Sharp Stewert GCR Tank loco

[ChrisN]

As far as I know, and as always I am willing to be corrected, the Cambrian only had one 0-6-0T which was used as a banker on Talerddig so I would not be interested in that one.

 

The 0-6-0 which Peter K once produced I understand had multiple variations but I would need two, eventually, in 1895 guise.

 

It is just possible someone may be working on a 2-4-0 but I do not have any certain knowledge of that.  Again I would, eventually, need two.

 

I assume the 0-4-2 is out of the question?  If I can get a small 0-4-2, or 2-4-0 chassis I may bodge one together.  (Scratchbuild would be too high a thing to call it.)

 

Quarryscapes, of this parish has produced a 2-4-0T Seaham tank as a 3D print.

 

These would all be for 4mm.  I also assume these would be in brass and not 3D prints or resin?

[Edwardian]

Quarryscapes has produced  at least 2 versions of the 2-4-0T; the original (minus original sheet cab, unsuitable for the medium), and the Cambrian rebuild.  When the house sells I'm having 2 of the former, with MT chassis.  

[ChrisN]

Quarryscapes has produced  at least 2 versions of the 2-4-0T; the original (minus original sheet cab, unsuitable for the medium), and the Cambrian rebuild.  When the house sells I'm having 2 of the former, with MT chassis.  

 

Edwardian,

Mainly Trains were running their business down last time I heard, but looking at their site now it still seems to be functioning.

[Edwardian]

Edwardian,

Mainly Trains were running their business down last time I heard, but looking at their site now it still seems to be functioning.

 

Thanks Chris.  It's a question of (non-existent) finances at the moment.  I can pick up wheels, motors gears etc anytime, but need the MT chassis.  I could only afford one last year and I really want a pair of these locomotives (it makes sense, given the history of the line in question).  I did think I was going to be able to buy everything at one point last year, but that was before the house sale got delayed and was ultimately cancelled.  On my uppers at the moment.

[AndrewJ]

We are looking to do a number of standard Sharp stewart loco kits initally in 7mm but if there is a demand we might be tempted to do them in 4mm.

 

the locos we are looking at are:

0-6-0T (Furness/Cambrian/WM&CQR)

2-4-0 (Furness/Cambrian/Pembroke and Tenby/Manchester and Milford)

2-4-0T/2-4-2T (Cambrian/Furness) rebuilt from 2-4-0 tender locos

0-6-0 (Furness/Cambrian/North Staffs/Pembroke and Tenby) Choice of tenders

0-4-0ST (Furness/Cambrian)

 

Marc

I'd also be very interested in these in 4mm - or possibly even 2mm if that isnt shrinking things too far!!?

 

Andrew

[NCB]

 

 

The 0-6-0 which Peter K once produced I understand had multiple variations but I would need two, eventually, in 1895 guise.

 

The Kemilway site still lists the Peter K 0-6-0 Sharpies. I bought bits of one many years ago when he'd discontinued them and that was all he had left, and only recently found out they're listed again. See:

http://www.kemilway.com/peter-k.html

 

Nigel

[Edwardian]

The Kemilway site still lists the Peter K 0-6-0 Sharpies. I bought bits of one many years ago when he'd discontinued them and that was all he had left, and only recently found out they're listed again. See:

http://www.kemilway.com/peter-k.html

 

Nigel

 

Are these not particularly difficult kits, or, rather, etched components merely, (and I speak as a novice)?

[DLT]

Interesting, not a loco I've ever come across before.

Dave.

[ChrisN]

The Kemilway site still lists the Peter K 0-6-0 Sharpies. I bought bits of one many years ago when he'd discontinued them and that was all he had left, and only recently found out they're listed again. See:

http://www.kemilway.com/peter-k.html

 

Nigel

 

This thread may be of interest.  Quarryscapes building two 0-6-0s from Peter K.

[Edwardian]

This thread may be of interest.  Quarryscapes building two 0-6-0s from Peter K.

