Isle of Wight freight

[JZ]

Finding photo's of freight trains on the Isle of Wight seem to be a rare thing, especially in BR days. Of the ones I can find in the books I have, there is a noticeable lack of vans. There is possibly one in a photo of Ventnor, but this may be a brake. And the only other van I can see is a PMV(?) at Newport. Of what I can see most, if not all, seems to be coal traffic in 5 and 7 plank wagons. Would I be right in assuming that other goods would go by road to save transhipment, with small parcels handled by the passenger brake vans?

[Nearholmer]

I'm no expert, but I do know that the main traffic inward was coal, carried in both five and seven plank wagons. There was also a 10T van, which was attached to passenger trains! And must have been fully-fitted, for carrying fish. I have a feeling that the latter is preserved (the van, not the fish) at IoWSR. It was, like some other vans on the island, an ex-LBSCR vehicle.

 

Kevin

[t8hants]

Here is the link to IWSR wagon page, that might help

 

http://www.iwsteamrailway.co.uk/wagons-and-departmental-stock.aspx

[Nearholmer]

An old Pamlin Prints photo in my collection, dated 1953, shows a goods train headed by an E1, consisting of:

 

- two cattle wagons;

- a horse box;

- a further cattle wagon;

- about ten opens, mixed 5 and 7 plank, loaded with what looks like coal;

- brake van.

 

K

[JZ]

- a horse box;

K

Ah, yes, I did see one somewhere.

[JZ]

Thanks for the replies, all useful stuff. At the planning stage at the moment, but I am doing something loosely based on Ventnor, but sufficiently different to warrant another location, maybe Bonchurch or Niton Undercliff.

[russ p]

Were vans and the like built to separate diagrams from mainland stock on account of the tighter loading gauge?

[Nearholmer]

Jules

 

I didn't really "get properly into" the railways of IoW until two years ago, when we went on holiday there, and explored a bit more than I had before. There are stacks of books on the topic, but the ones I chose are two volumes by Ian Drummond, called "Southern Rails on the Isle of Wight", which provide a really thorough introduction. Highly recommended.

 

I do have dim memories of a paddle-steamer trip from Portsmouth to Ryde, when I was a small boy, and of steam trains on the pier, but, oddly enough, I remember the trip back towards London better, for the simple reason that a motor caught fire under the guard's van of one of the EMUs, and everyone from a busy twelve-car was then squashed into a four-car. I sat on my grandmother's lap, with my two brothers sitting on top of me, all three of us wearing "cowboy" hats. Odd the details that persist!

 

Kevin

[Fat Controller]

Were vans and the like built to separate diagrams from mainland stock on account of the tighter loading gauge?

The stock that was transferred was standard mainline stock, though most was distictly superannuated; the exception was the small batch of SR Passenger Luggage Vans transferred to the Isle in 1950. These were almost a half-century younger than anything else there.

[IWCR]

The  Isle  of  Wight  trains  carried  all  freight  until  the  mid  30's,  Coal  came  in  at  Medina  Wharf,  general  goods  at  St  Helens.

In  the  mid  30's  general  goods  were  switched  to  the  Pickfords  wharf  at Cowes  (then  a  railway  owned  company)  for  onward  delivery  by  road.  From  this  time  much  of  the  van  stock  was  out  of  use.  There  was  little  remaining  general  goods  originating  on  the  island.  Coal  traffic steadily  declined  over  the  years  but remained  until  the end  of  steam.

Coal  was  carried  in  LBSC  open  wagons  (around 475  of  them),  post  war  some  being  replaced  by  SR  8  plank  wagons

Chalk  was  worked  from  Shide  to  the  Cement  Mills,  this  was  in  Private  Owner  wagons  marked  Vectis  Cement  (Later  part  of Blue  Circle)  This  ceased  during  WW2

Sugar  Beet  was  also  carried  from  the  Sandown  Newport  line  when  in  season,  coal  wagons  being  used for  this.

Mail  and  newspapers  continued  by  rail  from  Ryde  Pier  head  until  the  end  of  steam,  this  was  conveyed  by  passenger  train  with  an  attached   Full  brake  or  PMV  if  required.

Perishables  (Fish,  fruit  etc)  arrived  via  Ryde  Pier  head,  also  conveyed  by  passenger  train  with  a  fitted  van  if  required.

