argos]

Hi Andy,

 

I've just found out my wife's got some hidden in her painting equipment  .

 

Once I've sealed the surface with PVA a coat of Gesso might finish the surface nicely.

 

Thanks

[Argos]

Having got the control car body done I've waded through my collection of books and photos to try and sort the detail that needs to be added.
There are little details such as the shape of the exhausts (I don't believe those on the aeroplane would be left unaltered as they exit just in front of the additional fuel tank).
Then there is the bomb rack, the additional fuel tank, bracing to the skids, the lewis gun mounting etc.
 
What I discovered is that the BE2C cars are quite camera shy, there are several photos, all taken from a distance though which makes details difficult to see.
 

 
The above is about the best I can find.
 
It never occurred to me to look for film footage.
I just presumed that the short life of these airships, combined with the war would have prevent such an archive.
 
Then I discovered this gem.
All the questions answered!
 
https://player.bfi.org.uk/free/film/watch-british-airships-in-the-east-1917-online

[Northroader]

Amazing! That film makes it look a useful bit of kit, the speed it goes at and the manoeuvrability.

[nick_bastable]

Having got the control car body done I've waded through my collection of books and photos to try and sort the detail that needs to be added.

There are little details such as the shape of the exhausts (I don't believe those on the aeroplane would be left unaltered as they exit just in front of the additional fuel tank).

Then there is the bomb rack, the additional fuel tank, bracing to the skids, the lewis gun mounting etc.

 

What I discovered is that the BE2C cars are quite camera shy, there are several photos, all taken from a distance though which makes details difficult to see.

 

be2c control car.jpg

 

The above is about the best I can find.

 

It never occurred to me to look for film footage.

I just presumed that the short life of these airships, combined with the war would have prevent such an archive.

 

Then I discovered this gem.

All the questions answered!

 

https://player.bfi.org.uk/free/film/watch-british-airships-in-the-east-1917-online

very interesting have you worked out what the vent from the propeller leading up  is for ?

 

Nick

[Caley Jim]

Love the dog supervising the fitting of the bombs at 1:36!  

 

Jim