Maidstone East

[retbsignalman]

Hi,

 

Before it was resignalled in the early 90s, there was a berthing siding beside the down line on the London side of the Medway bridge at Maidstone East. Does anyone know how long the siding was please?

 

Ta in advance!

 

G

[Del]

A quick rough and ready measurement from this map:

https://www.old-maps.co.uk/#/Map/575617/155910/12/100659

gives a length of about 125m.

 

If you have a screen with decent resolution (or better eyesight than me), you might be able to make it out here:

http://www.s-r-s.org.uk/html/sre/R1629.htm

[retbsignalman]

Hi Del,

 

Thank you, most useful!

 

Cheers G

[Del]

You're welcome. Been hunting for my Quail track diagram book, to see if there's an accurate measurement in there, but it appears to be in a box somewhere.

[retbsignalman]

Hi!

 

Thank you again for the assistance on the siding - long enough to hold a 4 car unit would fit, as the down bay platform was only long enough for a 4 car!  

 

Just one other query on Maidstone East, does anyone know when the A229 Fairmeadow dual carriageway was built under the railway alongside the Medway please?

 

Thank you!

 

Graeme

Edited April 29, 2016 by retbsignalman

[Del]

It was around 1991-2. The Warehouse nightclub was almost under the bridge and closed in 1991, to make way for the road, so it can't have been long after that.

[Littlethorpe]

By coincidence I've just walked along the Medway adjacent to Fairmeadow to buy a ticket for Maidstone United's promotion play-off match.

 

We moved to Maidstone in 2004 and Fairmeadow was certainly in existence then. It doesn't appear on the 1990 Ordnance Survey Map so Del's earlier post is almost certainly correct.

 

The bridge still has the Railtrack notice attached but it  doesn't show a date.

[The Lurker]

By coincidence I've just walked along the Medway adjacent to Fairmeadow to buy a ticket for Maidstone United's promotion play-off match.

 

We moved to Maidstone in 2004 and Fairmeadow was certainly in existence then. It doesn't appear on the 1990 Ordnance Survey Map so Del's earlier post is almost certainly correct.

 

The bridge still has the Railtrack notice attached but it  doesn't show a date.

OT nice to see Maidstone United on the rise again. I grew up in Paddock Wood and the Stones were the nearest we had to decent footie!

[retbsignalman]

Thank you all again! Wish I'd paid more attention (and taken more pics!) when I lived a nadge more local than I currently do (Inverness)!

 

G

[Oldddudders]

Not sure if it is of interest, but the area had had a resignalling scheme less than a decade earlier. A mini panel with new VDU diagram driven from some sort of re-programmable disk comes to mind. New tech at the time.

 

The 1990s scheme must have been for Channel Tunnel trains, I think.

[Lyddrail]

Hi!

 

Thank you again for the assistance on the siding - long enough to hold a 4 car unit would fit, as the down bay platform was only long enough for a 4 car!  

 

Just one other query on Maidstone East, does anyone know when the A229 Fairmeadow dual carriageway was built under the railway alongside the Medway please?

 

Thank you!

 

Graeme

 

Graeme,

The down bay was at least 8 cars long as my photos show, although I think it was a siding by this date (reinstated to a platform in the 1990s). Pics show a 4Vep & 2 x 2Haps.

 

The London end siding with a 4EPB berthed.

 

Cheers.

[retbsignalman]

Thank you again Ian and Paul,

 

The station layout was indeed remodelled and resignalled as of 23rd August 1992 (just found the Signalling Instruction...No5-1992 ....) 

 

The Down Bay which was behind the Red Star building (with a VEP in Pauls first picture) was realigned and lengthened to follow the Dock Siding (where the HAPs and VEP are stabled) creating an 8 car bay. The works were part of the preparations for the Channel Tunnel opening.

 

Great pictures - a distinct lack of cars in the car park (it was crammed when I was there last month!). Most useful as I didn't realise the Dock Siding was used for stabling units!

 

Cheers G

[Lyddrail]

Thank you again Ian and Paul,

 

The station layout was indeed remodelled and resignalled as of 23rd August 1992 (just found the Signalling Instruction...No5-1992 ....) 

