Marc Models SR Ferry Brake van

[macgeordie]

I was asked to build one of these as a commission, I've already built 5 of the CIWL Ferry sleeper coaches and there are a couple of the French Fourgon wagons to build to complete the train when I get time.

 

 

I made a start a few days ago and got the main parts of the sides put together, one of the window grills was missing from the kit, hence the space in one of the openings. I've contacted the supplier and a replacement is apparently on its way.

 

 

The roof comes pre-formed (after a fashion) but I had to tweak it quite a bit to get the shape correct. I used the little frames which support the small birdcage roof as a guide to get the shape right. The roof for the birdcage itself was also the wrong profile but when I tried to bend it, it was just too stiff, so I had to anneal the brass first then I was able to shape it using the usual pad of kitchen towel and a piece of brass tube about 15mm in diameter. I can't fit the roof yet as I have to get the grill fitted first, it is pretty inaccessible once the roof is on.

 

 

The solebars supplied in the kit were just plastruct extrusion and they were too short anyway so I made two new ones out of L shaped brass profile.

 

 

I decided to fit the door hinges next, they were a pain, they are really small, it must have taken me over an hour to fit them all.

 

 

 

There were no proper instructions with this kit. The kit was apparently originally commissioned by Model Rail magazine about ten years ago and the article in the magazine is more or less all you get as a set of instructions and it isn't easy to follow as steps of the sequence seem to be glossed over.

 

I've got all the ribbing to fit on the wagon ends and sides next and they are all half etched overlays which look like they are going to be a bit awkward to fit. 

 

I'll post a few more photos as I get further with the build.

 

Ian

 

[Fat Controller]

Nice. When they stopped using them on the Night Ferry, they went into general use. I saw S3S, painted Rail Blue, at Swansea High Street in 1971 or '72.

[PhilJ W]

Nice. When they stopped using them on the Night Ferry, they went into general use. I saw S3S, painted Rail Blue, at Swansea High Street in 1971 or '72.

They were painted in Wagon-Lits blue originally, but with Southern 'sunshine' lettering.

[Fat Controller]

They were painted in Wagon-Lits blue originally, but with Southern 'sunshine' lettering.

THis was definitely ex-works Rail Blue, complete with markings in Rail Alphabet script.

[Enterprisingwestern]

THis was definitely ex-works Rail Blue, complete with markings in Rail Alphabet script.

Yet according to some "authorative"  sources none were painted rail blue.

 

Mike.

[macgeordie]

Yet according to some "authorative"  sources none were painted rail blue.

 

Mike.

Hi Mike, are you at S4North tomorrow, I have your kit.

 

Ian

[Fat Controller]

Yet according to some "authorative"  sources none were painted rail blue.

 

Mike.

It was definitely in Rail Blue, and unusual enough for myself, and the Rev Lewis, to note it. It apparently went for scrap in 1974, according to 'Southern Railway Passenger Vans (David Gould)

[PhilJ W]

It was definitely in Rail Blue, and unusual enough for myself, and the Rev Lewis, to note it. It apparently went for scrap in 1974, according to 'Southern Railway Passenger Vans (David Gould)

When they ceased ferry service they were painted in Southern Region green according to reports. They were certainly painted Wagon-Lits blue until they ceased being used for ferry services with only a change of lettering upon nationalisation. Its possible that what you saw was actually faded Wagon-Lits blue.

[macgeordie]

I managed to get a bit done on the chassis today, then the grandkids landed, Job stopped !!!!!

 

I fitted the MJT W frames as supplied in the kit and the brake shoes. Although there are shoes in the kit, there is no method of mounting them provided, so I made a simple frame from 0.45mm wire. It's not brilliant but it works.

 

 

 

I'm off to S4North tomorrow, so I don't expect to get much done on this project. I was demonstrating there last year but I think they noticed I was an OO Luddite so didn't get invited back this year !!!

 

Ian

 

 

[Fat Controller]

When they ceased ferry service they were painted in Southern Region green according to reports. They were certainly painted Wagon-Lits blue until they ceased being used for ferry services with only a change of lettering upon nationalisation. Its possible that what you saw was actually faded Wagon-Lits blue.

Nope- it was (unusually clean) BR Blue with, as I mentioned, Rail Alphabet lettering; at the time I was modelling quite a lot of parcels stock (scratchbuilt Siphon G and Gresley BG, for a start), and so was always watching out for potential projects.

