DRS Class 88 - electro-diesel

[GWRPhil]

8 hours ago, martin_l_jones said:

Here's a double headed northbound Tesco through Holytown with 88010 & 88001 (4S43) Daventry DRS (Tesco) to Mossend

 

A lucky capture...

 

 

 

This may sound a silly question but is there anyreason why when under the wires as photo'd neither loco are taking power?

 

I heard very close to the terminus they switch into diesel mode for the  terminus itself. is the photo taken near the terminus?

[St. Simon]

2 hours ago, GWRPhil said:

 

This may sound a silly question but is there anyreason why when under the wires as photo'd neither loco are taking power?

 

I heard very close to the terminus they switch into diesel mode for the  terminus itself. is the photo taken near the terminus?

 

Hi,

 

It might be in this case that the length of time they are under the wires (and can draw power from it) might not be worth the time it takes to stop, raise the pantograph at the start and then stop and lower the pantograph at the end.

 

Simon 

[martin_l_jones]

1 minute ago, St. Simon said:

 

Hi,

 

It might be in this case that the length of time they are under the wires (and can draw power from it) might not be worth the time it takes to stop, raise the pantograph at the start and then stop and lower the pantograph at the end.

 

Simon 

 

I honestly don't know why, I had a quick look on flickr and quite a few shots of 88's have the panto's down !!!

 

I do know on this working 88010 was attached to the front at Carlisle so it may have run all the way up the WCML like this.

 

And the Mossend Terminal is very close to where this was taken.

 

 

[Zomboid]

Though Mossend is comprehensively wired, so there should be no need for diesel running in there.

[ColinK]

The opposite also applies.  I’ve often seen them on the Sellafield - Heysham flask trains with electric power being used for the very short section between Carnforth and Hest Bank, the rest of the run has to be on diesel power.

[martin_l_jones]

The DB 90's running into Mossend will have to run off the panto, they have no option, so it's a strange one...

[GWRPhil]

Could it be something maybe to do with the loco needing to run it’s Diesel engine a certain amount per week/month. 

[phil-b259]

Diesel fuel is generally cheaper for FOCs to purchase than electric power from Network Rail (a monopoly supplier) as there are lots of fuel supply companies out there in composition with each other plus if you have clever people who play the markets they can do all sorts of wheller dealing and hedge / buy in advance to lower the cost even more.

 

At least one FOC in the past has made it pretty clear that from an economic / profit perspective they would gladly dump their electric locos if they could - its only the lack of diesel paths (electrics have faster acceleration and can maintain speeds up steep gradients) on the likes of the WCML which meant they held off from doing so.

 

So although the class 88s might well be Bi-modes, unless the FOCs contract specifies a specific flow must use electric traction (the Tesco train between Daventry and Scotland being one such example), in these difficult economic times it may well be that diesel mode is preferred where it can be accommodated - and with train services having been reduced due to Covid then more diesel paths might well exist than usuall at the moment.

 

I suppose another explanation could be that the leading loco had a problem with the Electric side but was OK on diesel so they used that rather than phaf around getting a new loco or swapping them over to use electric mode.

Edited July 12, 2020 by phil-b259

[Steadfast]

Looking at videos of 88s on the last leg of the journey passing Holytown, there's a mix of diesel and electric in use, so no apparent rhyme or reason from an external perspective.

 

Jo

[Zomboid]

The the thing with 88s is that there's a "diesel path" and a "path that a 950hp loco can keep time in". I suspect that on anything more than the nuclear trains, an 88 on diesel wouldn't be allowed anywhere near Beattock & Shap without assistance.

 

Though in that particular picture there are two of them, so a mighty 1900hp might be available.

[DY444]

Iirc there is a steep-ish climb from Carstairs to Carluke but then the line falls to Law Jn and after a short rise falls again from Wishaw to the Mossend junctions.  There's a neutral section on the Wishaw road right after Law Jn. 

 

Even with two locomotives the climb from Carstairs would be laboured on diesel with that load so my guess is that some drivers probably change over when they've crested the summit at Carluke and got the flashing double yellows for Law Jn.  With a clear road they are going to be coasting from Carluke to the Mossend junctions anyway apart from the short rise from Law Jn towards Wishaw.  Getting on diesel early also takes the neutral section out of the equation so my guess is that some drivers prefer that whilst others prefer to change over later.  By contrast if they get checked at Law Jn then getting going again and clear of the main line would be quicker on electric, the OHNS notwithstanding.

 

As has been mentioned,  when working the Heysham flasks 88s have been using almost every foot of ole available (literally) on the short run between Hest Bank and Carnforth so I don't think there is a general reluctance to use electric mode where it is available.

Edited August 11, 2020 by DY444

[vulcan product fan]

Mossend yard  to Daventry container train headed by DRS Class 88 number 88008 at Nuneaton .

Edited August 10, 2020 by vulcan product fan

[Siggie in the east]

A rare visitor to the GE today. 88001 as 0Z88 to Norwich Crown Point, on the down goods at Colchester.

Overheated slightly at one point I think as the pan went down and the roof fans kicked in.

 

Thanks

[russ p]

1 hour ago, Siggie in the east said:

A rare visitor to the GE today. 88001 as 0Z88 to Norwich Crown Point, on the down goods at Colchester.

