Jump to content
 

Recommended Posts

The following message appeared in the 550011989 blog in 1989 although I have only just discovered it.

 

"Are there any former members of the Northern Counties Transport Society out there. My Name is Peter Trotter and I used to be a memberb in the late 1970s and early 1980s. For a brief time I was the membership sectretary before I left to rejoin the Royal Marines. It is now 30 years since i left and I do wonder if there are any of my former society members out there. The memories that I have of this time are still very special to me and I would like to hear from any body out there."

 

Some of you may be old enough to have been avid 'shed bashers' and been a member of one of the pre-dominantly spotting societies that arranged visits in the 1960's and 1970's. The Northern Counties Transport Society (NCTS) being one such Society  based in Cheshire/Lancashire/Yorkshire. Its heyday was the 1970's when it was arranging coach trips and works visits almost fortnightly. It actually came about through an amalgamation of two other 'shed bashing' Societies in c1969, Buckley Wells Railway Enthusiasts (BWRE) and East Cheshire Railway Enthusiasts (ECRE).

I have recently received two very interesting letters from former NCTS members who were active members of BWRS/NCTS from the mid 1960's until 1972. I myself became a NCTS member towards the end of 1974. Between those two eras a lot appears to have changed and it would be very interesting to know if anyone has recollections from the 1972-1975 period in particular to make sense of the changed direction. Recollections from other eras of ECRE/BWRE/NCTS would also be of great interest.

One thing we are all lacking is Society publications from that era especially magazines but also the various duplicating lists that were produced. It would be very interesting to know if anyone still has these or knows or an archive of them. 

 

Other societies doing similar at the time were the Worcester Locomotive Society and Dalescroft.  A falling out in c1973 within the latter spawned the Inter-City Railway Society which still exists today,  Dalescroft itself transformed into the NREA.

 

Little about these societies can be found on the web but no doubt some of their members are today's keen modellers of that era..   
 

  •       
Edited by Peter A Hall
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • 4 months later...

Hi. I was in the BWRE but left before it joined with CRE. Still got a BWRE yearly? publication somewhere. Makes interesting reading with all the proposed shed visits. Close your eyes and you are back there.

 

Still struggling to find former members and especially publications.  Thus, very interesting to hear from a former BWRE member presumably from the late 1960's.  I would be very interested to hear any memories you have from that era or see a scan / photo copy of the BWRE publication.  I am sure it will give an interesting insight into how things then were and I know at least one former member from that time who would also be very interested.   Please PM if you prefer.

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...

Hi. I was in the BWRE but left before it joined with CRE. Still got a BWRE yearly? publication somewhere. Makes interesting reading with all the proposed shed visits. Close your eyes and you are back there.

Had a very interesting chat with a couple of former Northern Counties Transport Society (NCTS) members this week who were both active at the time of the Buckley Wells merger and the creation of NCTS.  Clearly though much confusion about the actual names of the societies that came together.  Both are agreed that it was Buckley Wells Railway Enthusiasts (BWRE) and another but was that other Salford Locomotive Society (SLS) or East Cheshire Railway Enthusiasts (CRE).  Interestingly blue47766 mentions a merger between BWRE and ECRE so it seems probable that merger could pre-date BWRE merging with SLS to form NCTS.  This then raises the question of whether the NCTS name originates from the first or second merger.  If anyone can shed any more light on this please get in touch.

 

Edit August 2017 - Consensus is BWRE merged with ECRE.  If SLS were involved in a merger it pre-dates this.  Possibly SLS existed in parallel but dissolved about the time of the merger with former members joining the NCTS. 

 

Edit September 2017 - The emergence of a collections of BWRE/NCTS magazines confirms BWRE and ECRE merged to become NCTS on 1st October 1969.  Prior to this BWRE had merged with Salford Railfans (note the correct name) on 31st December 1967 with the Salford Railfans name being dispensed with.  

 

Similarly confusion exists about exactly what happened in early 1976 when the South Yorkshire Railway Society (SYRS) was started partly by disillusioned Sheffield area NCTS members.  This clearly only lasted a few months before being absorbed into the Chesterfield based Little Midland Railway Society (LMRS) who appear to have supported its creation in the first place.  Anyone who can shed more light on that is encouraged to make contact.  We have copies of the LMRS magazine 'THE MIDLANDER' issues 2 and 3 from that era but it is clearly number 1 that tells the story.  It was also the first to publish the later Roger Richards famous article '"What is a trainspotter?"  Of course the LMRS is very much a railway modelling society and has been ever since it was formed as such in 1967 but can trace its roots to  the St. Barnabus Model Railway Club formed in the 1950s.  I suspect quite a few LMRS members actually look in on this forum but might not have realised the NCTS connection. 