Most  of  the  wagon  stock  was  of  LBSC  origin,  this  was  standardised  by  the  Southern  as  a  good  opportunity  to  usefully  employ  a  quantity  of  non  RCH  vehicles  out  of  the  way.  

The  1953  photo  of  the  train  including  3  cattle  wagons  and  the  horse  box  is  unusual  but  well  known,  these  vehicles  (the  last  remaining  IOW  livestock  wagons)  had   been  recovered  from  the  just  closed  Yarmouth  station  where  they  had  been  kept  for  years  and  are  on  their  way to  St  Helens  for  scrapping,  the  Horse  Box  is  an  LBSC  vehicle  of  Stroudley  design,    it  became  the  only one  to  receive   SR  lined  green  livery  and  eventually  made  it  into  BR  Crimson.

 

Pete

[Pacific231G]

Just to add a bit to Pete's very interesting notes, as luck would have it I very recently got hold of a bound volume of the 1963 MRC that includes a major five part series of articles  "Modelling the Railways of the Isle of Wight" by G.M Kichenside and Alan Williams (though Alan Williams is the only named author after the first part) . It ran in March, April, May, July and September. The first article includes a complete track plan of the Island's railways complete with signals as it was in the early 1960s with just the Ventnor and Cowes lines in service.

 

The final article focusses on Freight Vehicles.

This confirms what Pete has written about the SR replacing the rolling stock from the original railways with vehicles from its main constituent companies. For goods stock*  these seem to have all been ex LBSCR apart from the goods brake vans that were all ex LSWR. The article mentions that only three cattle wagons remained by the mid 1950s (but there never seem to have been very many on the island) and that they were finally broken up in 1956.

 

By the mid 1930s most open wagons were around 450 ex LBSCR standard 10ton five plank types but in 1948 88 13 ton eight plank SR standard opens were also transferred to the Island and 79 of these more modern wagons were still in service in 1962. Since freight was already declining these presumably replaced some of the LBSCR  wagons and only a third of these, 150 wagons were still in service in 1962.

 

At the birth of BR there seem to have been three types of van on the Island, all ex LBSCR, one with wooden underframes, one with steel underframes and the third type rebuilt from standard  LBSCR cattle wagons with an 11ft2in wheelbase, wooden underframes and 18ft 4ins long .

 

The article also mentions some odds and ends mostly in departmental use including two tank wagons for weedkiller that had been rebuilt from Isle of Wight Central water tanks use to take fresh water from Newport to Medina Wharf for the steam cranes there, an unusual traffic.

 

I've always had an affection for the IofW's railways having visited them I think three times towards the end of steam and also as a small chld on a family holiday in Ryde. I did like this comment in the first article "Last months editorial commented on models of rural branch lines given train services that would put Clapham Junction to shame.Anyone modelling the Isle of Wight need have no fear of providing an overlavish service; the difficulty wil be to keep pace with the timetable" That does accord with my first childhood memory arriving at Ryde on the paddle ferry from Portsmouth and being very impressed by the busyness of the station with trains in every platorm, a scene that was more reminicscent of somewhere like Fenchurch Street than a bucolic British branch line.  I also remembered feeling vaguely disappointed that we used the tramway to get to Esplanade rather than one of the steam trains- I wouldn't feel that way now!!  

*more to follow on passenger stock

Edited April 10, 2016 by Pacific231G

[Nearholmer]

Pete and David

 

Very interesting/comprehensive.

 

From the book I mentioned:

 

The SR bought over six LBSCR cattle vans, of which three were soon converted to ordinary vans, by planking the upper part, and fitting different doors.

 

They would would make an interesting and simple conversion from Triang/Hornby SR cattle wagons, which can be found "dead cheap" - worthwhile because the external timbering looked very "different".

 

Kevin

[Pacific231G]

Just to add to my previous post something about passenger stock from the July 1963 MRC.

 

After it took over the Island's Railways at the grouping the S.R. first of all brought in "new" four wheel passenger coaches mainly from the LBSCR and London, Chatham and Dover (some of these converted from LC&D six wheel stock) "cascaded" from suburban lines that had been electrified along with a few LSWR bogie coaches but from 1934-1939 the four wheelers were gradually replaced by ex. LBSCR bogie stock apart from on the Newport-Freshwater line. There ex. LBSC four wheelers continued in service until after the war when a considerable number of ex SECR bogie coaches arrived.