 

Yep, as I thought.  I doubt I'll live long enough to have the time to master the basic skills to build any etched brass kit.  I oscillate between feeling morally obliged to aspire to etched brass construction, because only then would I be a proper modeller, and feeling that it is a medium that has, or should have had, its day!  Frankly, I find the whole thing extremely off-putting.

 

Then there are the shocking kits one hears of, spoken about in cautious undertones, rather like old sailors might talk of unlucky ships or thespians of the Scottish Play.

 

I had thought these Peter K jobs to be amongst the shockers, and, certainly, Quarryscapes' topic does little to reassure, with comments like "Headache inducing twins ...   And boy what a headache these are going to give me!" and "It is possible to build the Peter K 'Sharpie', but be prepared to remake a lot of the kit ... It is an absolute pig of a kit".

 

But, really, I only had to see the picture of the fret of etched parts to realise that I should not even think about etched kits at all!

 

I respect anyone who can produce a model from this nightmare flat-pack! 

[webbcompound]

Yep, as I thought.  I doubt I'll live long enough to have the time to master the basic skills to build any etched brass kit.

Then there are the shocking kits one hears of, spoken about in cautious undertones, rather like old sailors might talk of unlucky ships or thespians of the Scottish Play.

I had thought these Peter K jobs to be amongst the shockers, and, certainly, Quarryscapes' topic does little to reassure, with comments like "Headache inducing twins ...   And boy what a headache these are going to give me!" and "It is possible to build the Peter K 'Sharpie', but be prepared to remake a lot of the kit ... It is an absolute pig of a kit".

But, really, I only had to see the picture of the fret of etched parts to realise that I should not even think about etched kits at all!

 

 

Courage mon brave! I learned how to build an etched kit in two days at the Missenborough course, but actually very little of that was learning and most was building. To learn how to solder will probably take less than an hour if you can find someone to show you how (someone who knows how to do it properly that is). I'm not biased, I will use plastic, white metal, brass, nickel silver, even cardboard as necessary to get the end result, but a think a lot of rubbish is talked about etched kits.

 

Older ones may be more difficult, in the sense that some parts may be incorrect, but basically they are all much the same, unless you buy a super elite designed kit like High Level turn out. I'm just finishing a Dragon kits TVR brakevan. I had to modify it to make my prototype, but that is par for the course I think with early stuff or minor lines. Things had to be made square, but then they also do with plastic kits (if you can get them for the period I model), and with those I tend to get fingerprints welded into the surface, at least with soldering you learn how to get your fingers out of the way before that happens.

 

I have yet to start on the bits of my PeterK Sharpy which I need for my WMCQ tank, but I doubt they will need more than a bit of filing or addon soldering if they aren't right. The rest I will probably fabricate from nickel silver OR plasticard, but the metal would be more durable so that is likely to influence my choice. Also the roof is supported on four stanchion type pillars, and to make that in plastic would be asking for trouble.

 

As far as I can see there are only two guiding principles for soldering: keep it clean, and keep it hot. Clean the metal before soldering, use lots of flux, use the hottest setting you can for a rapid result, and clean the piece after every work session.

[Edwardian]

Webcompound, thank you for those few kind words, and while I fear you may have kindly underestimated the degree of incompetence that I bring to any skilled task, I take your point.  It might be that a course at Missenden would work for me.  When I am in funds, I will seriously consider it.

[Andy Hayter]

Be not afraid of the black art that is soldering.
 
Like you I was once quite adept at modelling buildings (well perhaps not as good as you and certainly not as quick) and I had a complete fear of the black arts.
 
Then the OH decided she needed a vivarais Mallet for her HOe layout.  No kits then available, so the result was I had to scratch build a body to go onto two n gauge 0-6-0 chassis.  I could have done it in plasticard, but I was worried about getting the rivets represented in a consistent way.  So instead I went for thin brass sheet and soldered it all together.