 

The Down Bay which was behind the Red Star building (with a VEP in Pauls first picture) was realigned and lengthened to follow the Dock Siding (where the HAPs and VEP are stabled) creating an 8 car bay. The works were part of the preparations for the Channel Tunnel opening.

 

Great pictures - a distinct lack of cars in the car park (it was crammed when I was there last month!). Most useful as I didn't realise the Dock Siding was used for stabling units!

 

Cheers G

 

Graeme,

It would have been a weekend, likely a Sunday when I took the photos.

Cheers.

[retbsignalman]

Good morning!

According to the 1962 resignalling notice,  there was a double slip at the London end of the station on the down line to access the bay and yard. However while researching I found this fine image on Flickr which shows a facing point only to the bay from the down  line. 

Can anyone throw any light on whether this was a temporary measure or if it was permanent,  when was it made and where was the crossover for trains from the bay/yard to access the Up line please?

Thank you in advance!

Graeme 

 

[woodenhead]

There are more crossings the other side of the bridge behind the unit, the facing point in front of the unit has also been removed since.

 

When was the siding seen at the back of the image with the HAP/EPB stabled removed?

[retbsignalman]

The place was resignalled in 1992 and the centre road altered to trail to the down line at the Week Street/tunnel and booking office end and trail to the up line at the London end with crossovers either side to allow the proposed long Chunnel freights to be looped and all platforms to be accessible from the London end. 

The short siding was removed at the same time as the resignalling 

 

Graeme 

[The Lurker]

I tried the Kentrail site but it does not have any maps of Maidstone East. It does have much fascinating history and the photograph posted by Retbsignalman (with a copyright attribution).

 

This might give you some dates as candidates for the change but nothing blindingly obvious. Fascinating to me was that the LMS had goods facilities there until 1934.

 

[phil-b259]

Right, first thing to say is that the layout was NOT resignalled in the traditional sense for channel tunnels trains. Yes it was remodelled around 1992 for channel tunnel traffic but the 1960s vintage L frame (the last working one in the country after the recent resignalling of Liverpool Lime Street) was retained and still controls movements to this day.

 

https://www.wbsframe.mste.co.uk/public/Maidstone_East.html

 

Secondly, the new bridge and dual carriageway up to junction 6 were built at the same time as the original two lane M20 Maidstone by-pass was radically rebuilt with widened main carriageways new junction layouts and collector - distributor roads between junctions 5 & 6 during 1992 to 1994 in preparation for the heavy channel tunnel traffic

[retbsignalman]

Thank you both The Lurker ad phil-b259,

 

Indeed, it certainly wasn't resignalled in the traditional sense but as you say remodelled in connection with the Channel Tunnel traffic in mind. I was given permission to visit, photograph and measure up the box about four years ago. Its not as simple a design as it looks! Internally it pretty much has something for everyone interested in signalling with the L frame and an NX panel all in a very compact space. 

 

The yard was very large going by the plans on KentRail and in its heyday a very bustling place.

 

My primary interest is in its appearance through the late 70s and 80s prior to the new bridge and dual carriageway being built, but again I've struck a block with next to no pictures of the eastern riverbank, especially to the northern side. My research trip was very thorough, but I'm not that struck on a walloping great dual carriageway in the middle of things unfortunately! So, if anyone has a pre-1990 picture, or two I'd be enormously grateful. Again, thanks in advance!

 

Graeme

 

 

 

 

[Artless Bodger]

On 05/01/2021 at 09:42, retbsignalman said:

Good morning!

According to the 1962 resignalling notice,  there was a double slip at the London end of the station on the down line to access the bay and yard. However while researching I found this fine image on Flickr which shows a facing point only to the bay from the down  line. 

Can anyone throw any light on whether this was a temporary measure or if it was permanent,  when was it made and where was the crossover for trains from the bay/yard to access the Up line please?

Thank you in advance!

