Crun Posted June 16, 2021 Share Posted June 16, 2021 (edited) Wednesday 16th June At last! Views of completely dismantled temporary Lincoln Road bridge: Edited June 16, 2021 by Crun 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crun Posted June 16, 2021 Share Posted June 16, 2021 (edited) Views from Hurn Road bridge I noticed two new upright, white boxes in the sandy middle: Shifting sand A Class 67 from the Royal train? Moving the rusty metal 'box': Edited June 16, 2021 by Crun 8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted June 16, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 16, 2021 2 hours ago, Crun said: Wednesday 16th June At last! Views of completely dismantled temporary Lincoln Road bridge: Now they can put the Meccano set back in it's box! 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crun Posted June 16, 2021 Share Posted June 16, 2021 Film by Trackside ECML of trains on the ECML: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
40F S & T Posted June 16, 2021 Share Posted June 16, 2021 Hi Can anyone tell me why the front of Hull Trains are not painted yellow? This must be a safety issue. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium iands Posted June 16, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 16, 2021 19 minutes ago, 40F S & T said: Hi Can anyone tell me why the front of Hull Trains are not painted yellow? This must be a safety issue. Due to the intensity of the headlights, yellow panels not now deemed necessary. I'm sure someone will confirm actual dates and/or documentation confirming when the yellow panels were no longer required. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium phil-b259 Posted June 16, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 16, 2021 (edited) 45 minutes ago, 40F S & T said: Hi Can anyone tell me why the front of Hull Trains are not painted yellow? This must be a safety issue. The rules were changed a couple of years ago to reflect EU standards for interoperability which mandate a triangular arrangement of lights set a specific distance apart and of a certain luminance as being sufficient warning of an approaching train and held that the 'yellow front' rule was an unreasonable requirement to force on others / 'barrier to entry' by open access operators from other EU states (rather neglecting the fact that the UKs restrictive loading gauge and single rail link via the Channel tunnels are far more significant barriers than a blob of yellow paint. All new build stock like the IETs meats this requirement so in theory none of the IET fleets need yellow ends Very much a downgrade as far as I am concerned! In daylight a large slab of contrasting colour draws the eye far quicker than pinpricks of light. Its interesting to note that GWR and LNER have retained a yellow nose on their IET sets even though there is no obligation to do so while Grater Anglia's Flirt fleet had the initial proposed livery changed to include one - its suggested the high level of public foot crossings forced them to backtrack. *Note contrasting colour doesn't have to be yellow but it should stand out from the other areas of the front of the train. LUL trains with red fronts tend to stand out well as does the orange used by London Overground on their latest Bombardier units (which have a compliant headlight arrangement). Similarly the latest London Midland units with orange cabs but the big black gangway door in the middle seem fine to me. Edited June 16, 2021 by phil-b259 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donington Road Posted June 16, 2021 Share Posted June 16, 2021 19 minutes ago, phil-b259 said: The rules were changed a couple of years ago to reflect EU standards for interoperability which mandate a triangular arrangement of lights set a specific distance apart and of a certain luminance as being sufficient warning of an approaching train and held that the 'yellow front' rule was an unreasonable requirement to force on others / 'barrier to entry' by open access operators from other EU states (rather neglecting the fact that the UKs restrictive loading gauge and single rail link via the Channel tunnels are far more significant barriers than a blob of yellow paint. EU meddling again. The front warning panel is far more effective from long distances than LED lights, especially when the train is coming at angle and is not head on. I have noticed that the odd front light on some stock has failed too. 19 minutes ago, phil-b259 said: All new build stock like the IETs meats this requirement so in theory none of the IET fleets need yellow ends Very much a downgrade as far as I am concerned! In daylight a large slab of contrasting colour draws the eye far quicker than pinpricks of light. Its interesting to note that GWR and LNER have retained a yellow nose on their IET sets even though there is no obligation to do so while Grater Anglia's Flirt fleet had the initial proposed livery changed to include one - its suggested the high level of public foot crossings forced them to backtrack. Hats of to GWR and LNER for a taking a responsible approach to safety. 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted June 16, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 16, 2021 12 minutes ago, Donington Road said: EU meddling again. The front warning panel is far more effective from long distances than LED lights, especially when the train is coming at angle and is not head on. I have noticed that the odd front light on some stock has failed too. Debatable Personally, I can pick out small pin pricks of light before I can see any contrasting colour. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donington Road Posted June 16, 2021 Share Posted June 16, 2021 2 2 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted June 16, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 16, 2021 And? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium phil-b259 Posted June 16, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 16, 2021 6 minutes ago, melmerby said: Debatable Personally, I can pick out small pin pricks of light before I can see any contrasting colour. Then why not have both! Yellow (or contrasting coloured) paint costs very little to add. Far too much focus on style (what graphic designers / marketing people want) than substance or listening to what people at the sharp end think 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium phil-b259 Posted June 16, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 16, 2021 1 minute ago, melmerby said: And? What do you notice first? the pinprick of light or the chunk of yellow. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donington Road Posted June 16, 2021 Share Posted June 16, 2021 1 minute ago, melmerby said: And? Is the yellow not more visible than the high intensity LED's. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
