Tavistock North in N Gauge

[6029 King Stephen]

Following discussion in another thread, I have decided to use the L-Girder and cookie cutter system for my Tavistock layout.  The previous attempt was 12' long but the revised version will be 16' as I now have an 18' x 10' shed to accommodate it.  The width will increase slightly from 30" to 32" with the possibility of the curves at the end widening to 36".  I might also explore the possibility of making one end into a small L shape to gain an extra 4'.

 

So far I have reprinted the Tempot layout plan but after obtaining a 1906 edition Ordnance Survey map of Tavistock and photocopying and enlarging the railway onto A3 sheets, I am tempted to redo the Templot plan to ensure that the plan is correct.  The scenic boundaries for the layout will be an overbridge to the left of the viaduct and an overbridge to the right hand side after it has gone up the 1 in 75 gradient and over an underbridge.  If I extend the layout into an L and gain 4', then the right hand boundary will extend to the next overbridge.

 

I have the updated Okehampton Line Irwell Press book and am fortunate that this has many more photos of Tavistock North than the first edition, including plans of the viaduct and platform elevation of the station building.  I have discovered some new photos on the internet, including colour shots of the signal box and line running Eastwards, verifying that there is a double slip rather than the single slip that I bought.  I will have to change that.

 

I have decided to change the L-Girder construction as 6x1 and 4x1 timber with 2x1 cross members with 2x1 uprights and 1x1 cleats will produce something that is too heavy.  Instead, I am going to use lengths of 18mm ply 6" and 4" wide to create the L-Girder and then 4" high by 32" wide lengths of 18mm ply to form the cross members, all screwed together using Kreg pocket hole screws system.  Uprights will also use the same 18mm ply as will the cleats.  The track bed will be 9mm ply covered with 3mm closed cell foam.

 

I am amazed at how expensive ply is in the UK.  You have to sell and arm and a leg to get marine ply (£64 for 18mm 8'x4' sheet) and even hardwood ply varies between £34-£40 per sheet.  I will be opting for 18mm hardwood ply from B&Q at £34 with free cutting - I went to buy it on Wednesday but they had run out!  I will probably buy my 9mm ply from my local timber seller as they seem to be the only ones that will sell an 8'x4' sheet.  Delivery might be the killer or the £1 per cut!

 

In the meantime, I am going to make a scale plan of the layout using the enlargements of the OS map, with cardboard and wooden buildings so that I can work out where the board joins will be.  Once construction proper begins, I will take and post some photos.  Until then, the research continues....

 

Regards,

 

Steve

 

[Siberian Snooper]

Following discussion in another thread, I have decided to use the L-Girder and cookie cutter system for my Tavistock layout.  The previous attempt was 12' long but the revised version will be 16' as I now have an 18' x 10' shed to accommodate it.  The width will increase slightly from 30" to 32" with the possibility of the curves at the end widening to 36".  I might also explore the possibility of making one end into a small L shape to gain an extra 4'.

 

So far I have reprinted the Tempot layout plan but after obtaining a 1906 edition Ordnance Survey map of Tavistock and photocopying and enlarging the railway onto A3 sheets, I am tempted to redo the Templot plan to ensure that the plan is correct.  The scenic boundaries for the layout will be an overbridge to the left of the viaduct and an overbridge to the right hand side after it has gone up the 1 in 75 gradient and over an underbridge.  If I extend the layout into an L and gain 4', then the right hand boundary will extend to the next overbridge.

 

I have the updated Okehampton Line Irwell Press book and am fortunate that this has many more photos of Tavistock North than the first edition, including plans of the viaduct and platform elevation of the station building.  I have discovered some new photos on the internet, including colour shots of the signal box and line running Eastwards, verifying that there is a double slip rather than the single slip that I bought.  I will have to change that.

 

I have decided to change the L-Girder construction as 6x1 and 4x1 timber with 2x1 cross members with 2x1 uprights and 1x1 cleats will produce something that is too heavy.  Instead, I am going to use lengths of 18mm ply 6" and 4" wide to create the L-Girder and then 4" high by 32" wide lengths of 18mm ply to form the cross members, all screwed together using Kreg pocket hole screws system.  Uprights will also use the same 18mm ply as will the cleats.  The track bed will be 9mm ply covered with 3mm closed cell foam.

 

I am amazed at how expensive ply is in the UK.  You have to sell and arm and a leg to get marine ply (£64 for 18mm 8'x4' sheet) and even hardwood ply varies between £34-£40 per sheet.  I will be opting for 18mm hardwood ply from B&Q at £34 with free cutting - I went to buy it on Wednesday but they had run out!  I will probably buy my 9mm ply from my local timber seller as they seem to be the only ones that will sell an 8'x4' sheet.  Delivery might be the killer or the £1 per cut!