I hadn't realised that push-pull sets were used on the Island but there were two from the SECR (one single one two coach set) brought over in 1938 that worked the Merstone-Ventnor West line until it closed in September 1952 and then the Brading-Bembridge branch until it too closed the following September. 

The article does say that "Few if any of the coaches on the Island remain in the condition in which they first ran...many have been virtually rebuilt often with steel sheeting over the panelling and no two coaches..are identical"

The one piece of rolling stock I never saw and hadn't even heard of before reading the MRC articles was the "Midget". This was probably still around when a school railway society trip to the Island in I think 1965  included a visit to the sheds in Ryde St. John. The Midget was a hand operated 0-4-0 shunting loco with which two men cranking a large wheel could move about 20 tons in low gear- someone must have modelled it. 

 

The thing I do remember from my teenage trips to visit the Island's Railways was how,  right up to the end of steam and the simultaneous closure of most of the Island's remaining railways,  the locos in particular were cleaner and kept in far better condition than their mainland couterparts. If any group of British ralwaymen deserved to keep their railway, despite Beeching it was those on the Isle of Wight. They also seemed to avoid the loss of morale so apparent elsewhere on  BR* and even just a few months before the end, when my father and I travelled on the whole system in a day, there was no hint of anything amiss. There were plenty of jokey IofW postcards about people getting off the train to pick flowers but, though the stock was old, my abiding memory is of a smartly worked railway run by a friendly and dedicated group of railwaymen.

 

I didn't by the way see any sign of goods traffic during those visits in the 1960s and, though coal for locos obviously got to St. John somehow, simply assumed that the IofW had been basically a passenger only railway for quite some time. Does anyone know how frequent the coal trains from Medina Wharf to various yards around the Island were in the last few years?

Edited April 10, 2016 by Pacific231G

[t8hants]

As my parents ran a small B&B in the 50's & 60's the main interest for us was 'luggage in advance', for our regular guests.

This if memory serves me correctly would turn up on a Friday  having been collected by BRS van from the town station, (Sandown).

As boys we didn't like 'luggage in advance' as this robbed us of the chance to make pocket-money by carting luggage on old pram wheels with flat beds for those passengers who arrived at the station, but didn't want to pay for a taxi.

I am fairly sure timber was still being carried by the railway into the early 60's, but I took no notice of the wagon it came on.

[bike2steam]

I didn't by the way see any sign of goods traffic during those visits in the 1960s and, though coal for locos obviously got to St. John somehow, simply assumed that the IofW had been basically a passenger only railway for quite some time. Does anyone know how frequent the coal trains from Medina Wharf to various yards around the Island were in the last few years?

Given that was the main reason for the existence of the E1's on the Island, and they ended about 1960-ish, it would seem to 'tie-in'.

[IWCR]

The  last  LBSC  4  wheeler  was withdrawn  in  1931,  followed  by  one  in  departmental  use  in  1932.

It  was  a  few  LCDR  4  wheelers  in  the  Freshwater  line  mail  set  which  survived  postwar  (until  1949),  these actually  received  Malachite  Green.

LCDR  bogie  carriages  were  introduced  prior  to  the  LBSC  bogies,  it  was  these  which  were  then  replaced  by  SECR  stock  post  war.

Push  pull  sets:  Two  SECR  ones  did arrive   in  1925  but  went  back  in  1927.

Two  LCDR  4  wheel  sets  arrived  in  1924  and  ran  until  1938,  these  were  then  replaced   by  LBSC  bogie  vehicles.

"Midget"  was  out  of  use  soon  after  its creator  (A  B  MaCleod)  left  the  island,  I  believe  it  ended  up  supporting  part  of  Ryde  St  Johns  Coal  stage.

In  later  years  coal  trains  ran  from  the  wharf  to  Newport  around  twice  a  day.

Coal  was  then  sent  out  along  all  lines  by  means  of  an  early  morning  goods,  towards  the  end  of  steam  this  could  be  down  to  as  little  as  2  or  three  wagons.

 

Pete

[bécasse]

The only time that the Bembridge branch was worked pull-and-push was in 1936 while the engine-release turntable was being renewed and enlarged, the ex-LCDR 3-set was used. Vehicles from the former Ventnor West branch pull-and-push bogie set did appear on the Bembridge branch after the closure of the Ventnor West line but were always run round.