[macgeordie]

A bit more progress, I have most of the underfloor details done on the chassis now. There is no provision in the kit for brake gear so I put some together with parts from the 'Bits Box'. The castings are included but nothing else other than the brake shaft bracket, it's probably not prototypicaly correct, but it looks the part

 

 

There is a very thin overlay which goes on the end of the wagon just below the roof line.

I got the missing window grill yesterday, so I was able to fit the roof and this thin overlay, which was a bit of a pain to install.

 

 

The footsteps for the double doors are provided in the kit as a piece of 'T' section plastruct which didn't impress me much so I made some steps from scrap fret. I tried to fit them with my RSU but it just wasn't having it, so I ended up having to solder them with the iron. They are in place, but they look a bit messy. Once the paint is applied though, you won't be able to see the solder so it should be fine. I also got the birdcage roof fitted using the RSU, it just needs a little filler along the join. I filed a taper onto the edge of the metal but even so it isn't a perfect blend, therefore, filler is the only solution.

 

 

I need to fit the framework to the ends and sides next. I was going to do it last week, but chickened out.

 

Ian

[macgeordie]

I've now fitted the ribbing on the wagon sides (still got to fit it on the ends) but it is very fragile. It extends over the solebar but for some reason there is a cut-out at either end of the rib which weakens it significantly. I'm not sure what to do about this at this stage but I think I might try letting a bit of 0.3mm wire into the slot to strengthen it. 

 

 

This is the little cut-out I mentioned above. None of the other ribs in the kit fit in this space so this must be the correct one. I just don't know why it is there.

 

 

I have added the filler along the roof joint, so that is ready to start sanding down. I used the Humbrol filler for this, I usually use Squadron putty but the last few tubes I have bought were quite hard and it was difficult to get the filler out of the tube so I ended up throwing most of it away. The Humbrol one is very fluid and easy to apply, the only thing I found I had to do was to mix it using a cocktail stick when it was still in the tube as the solvent seems to separate from the filler when in the tube and unless you mix it up again, you just get a great blob of solvent coming out before any filler does which is wasteful. Has anybody else had this problem?

 

Ian

[macgeordie]

I managed to finish the wagon off today. The framing on the ends was time taking and difficult to fit but isn't quite as fragile as the framing on the sides of the wagon. I fitted the buffers and vac pipe as well as the axle boxes and springs. 

 

 

 

I'm going to get a friend of mine from the club to paint these as he is far better at it than I am, I don't like doing the painting, I'm much happier building the things.

 

Just got the two Fourgon wagons to do now and that will be the train completed.

 

Ian

[macgeordie]

I decided to make a start on the two Fourgon wagons, one is the SNCF Mail van and the other is the SNCF Brake van. 

 

I thought these would be much easier to make than the SR Ferry van but things don't seem to fit all that well.

 

I prepared the sides and the large sliding doors which fit onto them but found the holes for handles etc didn't line up and you have to fit the door the other way over to get two of the holes to line up and the window opening to be in the correct place.

 

 

I fitted all the grills to the windows and the doors to the brake van. The grills are half etched on both sides, but the holes don't go right through. I opened one out with a 0.3mm drill and they do line up on both sides but aren't etched through. The components are made in 15 thou (0.4mm) brass but I think the artwork must have been done for 12 thou (0.3mm) so the holes are too small to etch through.

 

 

I thought I would fit the representations of the door sliding mechanism next but when I came to fit it to the door I found it was too wide to match the door and also the half etched runner was just sitting in mid air. I also thought the position didn't look correct as shown in the Model Rail article so after looking at a drawing and a photo I found on the internet of a similar door I decided to add a strip of scrap fret along the bottom of the door area for the overlay to sit on.

 

 

 

 

All the runners etc are now in place, I just need to add the top roller pieces now and this bit will be finished.

 

Ian

 

 

[macgeordie]

I managed to get quite a bit done today, the handrails are all made and fitted (a slow job as there are about 30 all together). There are some additional holes in the body sides which look like they should be for handrails, but can't be, because if there was a handrail in the position of the holes you would not be able to open the sliding doors as they would be in the way. 