There is a thread elsewhere running at the moment with a lot of good advice about how to get going with soldering.


http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/110457-brass-kits-the-perennial-newbie-question/

 

 

Forget about which kit to get and look through to the other advice. 

 

Get a cheap 40/50W iron (later you can invest in temperature controlled gismos. resistance soldering boxes, etc) and some standard 180C solder - you could even start with standard electricians solder, I did.  Get a bottle of flux (I actually started with plumbers flux paste and nothing has corroded away).  Get an empty beer can* (see we can already have some fun emptying it). Now start to try and cut bits and solder them together as suggested.  I think you will be surprised.   Iron £6, solder £3, flux £2, beer can £1 - £12 and you are on your way.

 

* just make sure with a magnet that it is steel and not aluminium - which (I am told) can be soldered - but only with difficulty.

 

I do not want to criticise training sessions like Great Missenden, but they (like the fancy soldering bits and bobs) are not essential - just a great aid. 

[webbcompound]

I agree Missenden is by no means essential. And my attendance involved some saving up money, negotiating use of holiday time within the family and consequently incorporating a visit to ageing relatives, but if you can do it it really jump starts things as far as confidence goes. Alternatively all the finescale societies have local groups that are (usually) quite friendly and someone there will more than likely be able to offer guidance on soldering. They don't usually require you to be modelling finescale either.

 

I would recommend the plumbers flux paste (as did my mentors at Missenden)  from the hardware shop as you can see where you have put it, and it holds the solder in place until it melts. It is fine as long as you clean up afterwards. I use CIF cream cleaner and an old toothbrush

[Quarryscapes]

The only dimensions I can find for the Buckley engine are that it had 18x24" cylinders and 4'3" wheels. It looks considerably longer than the Cambrian loco. The Cambrian loco belonged to the N&M originally, so pre-dates the Buckley one by almost 20 years. I doubt that there's very much interchangeable in the designs. 

[Edwardian]

Thanks all 3 of you for the wise words of encouragement.  I mention a course because I really think I need to be shown how to do this if I am to have a chance (I really am quite useless at anything practical).

[ChrisN]

Thanks all 3 of you for the wise words of encouragement.  I mention a course because I really think I need to be shown how to do this if I am to have a chance (I really am quite useless at anything practical).

 

Not completely.  Cutting cardboard and sticking printed paper on them to make your village is practical, so was altering your coach.

[Caley Jim]

Heat (40W-50W), physical cleanliness (purple Scotchbrite) and chemical cleanliness (flux - 9% phosphoric acid, or paste flux) and standard solder, used sparingly.

 

That's it.

Other than practice with some scraps of metal.

Couldn't agree more, but also consider solder paint. It has its own flux, means you don't have to tin surfaces first and you don't end up with a mass of excess solder obscuring the detail, which you then have to try and remove without damaging the detail. 

 

One extra: keep the bit clean (damp sponge),

Alternatively one of those pan scourer type cleaners.  i think i got mine from one of the electronics retailers, Maplin or Rapid.

 

i also agree that what you have shown with your buildings demonstrates that you are far from being ham-fisted and have plenty dexterity.  The only thing I would caution against is that I find etched kits (good ones) can become an addiction!    Oh! One other thing - nickel silver is much more friendly to work with than brass.

 

Jim

[Edwardian]

Not completely.  Cutting cardboard and sticking printed paper on them to make your village is practical, so was altering your coach.

 

Couldn't agree more, but also consider solder paint. It has its own flux, means you don't have to tin surfaces first and you don't end up with a mass of excess solder obscuring the detail, which you then have to try and remove without damaging the detail. 

 

Alternatively one of those pan scourer type cleaners.  i think i got mine from one of the electronics retailers, Maplin or Rapid.

 

i also agree that what you have shown with your buildings demonstrates that you are far from being ham-fisted and have plenty dexterity.  The only thing I would caution against is that I find etched kits (good ones) can become an addiction!    Oh! One other thing - nickel silver is much more friendly to work with than brass.