 

In the meantime, I am going to make a scale plan of the layout using the enlargements of the OS map, with cardboard and wooden buildings so that I can work out where the board joins will be.  Once construction proper begins, I will take and post some photos.  Until then, the research continues....

 

Regards,

 

Steve

Why not use the ability of Templot to download the map from the NLS to the correct scale?

[6029 King Stephen]

Hi,

 

I tried to download the map from the NLS through Templot2 but it would not work for me.  I have reverted to my original plan using Templot1 and have reprinted the layout plan with the prototypical kink as the line left the station, heading towards Lydford.  I have cut the templates down and have joined some of them together.  The overall layout dimensions I am working to are 16' long by 33" wide.  This should allow me to get the viaduct, station and goods yard to prototypical length.  I had bought a single slip but will be replacing this with the correct double slip.  I have bought the hardwood ply and make a start on assembling the frames using the L-Girder system (5.5" wide 18mm ply strips screwed with pocket hole screws to form the L) with cross members of 2"x1" timber that will also be used to form the uprights and cleats.  The track bed is 12mm ply which will be covered with 3mm closed cell foam (Hobby Holidays).  I found that using 6mm ply on the previous attempt with the 3mm foam left a lot of the Peco turnout operating wire poking through the tie bar that was difficult to shorten without damaging the point.  This time I will be using a scrap piece of 12mm ply with 3mm foam glued on and then push the operating wire through this and the tie bar and then mark how much is needed to be removed.  I will then remove this amount from the turnout motor before installing them to make life easier for me.

 

I am on leave all next week, so I hope to start making some rapid progress on the layout to at least get the hidden 6 road fiddle yard in place.  I will take some pictures and post them to provide the necessary incentive to make further progress.

 

Regards,

 

Steve

[6029 King Stephen]

A view of Tavistock viaduct in early June 2018. A test to see how easy it was to load a photo...!

 

Regards,

 

Steve

[6029 King Stephen]

OK, I have now made a start. I have cut down the Templot templates and sellotaped the sheets together. As I am using Peco track, the plan is only a guide as I will not be handbuilding the track. I have laid them on my four, 4’x2’ 12mm ply sheets to get an idea of size. Using Peco set track 3rd and 4th radius curves at each end, with a transition formed with the Streamline flexi, I will need an extra 4” at each end, so I will call it 17’ in length overall. For width, at the Plymouth end 33” will be sufficient but at the Lydford end it will be 42” wide. However, I did’t try skewing the plan on the boards to enable the Lydford end to be within the 33” width.

 

The photos show the templot plan laid on the boards. The Lydford end is nearest to the camera. I have also built all the “L”s for the framework and will build the Lydford end board first. I will take a picture of that, hopefully tomorrow afternoon, depending on progress.

 

Regards,

 

Steve

[6029 King Stephen]

OK, I have now made a start. I have cut down the Templot templates and sellotaped the sheets together. As I am using Peco track, the plan is only a guide as I will not be handbuilding the track. I have laid them on my four, 4’x2’ 12mm ply sheets to get an idea of size. Using Peco set track 3rd and 4th radius curves at each end, with a transition formed with the Streamline flexi, I will need an extra 4” at each end, so I will call it 17’ in length overall. For width, at the Plymouth end 33” will be sufficient but at the Lydford end it will be 42” wide. However, I did’t try skewing the plan on the boards to enable the Lydford end to be within the 33” width.

 

The photos show the templot plan laid on the boards. The Lydford end is nearest to the camera in pictures 2&3. I have also built all the “L”s for the framework and will build the Lydford end board first. I will take a picture of that, hopefully tomorrow afternoon, depending on progress.

 

No idea why it has posted the same text twice....

 

Regards,

 

Steve

Edited August 11, 2018 by 6029 King Stephen

[brianusa]

Steve, at this rate you might be ready before the reopening of the line!

 

Brian.

[Siberian Snooper]

Looks Good.

[ba14eagle]

Only just found this thread, but I've always thought that this location would be a good layout to do, in a "what if" scenario ie the line had stayed open

[Joseph_Pestell]

OK, I have now made a start. I have cut down the Templot templates and sellotaped the sheets together. As I am using Peco track, the plan is only a guide as I will not be handbuilding the track. I have laid them on my four, 4’x2’ 12mm ply sheets to get an idea of size. Using Peco set track 3rd and 4th radius curves at each end, with a transition formed with the Streamline flexi, I will need an extra 4” at each end, so I will call it 17’ in length overall. For width, at the Plymouth end 33” will be sufficient but at the Lydford end it will be 42” wide. However, I did’t try skewing the plan on the boards to enable the Lydford end to be within the 33” width.