 

I also got the bodies assembled. There is a strengthening piece which I have soldered to the sides of the wagons rather than the floor as stated in the magazine article. It needs a cut out on the brake van, but just goes straight in on the mail van. The roof profile was a perfect fit (makes a nice change) so was very easy to solder into place.

 

 

 

I need to add the roof joint strips and the wagon end ribbing. The magazine article says to use electricians tape for the roof joint strips, but when I have used this in the past, it has come adrift after a while. I think I will solder some thin nickel silver strip on instead. The end ribs are supposed to be plastruct T section, but there isn't enough in the kits to do it all. I will probably use 2.5 x 1.5 brass T section instead but I have checked the bits box and I don't have enough, so I'll have to see if I can buy some somewhere. The trouble is there is no model shop near me any more which sells brass profile material and ordering one piece 'on line' is prohibitive due to the postal costs.

 

I think I will prepare the parts for the chassis this evening whilst savoring a 'Wee Dram' !!

 

Ian

[macgeordie]

I ended up having to get the brass profile for the wagon end ribbing 'on-line' for these wagons as there isn't a model shop anywhere nearby that sells it. It ended up costing a tenner for two lengths, but it would have cost far more than that to get to the nearest model shop in fuel costs.

 

 

The ribbing is now fitted and looks much better than the plastruct profile supplied with the kit.

 

I also got the chassis pretty well finished for both wagons, the solebars are 'white metal' and I hate working with that stuff except for small detail items such as axleboxes and buffers.

 

The brake shoes supplied in the kit are very coarse and would be better suited to a big steam locomotive than a little van like this. I had quite a few spare brake shoes left over from the etches I had made to produce the bogies for the Wagon Lits CIWL sleeper coaches, so I substituted those instead. It took a lot longer to do but it looks much better in my opinion. There was no method of fitting the shoes suggested in the Model Rail magazine instructions, so I used the same method of a simple frame which I had used for the SR Ferry brake van.

 

 

This is the two chassis units, the brake van differs from the Mail van mainly by virtue of the steps up to the guards van doors and the dynamo. I also added brake rodding and some brass strip to represent the dynamo belt as well.

 

 

I found some nice thin brass strip (about 5 thou) 2mm wide in my bits box so I will try to get the roof joint strips fitted to these two wagons in the morning and also the rain gutters which are needed on the SR van as I forgot to fit them earlier. I'll probably just use 0.5mm brass wire for these as once they are soldered in place with the RSU the profile is not really visible.

 

Ian

[chris25]

Hello Ian,

 

Good work on improving the Ferry van and Mail van kits, have you any photographs of the Night Ferry Sleeper coaches you've built?

As I'm trying to get more details of the underframes or perhaps a drawing? As I've a full set to build for my father's layout.

 

Regards

 

Chris

[Nearholmer]

Very nice indeed!

 

Are the etchings available in 7mm/ft, does anyone know?

 

BTW, I agree with the poster above: at least one was in rail blue. I saw it at, IIRC, Clapham Junction, in the middle carriage sidings. Most vans at the time were so filthy that it was nigh-on impossible to tell what colour they were supposed to be, but this one was definitely blue.

 

Kevin

[macgeordie]

Hello Ian,

 

Good work on improving the Ferry van and Mail van kits, have you any photographs of the Night Ferry Sleeper coaches you've built?

As I'm trying to get more details of the underframes or perhaps a drawing? As I've a full set to build for my father's layout.

 

Regards

 

Chris

Hi Chris

 

I do have some photos of the CIWL coach builds, I can post a few next week, I am away for a few days from tomorrow and would need to sort out which ones top post then reduce the file sizes to less than 1MB.

 

I have now built five of the coaches and I wrote some notes as I was going along with the first one to make sure I got them all the same. I told Mike of Marcs models about them and he asked for a copy so I have re-written them as proper instructions and added a drawing at the end showing the underfloor details and the roof details. I will attach a copy to this post so you can use them if you wish.

 

The bogie frames which came with the kit weren't Ideal as they didn't line up with the cosmetic castings for the side frames and also there was no provision for an NEM coupling if you wanted one or any provision for brake gear so I drew up a new one and had some etched.

 

This is a photo of the bogies I made.

 

 

 

and this is the etch.

 

 

I also added a small etch which was for the corridor connection brackets, but I got the dimension wrong and they are too long so need to be cut down in length if they are to be used.