 

Edit September 2017 -  A copy of the first edition (Autumn 1976) of 'THE MIDLANDER' has now been traced. In this is says "In January 1976 we were approached by several people asking if we could extend our Society to cater for the younger diesel enthusiasts ........ this new venture was started under the temporary name of the South Yorkshire Railway Society  ........... It was recently decided that before the name South Yorkshire Railway Society  was too well established that it should be discontinued and the Society will be know as The Little Midland Society."      

 

Certainly their was a rivalry between NCTS and Dalescroft in the 1970s but it does appear the latter had a number of difficulties.  I suspect though they had quite a number of members because of their national advertising including in Ian Allan spotters books.  Must be a lot of former members who can give an insight.

 

Please keep the memories coming either on here or by PM.   

Edited by Peter A Hall
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • 5 months later...

​I was a member of BWRE from about 1968 and a committee member (Assistant, then Treasurer proper) of NCTS from around 1971/2 until its demise in the early 80's. I probably never met you, because I stopped going on trips around 1976.

 

I have a vague recollection of a Salford club, but I am pretty sure that any merger with BWRE took place prior to BWRE and EastCRE's marriage, which was one of convenience, as BWRE had lots of members but little money, whereas ECRE was the other way around. I cannot recall knowing anything about STRS or LMRS's existence, though I know NCTS had an increasing strong South Yorkshire following, resulting eventually in all trips having a Sheffield pick-up in addition to those West of the Pennines.

 

NCTS was promoted as having both a railway and bus division, though, in reality, nothing much happened, as far as I am aware, regards the latter.

There was indeed a rivalry between NCTS and Dalescroft, run by one Dale Fickes of Bradford. He believed that one national enthusiasts' organisation would be better placed to negotiate shed access with BR than disparate regional ones. All his coach trips stuck rigidly to the rules, whereas NCTS got permits when they could, but thought nothing of visiting these in the middle of the night rather than the stated time, or 'blagging' their way around other depots for which it was unable to obtain permits at all.

 

The demise of the club was brought about by two situations. First, a lack of members willing to serve as committee members resulted in too many functions being performed by one person. These included having charge of almost all of the club's income, a responsibilty for which that person was, sadly, not well equipped. The final straw came when that same person was caught leading a 'bunking' (going around without either permit or verbal permission) of Cardiff Canton, which resulted in a BR-wide ban on the club.

 

They were happy times and I often find myself singing songs we sang long into the night on overnight trips after the obligatory pub stop! Many of the people I knew would have pre-dated your involvement, however, Peter, but please let me know if I can help on any specifics.

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...

My thanks to Graham for his comments around a month ago.  I have delayed making comment until now as I am not sure whether he has received  a PM message  I sent then.  Not sure I have ever met Graham but his name has been mentioned many times by John Wade whose association with NCTS parallels his, probably if I did it was in 1975 or later not in connection with a NCTS outing. 

 

Whilst John is certain of the Salford Locomotive Society merging into BWRE or NCTS others I have spoken with have not mentioned it.  John says it was being run by a chap called Wally Ganby but no one else has so far mentioned him. 

 

Edit September 2017 - Established that Salford Railfans were absorbed by BWRE on 31st December 1967,  ECRE merged with BWRE on 1st October 1969 to form NCTS. 

 

The merger between BWRE and ECRE I am now fairly certain took place very late in 1969 or very early in 1970, thus the NCTS era spans the 1970s.  Although some of the key members from the early days drifted away as personal circumstances changed others such as Graham and John were a part of the Society throughout the decade.  In the early years an annual social event was held as well as the running of shed bashing trips.  I have a photograph of the 1971 social evening and have now identified nine out of the eleven guys present , their were five gals as well.

 

With regard to a bus division I recall that fleet lists for Lancashire United and possibly SELNEC were being sold on the trips in 1975.  The former at least were almost certainly complied by an often mentioned key member from Swinton (GM) who drove buses for Lancashire United as well as sharing the driving on some trips.  The later may have been earlier editions of the A. M. Whitton  Fleetbooks.  Perhaps Mr Whitton was an NCTS member?.

 

I think it is fair to say South Yorkshire was Dalescroft rather than NCTS territory but my memory is that NCTS were considered better value for money and ran better trips as a result of their swash buckling tactics  This being the reason why enthusiasts from South Yorkshire  joined NCTS rather than Dalescroft.