Graeme 

 

There was a double slip in the down line leading into the down bay / dock and sidings - a bit of prototype for everything. Speed was low here as the down trains had reached the foot of the bank down from Barming and rounded an almost 90 degree lefthand curve, before the S bend though the station and Week Street tunnels immediately onto the up grade to Bearsted, a nightmare for boat trains. The middle road was reversible, and in the autumn a BRCW type 3 was sometimes stabled in the centre road in case trains needed to be banked, especially up to Bearsted (the gradient was 1 in 88 I think, mainly tree lined). The slip allowed direct departure onto the up line from the yard and was partly located on the 'high-level' bridge over the river. We used to go to the coast from ME in the mid '60s onwards and I don't particularly recall a long down bay (1929 aerial view shows just a short dock behind the old signal box). I helped a school friend photograph the goods yard for a project he was doing for the Kent Archaeological Society (early '70s), it was largely disused then though the goods shed was still standing and the old Midland railway coal yard, complete with short iron rails (I recall reversible bullhead) and wagon turntables, as shown on the maps on the NLS website (perhaps the photos are available from the KAS or in Archaeologia Cantiana?). Before the up platform was lengthened to 8 cars (late 60s?) we sometimes caught an electric unit from the up bay and the building backing onto the footpath past Brenchley Gardens and over the high-level was still in existence (I recall it as a water tower but my memory is vague). The long down dock siding was for military traffic from the adjacent engineers' barracks though this had been a cavalry depot school before (Nolan of the charge of the light brigade was instructor there). The down layby siding west of the bridge as noted above would hold a 4 car unit. I used to meet my wife off a down train in the early 80s, the previous down was from Holborn Viaduct and split in the down platform, a 4EPB went to the layby overnight, I cannot remember if the rest went to the down bay / dock or continued to Ashford. Our morning train from Bearsted would be 4 cars (CEP or VEP) and at ME coupled to the 4EPB which had moved into the up platform - there was usually a scramble of people leaving the rear 4 to go forward to get seats nearest the barrier for arrival in London! Trains stabled overnight in the down dock siding, though fenced off from the carpark (as the goods yard had become, with the Royal Mail parcels depot where the coal yard had been, now under the road I think) were used by the local glue sniffers as the doors were not locked. Whereas down trains terminating at ME in recent years ran into the new down bay (platform 3), earlier they terminated int he down platform, reversed over the slip / crossover and shunted back into the up platform. At one time I recall 3 trains an hour from London, 1 terminating, the others going forward to Ashford, one semifast which then continued to Margate (after a lengthy wait at Ashford to connect with the Folkestone and Dover service from Charing Cross). OT but returning from the coast at times we had to change at Ashford and in platform 1 there would be 3 x 2 car units each for a different destination; a HAP for Charing Cross via Tonbridge, another HAP for Victoria via Maidstone and at the country end a 2H for Hastings - woe betide the unwary passenger who got on the wrong one. If you can find it there was a good oblique aerial view taken in the green - blue transition period looking north which was emblazoned on the whole of one wall of a building society in Maidstone, perhaps a Kent Messenger photo as their offices and press was just cross the road from the ticket office.

[retbsignalman]

Thank you! 

That's really helpful! There is a wealth of information that will help me with the project! 

I'll have a looksee at the KM website too

Graeme 

[Artless Bodger]

Found this photo https://thetransportlibrary.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=86597&search=Maidstone+East of a down boat train in 1951, shows the down bay with what I think is a post war tin HAL in it. The fence on the down platform edge is interesting and the starting signal would suggest direct departure of passenger trains in the up direction from the bay was possible via the double slip. There is another photo on the same site (select Maidstone East) which shows the down end of the down platform before the access ramp from the ticket office was removed to accommodate the sand drag when the track plan was altered for a reversible centre road ('62 resignalling?) - at the time of the photo the centre road was still a down loop siding. So, usefully I've learned more about ME from this thread as I have no recollection of the down bay in use. My earliest railway memory is of a steam engine in the down platform seen through the railings at the foot of the up side access ramp, I was about 4 at the time.

 

Later memories are of single 2HAPs on the London services, combining with a 2HAP from Gillingham at Swanley, dividing in the down direction, cue more anxiety if we were in the right portion, opening the drop light to listen carefully when they said which portion went where, as on occasion it wasn't the same as said at Victoria.

[Southern Steve]

I have a few 35mm pics taken along the side of the Medway in this area from the late 80's.

I'll have a look for them as they may be of interest.

[SED Freightman]

This sketch map showing the track and signalling arrangements (circa 1980 ?) might be of interest.