 

I hope this helps

 

Ian

 

CIWL Ferry Sleeper Instructions.pdf

[Lord Nelson]

Hello Ian,

Good work on improving the Ferry van and Mail van kits, have you any photographs of the Night Ferry Sleeper coaches you've built?

As I'm trying to get more details of the underframes or perhaps a drawing? As I've a full set to build for my father's layout.

Regards

Chris

Hi Chris,

 

I see you have found this thread too.

 

I've now accessed my Marc Models NF stock and have taken a few photos. I've included a shot of the underside of the CIWL sleeping car. It's representative of the 1930s layout.

 

I've also added some photos of my SR van and a fourgon.

 

Good luck with your build!

 

Roy

[chris25]

Hello Ian,

 

The etch is great and the lack of brake gear in the kit does let the bogies down.

I wish I'd know about it earlier as I have just made an order to Michael Clark for his bogie brake etches!

 

Thank you too very much Roy for posting the photos of you set, they look superb and do clear up several items for me.

 

Kind Regards to you both

 

Chris White

[macgeordie]

I got the roof strips fitted to the Fourgons today and the rain gutters to the SR Guards van. 

 

 

Roy, I see you have fitted rain gutters to the Fourgons as well as the SR van. I've not been able to find a photo showing the gutters fitted to the Fourgons and the line drawing I have doesn't show them either even though, logically, they should be there. Have you been lucky enough to find a photo showing them?

 

 

Just a few small details to fit now and the rake will be ready for the paint shop.

 

Chris

 

Here are a couple of photos of the CIWL Sleeper coaches I took whilst doing the build.

 

 

 

I didn't take any useful photos of the underside of the chassis but the drawing in the pdf shows the positions of the key items for the post 1960 version I was building.

 

Ian

 

 

[Lord Nelson]

I got the roof strips fitted to the Fourgons today and the rain gutters to the SR Guards van. 

 

_MG_2206b.jpg

 

Roy, I see you have fitted rain gutters to the Fourgons as well as the SR van. I've not been able to find a photo showing the gutters fitted to the Fourgons and the line drawing I have doesn't show them either even though, logically, they should be there. Have you been lucky enough to find a photo showing them?

 

SNCF Ferry Guards Van_b.jpg

 

Just a few small details to fit now and the rake will be ready for the paint shop.

 

Chris

 

Here are a couple of photos of the CIWL Sleeper coaches I took whilst doing the build.

 

_MG_1686b.jpg

 

_MG_1651b.jpg

 

I didn't take any useful photos of the underside of the chassis but the drawing in the pdf shows the positions of the key items for the post 1960 version I was building.

 

Ian

Hi Ian,

 

There's a photo here http://www.semgonline.com/misc/named_09.html showing a fourgon with rainstrips.

 

Your etched corridor connection support brackets are very nice. They would have saved me a lot of effort making them from wire!

 

Something else missing from the coach kit is the outer 'skirting' which goes between the lashing eyes. I used some brass angle. You can see it in the prototype photos.

 

I found pictures of the LS Models HO night ferry sleepers very useful to check details. - particularly the underside. There's a helpful French website which also has some good prototype photos.

 

http://forum.e-train.fr/viewtopic.php?f=65&t=28566&start=660

 

Roy

[Lord Nelson]

Here are some photos of the LS Models NF sleeper including roof and underframe detail:-

 

http://forum.e-train.fr/album_mod/upload/grandes/6954df0c4709a89156120ab575251e57.jpg

 

Roy

[macgeordie]

Here are some photos of the LS Models NF sleeper including roof and underframe detail:-

 

http://forum.e-train.fr/album_mod/upload/grandes/6954df0c4709a89156120ab575251e57.jpg

 

Roy

Hi Roy

 

Thanks for the links to the other photos, they are really useful, I only wish I had had them at the start of the project. I have looked at a lot of photos and for some reason I never spotted the skirting between the 'lash down' lugs. I have built six coaches so far for my customer, and the cost of adding the skirting now will be prohibitive as there is quite a lot of work involved to do it.

 

As I mentioned to Chris a few posts up the page I will sort out some more images of the ones I have built and post them. I am very impressed with your models, they look the 'Muts Nuts'

 

The photo of the model on the link associated with this post is very impressive indeed. It doesn't look like a Marcs models kit unless it has been substantially improved.

 

Ian