 

I am slowly piecing together from former members recollections a potted history but their are many gaps and I am particularly interested in recollections from the amalgamation era and early 1970s.   Please add a post or make contact if you were a member of the NCTS or one of hits constituents.     

Edited by Peter A Hall
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • 3 months later...

Peter, can you send me that PM again please? I've only today looked at the site for the first time since my March post and seen yours in April. Maybe it went to Junk in which case it'll have auto-deleted long ago. I'll keep an eye out for it now though. It'd be good if you'd kindly attach that social evening pic too. I doubt I'd be on it as I was a bit too young but I may recognise some faces.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Peter, can you send me that PM again please? I've only today looked at the site for the first time since my March post and seen yours in April. Maybe it went to Junk in which case it'll have auto-deleted long ago. I'll keep an eye out for it now though. It'd be good if you'd kindly attach that social evening pic too. I doubt I'd be on it as I was a bit too young but I may recognise some faces.

 

Peter. You can ignore above message. I have found your PM now. It was just me not knowing how the site worked. I'll email you directly when I

have chance to read your attachment. Apologies for the confusion!

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

Technical issues are now resolved and exchanging notes at the moment with Graham. 

 

Unfortunately, Graham has not retained any documentation from his long association with the NCTS.  Thus, so far the only NCTS publications traced are editions of the 'WHERE THE ! * ! * ! ARE THEY', 'Ex B.R. Loco's in Industrial Service' and 'NEW STYLE LOCOMOTIVE STOCK BOOK'.  There were many more and of course the Society Journal.  Any help in sourcing copies would be very much welcomed.  .

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

It is interesting to note that a Google search for 'Northern Counties Transport Society (NCTS) comes up with very few references to the society and many of those that do lead to comments made recently on forums. Thus, perhaps many of the 1970's shed bashers are, some would say wisely, not great internet / social media devotees which is why so little has been posted.  Fortunately, a couple more former members have made contact one of whom, like Graham (see above), was an official for most of the societies existence. 

 

Consensus now is that the society was formed from the merger of Buckley Wells Railway Enthusiasts and East Cheshire Railway Enthusiasts in the winter of 1969/1970.  The former was as Graham says  skint but had many members whilst the later had few members but a healthy bank balance. Few have any recollections of the Salford Locomotive Society (SLS),  Its being involved in a merger though cannot be ruled out especially if it took place at an earlier date with one of the constituent societies.   Quite possibly the SLS folded at about the time NCTS was formed and several former members simply joined the new society.

 

The fallings out that resulted in the formation of the South Yorkshire Railway Society (SYRS) appear to have been more a minor irritation than anything else. It did result in the resignation of a couple of NCTS officials and a drop in the number of members in the South Yorkshire / North Derbyshire area though which did mean that excursions heading west from Manchester no longer had a Sheffield pick up.  I had previously believed a key proponent of the SYRS had been an NCTS official which was not the case.  It does now sound like it had more to do with a couple of personality clashes than anything else.

 

I am slowly compiling a potted history based on the recollections of those who have been in touch, most wishing to remain anonymous, but still a long way from completion.  It will include a few sample excursions where these can be supplied - just typed a 1978 South Wales traditional c24 hour overnighter which visited 32 depots and stabling points!

 

Please keep the reminiscences of NCTS and other similar societies coming in.   

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • 4 weeks later...
  • 10 months later...

For those who remember the Counties.I was the membership Secretary for about six months in 1981 before I left to rejoin the Royal Marines.I started out on what was called the Junior or Sub committee with late Martin Stewart( Headbanger) and Mark Greenwood Nickname Proff from Todmorden.I then Took the membership role from John Wade.I used to sit at the back of the coach with my big Radio Cassette playing music from the 60s and 70s and used to help John out in selling the Counties Publications at Works Open Days.


I never much gave any thought about the Counties until about Six Years ago and made contact with Peter Hall and John Wade.I lived in the Town of New Mills in Derbyshire Martin Stewart ( Headbanger) lived close to me.


I specifically remember the Grand Scottish of 1981 when we were supposed to set of at 3.30 instead of 6.30 but the coach got held up by a procession through the middle of Manchester so we did not set of until ironically 6.30.I vividly rememberer Martin Stewart wore a pair of ripped Jeans that he always seemed to wear. Nicholas Clarke nickname Cag ripped them to shreds and when Martin found them he tried to strangle Cag who was trying to eat a piece of toast at the time.I had to buy Martin anew pair of jeans.


These were some of the happiest days of my life and would love to hear from fellow Counties members from that time.


I fully understand that social media is not a tool that my generation 55 years plus might enjoy utilising but I would welcome any response from anyone even anonymously. If anyone wants to contact me privately then they can by way of Private Message.