Overheated slightly at one point I think as the pan went down and the roof fans kicked in.

 

Thanks

 

I didn't notice you taking this picture! 

That noise was the diesel starting up im training a driver on it this week

[Siggie in the east]

Afternoon! Was nice to speak to you on the gsm-r, sorry for putting you away, if I'd known sooner that you were doing a ton I'd have told my learner to give you greens

Ah right, the racket those fans were making i thought you were going to overheat outside the window.

Cheers

[russ p]

3 hours ago, Siggie in the east said:

Afternoon! Was nice to speak to you on the gsm-r, sorry for putting you away, if I'd known sooner that you were doing a ton I'd have told my learner to give you greens

Ah right, the racket those fans were making i thought you were going to overheat outside the window.

Cheers

 

Cheers,  I'm on it again later in the week if you signal it again 

Those things are so fast light engine and stop really fast too in the dry can stop from 100mph in less than a quarter of a mile 

Was it the fans making the noise or when I started the diesel engine, its a small V12 and although quiet it doesn't sound too bad

We still got back early as we didn't have to stop at Ipswich 

[Siggie in the east]

9 hours ago, russ p said:

 

Cheers,  I'm on it again later in the week if you signal it again 

 

We still got back early as we didn't have to stop at Ipswich 

Im back in again Saturday so will keep an eye out.

 

Thats because I mentioned that you were 100mph to the Ipswich and Norwich signallers an they kept you moving as you would pretty much outrun anything around you! 

 

Any reason why we have an 88 running around here? Is it for a new flow or something?

Edited March 24, 2021 by Siggie in the east

[russ p]

1 hour ago, Siggie in the east said:

Im back in again Saturday so will keep an eye out.

 

Thats because I mentioned that you were 100mph to the Ipswich and Norwich signallers an they kept you moving as you would pretty much outrun anything around you! 

 

Any reason why we have an 88 running around here? Is it for a new flow or something?

 

Thanks for the run much appreciated you passing on the 100mph running, incidentally 68s are the same light engine 

No new traffic unfortunately its for crew training as they are used on the Dagenham car trains nowadays 

[Rob Coote]

From 2019 Severn Valley Railways Diesel Gala, 88006 Juno leads a service away from Kidderminster 

 

 

[Jack374]

This Easter weekend there have been a few diverted intermodals running through the East Midlands, from DB and DRS. With the DB ones being standard sheds, I went out for both the daylight DRS workings. Both had 88005 followed by 68018 at the business end, working in multi. Reportedly the 88 was 'on the juice' where possible; good to see it’s dual-mode capability is being used even on these diversions. Below are embedded Flickr and YouTube links, click for more info.

 

Yesterday I saw the northbound run at Chellaston (Derbyshire):

 

Today I saw the pair head back south through Castle Donington (Leicestershire):

 

Good to see an 88 in the East Mids; they're still very rare through here with only a handful of 88-hauled trains having ever passed through.

 

Thanks,

Jack.

[russ p]

I relieved yesterday's train at toton and took it to York then in the evening brought another back from Newcastle to York

When the  88 is in electric mode with the 68 its 9000hp! Absolutely flies 

[hmrspaul]

My Class 88 photos https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/class88/eae76ce4f

One often hangs around in the Parcels siding at York station - the webcam shows there is one there as I type. So I'm able to get detail photos. 

Last weekend the WCML container trains were being diverted through here and I caught a couple, double heading with 88 + 68, They really move! It was unfortunate that the Mossend to Daventry service was delayed by 110 minutes or so in Scotland - as was everything - as I hoped it would stand in York for about 20 minutes. As it was there are several long stops south of there in the timetable - Tyne Yard, outside York and York station, so it actually went straight through York and was within a minute or two to time. 

 

Paul

[TomScrut]

On 22/04/2016 at 12:17, Allegheny1600 said:

Horsepower doesn't neccessarily equate to tractive effort, it is what is required to get the load up to speed.

 

Broadly speaking, i.e. without going into specifics about the loco I don't know about:

 

Work done (Energy) = Force X Distance

 

Divide both sides of the equation by time and you get Power = Force X Velocity.

 

Force can be substituted for torque if needs be (the velocity then becomes angular velocity)

 

So yes, torque/force is needed to make something move at a low speed, power is needed to make it have the same pulling force at a high speed.

 

In reality, tractive effort as a function of speed will vary, including the properties of the motor, the engine and the electrical system, but it will most likely be that tractive effort rolls off as the power limit (of whatever system it is running on) is reached.

 

I think in the case of most locos, tractive effort tends to be dictated by the mass on the driven axles, at low speeds the motors don't tend to struggle causing wheelslip as far as I am aware.

[TomScrut]

On 23/03/2021 at 20:34, russ p said:

Those things are so fast light engine and stop really fast too in the dry can stop from 100mph in less than a quarter of a mile 

 

So they are allowed to do 100 light? Didn't know that. Does this apply to the 68 too?

[russ p]

2 hours ago, TomScrut said:

 

So they are allowed to do 100 light? Didn't know that. Does this apply to the 68 too?

 

Yes ,both 68 and 88 can run at 100mph light engine