 

Jim

 

Kind, but people here practise varying degrees of miniature engineering.  What I do is more like something from Blue Peter in the 1970s!

 

"Solder paint" sounds wonderful, but adds to my confusion at this stage!

[webbcompound]

My experience with solder paint is that it produces a fine splatter which needs extensive cleaning. Thick gel flux and solder wire gives me absolute control. You can shave tiny amounts off the end of the wire and it doesnt lead to needing excessive scraping. Alternatively you can get tiny solder balls on ebay http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/25K-Lead-BGA-Solder-Balls-0-3-0-35-0-4-0-45-0-5-0-55-0-6-0-65-0-76mm-/201144782733?var=&hash=item2ed529cf8d:m:mzfhqZnX-lulfqMaD7Q4TSQ for example these start at.3mm and go up to .75mm. They stick in the gel so sit exactly where you want them.

[BlueLightning]

Kind, but people here practise varying degrees of miniature engineering.  What I do is more like something from Blue Peter in the 1970s!

 

"Solder paint" sounds wonderful, but adds to my confusion at this stage!

 

That is exactly the attitude I had about my modelling until very recently. I had never tried scratch building until I was given the layout that became Oak Hill and thought I would be terrible at it from experience with other things I do, (eg. I have all my baseboards made for me as I can't cut straight with a saw of any kind.).

 

However when I was given the layout I decided I would give it a go and have been shocked by how well the things I have made have come out. They are not perfect but when I look at them I feel a real sense of pride and am so glad I decided to give it a go.

 

And that has lead to more with my Gladstone class so to become my first scratch built loco (OK it's on an R-T-R chassis but that has been heavily modified.)

 

Go on you know you want to try.

 

Gary

[Edwardian]

Gary, you also have a very valid point. 

 

To an extent budgetary constraints affect me; recycling cereal packets and clear plastic packaging is one thing, but investing in equipment and etch brass kits is a little beyond me at present.  This is no bad thing, of course, because I can learn some basic skills bodging about with what's in the drawer, so that by the time my financial position has eased, I might be a little more 'evolved' as a modeller! 

 

I'd like to think that, if someone produced a kit of an interesting engine like this GC tank, I'd be able to build it one day.  A couple of RT Models Manning Wardles would be nice!

[BlueLightning]

I can sympathise with the budgetary constraints. I think most of us have been in very bad places at times and in fact the lack of funds is one of the reasons I decided to try scratch building. Most of what I have done on Oak Hill has been with materials I had left over from projects in the past and in fact the total spend on the layout so far has been less than £10! Admittedly that is helped by being the IT guru for the local model shop (The Adams radial was paid with a website).

 

I hope once your situation improves you do at least have a try as what I have seen from you so far shows the potential for you to be an excellent modeller and I'm sure you will be able to make some excellent models.

 

Gary

[CKPR]

Edwardian,

Mainly Trains were running their business down last time I heard, but looking at their site now it still seems to be functioning.

 

I've just bought the Cambrian 2-4-0T chassis kit from them so they are still trading and, more pertinently, still have this item in stock.

[CKPR]

Are these not particularly difficult kits, or, rather, etched components merely, (and I speak as a novice)?

 

it's not so much that these are difficult kits, more that they are very poor kits  comprising wonky brass etchings (hand-drawn artwork,  anyone ?!) coupled with very nice turnings and BLW castings. As detailed elsewhere (sorry, but I can't find the link but Quarryscapes will remember as he provided some useful critique), I've managed to produce a couple of FR engines from this kit but I really wouldn't recommend it as an initial etched brass build. That said, the tender goes together much more easily that the locomotive itself and I've still got one in stock basically for the Sharp Stewart standard 4w tender.

 

On the topic of soldering, I would agreement with the other comments and just add an observation from Cyril Freezer, who said that if you can model in card, you can model in sheet metal with the caveat that the latter is actually easier as you can rectify your mistakes more easily !