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...

In the two and a half years or so since this Topic has been on going I have actually made a lot of progress with this project.  This though would not have been possible without the help of others, some of whom have posted in this topic.  This help has been very much appreciated.

 

Dave Felton who founded BWRE has actually written quite a comprehensive history of that Society  including details of the amalgamation that created the NCTS in 1970.  I myself have now been able to compile similar for the NCTS although a few grey areas still exist where clarifications and additional information is still sought.  Lists exist of trips run by both BWRE and NCTS and for the later some lists of locations visited and locomotives seen now exist electronically but we would like to have a few more.

  

The majority of BWRE and NCTS magazines have been scanned but a few editions have so far eluded us.  Similarly the majority of booklets produced from 1972 onwards have been scanned but again not all have been traced. Earlier publications under the Viva Transport Publications and BWRE names are proving much harder to locate. 

   

If you were a NCTS member and have not already made contact, please do so as you just might have recollections or something squirrelled away that would help enhance what has already been achieved.  

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...

I was a member of Buckley Wells in the mid 60's. Used to travel over from Leeds with some friends to go on the coach trips. The memory plays tricks but the coaches I went on all seemed to start from Manchester Victoria late on Saturday evening around closing time. Most of the sheds were visited on the Sunday but opportunity was taken to bunk round anything en route. Thus I can recall a trip just before a Christmas to East Anglia that called in at Tinsley at some unearthly hour and one to Scotland that made an unadvertised visit to Gateshead. I don't have any publications.

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...

I was a member of BWRE between about 1964 and 1970 and went on quite a few shed and works visits - although not as many as I'd have liked to.  I particularly remember the trip to Cornwall, Devon and South Wales shortly after the end of steam.

 

I'd very much like have a copy of Dave Felton's history of BWRE, as I'm sure this would make interesting reading.

 

Graham Barton

Edited by Graham Barton
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • 2 years later...
  • 2 months later...

Sad news I'm afraid for those who were members of Buckley Well Railway Enthusiasts, Northern Counties Transport Society and Bahamas Locomotive Society in the 1960's and early 1970's.

After a long illness Dave Felton passed away on Monday at the care home where he had latterly resided. If it hadn't been for Dave the Buckley Wells Railway Enthusiasts would never have existed. His recollections of the Society can be read at https://www.northerncountiestransportsociety.com/bwre

As well as his railway interests Dave was very much a part of the bus scene in and around Manchester / Lancashire both as an enthusiast and in the 1970's proffesionally.

  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...
  • RMweb Premium

A little late finding this thread, I joined the NCTS in 1978 , was Dave from Barnoldswick ? working for Rolls Royce if I remember correctly, the other main lad was John Wade , happy days ,when we joined the coach off the M66 at Bury the first thought was “is this coach going to complete the journey “ which for the 1979 Grand Scottish tour it didn’t.

Lots of memories of creeping round places like Hoo Junction in the middle of the night , and the daftest was crossing the four tracks trying to bunk Gateshead from the rear of the depot.

 My brother George sadly passed away years ago but Raymond Smith is still going strong, the three of us were usually together.

I will now read the links to the NCTS 

image.jpg

image.jpg

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Premium

Having a quick look on the link I found a photo of my late brother with his best mate Raymond stood in front of the cab of 05001 , with John Wade in front of them.

And an answer to my own question, it’s Allan Fawcett leader of the scouts that I remember, from Barnoldswick .

Link to post
Share on other sites

On 18/06/2021 at 12:28, D.Platt said:

A little late finding this thread, I joined the NCTS in 1978 , was Dave from Barnoldswick ? working for Rolls Royce if I remember correctly, the other main lad was John Wade , happy days ,when we joined the coach off the M66 at Bury the first thought was “is this coach going to complete the journey “ which for the 1979 Grand Scottish tour it didn’t.

Lots of memories of creeping round places like Hoo Junction in the middle of the night , and the daftest was crossing the four tracks trying to bunk Gateshead from the rear of the depot.

 My brother George sadly passed away years ago but Raymond Smith is still going strong, the three of us were usually together.

I will now read the links to the NCTS

Dave Felton as far as I'm aware lived in and around Bury in BWRE ane early NCTS days.    Latterly I understand he livede in or around Darwen.  As Dennis remembers, it was indeed Allan from Barnoldswick along with John who were the main lads on coach excursions when he was a member.

 

Dennis, could you email me at the Archivist email address on the NCTS website.  I would very much like to include some of your comments, memories etc on the website and also swap notes.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...