 

Oddly, the branch freight was propelled, and apparently often without a brake van, from St.Helens to Bembridge in the early morning, the loco then taking up the passenger service with the carriages which had been stabled in the platform overnight. The process was reversed after the final passenger working of the evening, the loco leaving the carriages in the platform and then working the empty coal wagons (and possibly PLA vans) to Sandown, picking up the brake van and any wagons as required from St.Helens wharf en route. There were occasions when the brake van worked through to Bembridge, where it was stabled in the general goods siding, possibly either when there were PLA vans for Bembridge or when there were no wagons to be dropped off at St.Helens wharf, but the working was still propelled as the stabled carriages blocked the run round.

[bike2steam]

The only time that the Bembridge branch was worked pull-and-push was in 1936 while the engine-release turntable was being renewed and enlarged, the ex-LCDR 3-set was used. Vehicles from the former Ventnor West branch pull-and-push bogie set did appear on the Bembridge branch after the closure of the Ventnor West line but were always run round.

 

Oddly, the branch freight was propelled, and apparently often without a brake van, from St.Helens to Bembridge in the early morning, the loco then taking up the passenger service with the carriages which had been stabled in the platform overnight. The process was reversed after the final passenger working of the evening, the loco leaving the carriages in the platform and then working the empty coal wagons (and possibly PLA vans) to Sandown, picking up the brake van and any wagons as required from St.Helens wharf en route. There were occasions when the brake van worked through to Bembridge, where it was stabled in the general goods siding, possibly either when there were PLA vans for Bembridge or when there were no wagons to be dropped off at St.Helens wharf, but the working was still propelled as the stabled carriages blocked the run round.

The small 4 wheeled coaches that formed sets 483 & 484 were also used on the Bembridge branch during the turntable improvement, those coaches were converted former SECR six-wheelers, usually hauled by a 'Terrier'.

On the freight side, there was a small gas works on St Helens wharf which required coal wagons. Before grouping, and for a while afterwards, ballast for the islands railways was the shingle dredged out of St. Helens wharf, and Bembridge Bay, loaded into open wagons in the sidings beside St Helens wharf.

[phil_sutters]

You can only see parts of wagons in the attached photos - but I thought you might like to see them. Dad's IoW photos are among his best, in my opinion

[Ian Morgan]

As has been said, coal was the mainstay of goods traffic in the later years.

 

Small amounts of goods were carried in the ex-LSWR Road Vans (brake vans with side doors). There was also a small collection of single bolster wagons used for carrying rail.

 

Going back to earlier times, some cattle wagons were fabricated from open wagons with a corrugated iron roof added. These would make interesting models.

[Pacific231G]

You can only see parts of wagons in the attached photos - but I thought you might like to see them. Dad's IoW photos are among his best, in my opinion

Thanks for posting these Phil; they are not only excellent photos but also very informative. I said that I wan't aware of any goods trafffic during visits to the Island in the last years of steam, probably in 1965 and 1966, but as the photo was from 1963 may well have seen coal wagons at Cowes but simply not noticed them. Coal merchants at stations were still a commonplace sight and perhaps the same would have been true for Ventnor that I also visited a couple of times. 

Edited April 21, 2016 by Pacific231G

[phil_sutters]

Thanks for posting these Phil; they are not only excellent photos but also very informative. I said that I wan't aware of any goods trafffic during visits to the Island in the last years of steam, probably in 1965 and 1966, but as the photo was from 1963 may well have seen coal wagons at Cowes but simply not noticed them. Coal merchants at stations were still a commonplace sight and perhaps the same would have been true for Ventnor that I also visited a couple of times. 

Pleased to be of service! There are another seven photos of the IoW railways from this trip and one by Alan Newman in Ryde shed. If anyone would like to see them I can upload them here, or, if there is a more appropriate thread, please direct me there.

[Pacific231G]

Pleased to be of service! There are another seven photos of the IoW railways from this trip and one by Alan Newman in Ryde shed. If anyone would like to see them I can upload them here, or, if there is a more appropriate thread, please direct me there.

Yes please Phil, here would be just fine.

[bécasse]

Visiting Ventnor station in October 1965, I was very surprised to see a goods arrive, shunt the yard, and depart again. Travelling back to Ryde on the next passenger train, I was even more surprised to find the goods tucked away on the siding at Wroxall, where it had deposited a wagon and was now waiting to continue towards Ryde once the single line was clear. I have often wondered whether that was the final occasion that a wagon was dropped off at Wroxall, the line closing 6 months later.

[phil_sutters]

Here you are!