40F S & T Posted June 16, 2021 Share Posted June 16, 2021 Hi I thank you all for the information. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted June 17, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 17, 2021 A still photo of a moving object is not a good way of displaying something. If it's the contrasting colour that is important why are NR trains all yellow? If it's such a good thing to have some yellow on the front, why isn't it universal? Also if it was EU meddling, what's to stop the UK just adding yellow to the front of all trains as a standard spec anyway? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PenrithBeacon Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 10 hours ago, Donington Road said: Is the yellow not more visible than the high intensity LED's. Don't think so and my experience of observing TfL Metropolitan Line trains is that the combination of the dark red front and high intensity lights is better than 'BR's' combination of yellow front and high intensity lights in daylight low visibility conditions. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium corneliuslundie Posted June 17, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 17, 2021 And a genuine question, not nit picking. For the front end of trains we have yellow. For hi-vis outfits we have orange. Why one and not the other in each case? Jonathan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium phil-b259 Posted June 17, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 17, 2021 (edited) 14 minutes ago, PenrithBeacon said: Don't think so and my experience of observing TfL Metropolitan Line trains is that the combination of the dark red front and high intensity lights is better than 'BR's' combination of yellow front and high intensity lights in daylight low visibility conditions. (1) The Red used by TfL is not 'Dark' and in any case its well known that red has a tendency to lighten with age rather than darker over time. (2) There is a lot of Tinted glass on the front of a train along with grey backing to the headlight / tailight area. The net result is a set of contrasting colours of a rather odd shape which will assist in drawing the eye (I always found the inverted 'T' shape formed by the yellow areas on 377s much more eye catching than the straight yellow square on 165/166s). The problem with dark colours like GWR Green or TPE Black is they merge with the tinted windscreens and become practically inviable. Add a dash of a lighter colour - Red, Orange, White, Lime Green, Yellow (particularly if there are things like end doors which can create an unusual pattern) and the front becomes way more visible. Oh and people on here should note that the daily control logs are still regularly list cases of drivers forgetting to switch over from red tail lights to headlights - so rather than having this wonderful triangle of white light you get a dark train with two red lights on the front of it coming towards you! Strangely I have never heard of a driver forgetting to paint the front of their train yellow before setting off! Edited June 17, 2021 by phil-b259 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium phil-b259 Posted June 17, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 17, 2021 10 minutes ago, corneliuslundie said: And a genuine question, not nit picking. For the front end of trains we have yellow. For hi-vis outfits we have orange. Why one and not the other in each case? Jonathan Yellow panels (mid 1960s) came about long before Orange High vis became the norm working trackside (1980s) so I imagine thats got something to do with it. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PenrithBeacon Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 Yellow panels were introduced September/October 1961 and the earliest reference I know of of hi-vis clothing is archive cine footage of the Rosegrove breakdown gang in June(?) 1968 on one of the BR videos . There is footage of the Rosegrove track maintenance gang in May 1968 on the same dvd and they are not using hi-viz. This probably pins the dates. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
62613 Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 13 hours ago, Donington Road said: EU meddling again. The front warning panel is far more effective from long distances than LED lights, especially when the train is coming at angle and is not head on. I have noticed that the odd front light on some stock has failed too. Hats of to GWR and LNER for a taking a responsible approach to safety. Wasn't the UK still part of the EU when the rule change came forward for discussion. Did the UK have no part in the decision? 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PenrithBeacon Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 2 hours ago, phil-b259 said: .. The Red used by TfL is not 'Dark' and in any case its well known that red has a tendency to lighten with age rather than darker over time. ... In low light conditions red will always go darker and so the contrast between the lights and the train will be greater. In the same or similar conditions the yellow ends tend to diffuse the lights so giving a much less contrast. TfL and its predecessor are very careful not to let the red age by constant maintenance. They are better at this than BR ever was. I think dark train ends and bright headlights are a better combination. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crun Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 (edited) Thursday 16th June Views from Lincoln Road bridge: Edited June 17, 2021 by Crun Duplicate images 12 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ess1uk Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 15 hours ago, 40F S & T said: Hi Can anyone tell me why the front of Hull Trains are not painted yellow? This must be a safety issue. There are several threads about this. let’s not clog this one up 3 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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