 

The photos show the templot plan laid on the boards. The Lydford end is nearest to the camera in pictures 2&3. I have also built all the “L”s for the framework and will build the Lydford end board first. I will take a picture of that, hopefully tomorrow afternoon, depending on progress.

 

No idea why it has posted the same text twice....

 

Regards,

 

Steve

 

Looking really good and looking forward to seeing this develop.

 

Just wonder if you are making best use of the space there. Might be better to skew the templates slightly on the board???

 

And, while the Peco track won't exactly match the geometry of the real thing, remember that you can bend Peco points quite a bit if that helps anywhere on the layout. I don't think you need to though.

 

And back to the slip issue, happy to swap a single for a double if I can find where I have put my stock of Peco N.

[6029 King Stephen]

Hi,

 

Well I have now built the L-Girder framework in the shed. The length is 16’ and the width nearest the camera, i.e. at the door end is 42” wide and at the other end, 35”. Although it would appear that I may not have made the best use of the space, it was reading a magazine article where someone building a layout in N had given himself more width to allow greater depth to the scenery. I decided to follow the same principle to allow a greater feeling of the railway in the landscape, something more achievable in N.

 

Next job is sorting the layout template to suit the board joins and set the height of the station and goods yard, using the viaduct height as the datum. The track will go up an incline of 1 in 75 at each end to the fiddle yard. I have decided to use Peco 3rd and 4th radii curves at each end as it is difficult to curve flexi into a tight curve. Hopefully by creating a transition curve, the Peco set track curves will be hidden from view.

 

If you have a double slip that you would swap for my single slip, I would be interested, Joseph.

 

Regards,

 

Steve

Edited August 16, 2018 by 6029 King Stephen

[Ian Smeeton]

Lookong good, and folowing with interest.

 

Have you thought about how you are ging to reach/see the fiddle yard (which I assume is at the back)?

 

With a 36" wide board, I am finding difficulty reaching over to solder up track in the middle, and I have access from both sides.

 

Regards

 

Ian

[brianusa]

Was Tavistock really this complex?

 

Brian. 

[6029 King Stephen]

On the subject of reaching the fiddle yard, I am going to use a step ladder to provide greater reach. Using the L-Girder method, I will cut the trackbed to suit the formation, solder wires to each section of track, add point motors and 3mm closed cell foam and the attach to the risers using cleats. The layout will be DCC using the Gaugemaster Prodigy 2 control system. Bus wires will run the length of the layout to which the dropper wires will be soldered. The legs of each board are 43” high, plus the 18mm L-Girder, 150mm viaduct height, 12mm trackbed thickness and 3mm closed cell foam underlay thickness. This should allow trains running at a decent height.

 

I will use modeller’s licence as far as stock goes and change some of the infrastructure to suit. I will assume that Meldon viaduct was replaced with a stone viaduct similar to Sourton/Lake viaduct. As the alternative route for the GWR as well as SR mainline, this will permit me to run my Merchant Navy, King class, Britannia and Western locos. All are liveried as early BR so I am thinking of a broad timescale of 1948-1965 or possibly a preserved line.

 

Progress is likely to be slow as I am also interested in building plastic kits and have over 100 kits in my “stash” plus white metal bus kits.

 

Regards,

 

Steve

Edited August 16, 2018 by 6029 King Stephen

[Joseph_Pestell]

When I said that you were not making best use of the space, I was not suggesting that you should have narrower boards. I took them as a given.

 

What I meant was that be slewing the template across the boards at a different angle, the track would flow better relative to that surrounding scenery which, I totally agree, will be all important to modelling this location.

[Joseph_Pestell]

Was Tavistock really this complex?

 

Brian. 

 

What do you mean by "complex"? This is a very accurate representation of the real thing. One does wonder a bit why the LSW found it necessary to have quite so much pointwork in the goods yard.

[brianusa]

It is rather complex isn't it, for a small town where usually a couple of siding would suffice in years gone by.  Miles from anywhere and as you remark, a lot of pointwork and sidings!   Great for modelling though!

 

Brian.

Edited August 17, 2018 by brianusa

[6029 King Stephen]

Rather surprisingly, Tavistock actually had two stations; one on the LSWR mainline to Plymouth and one on the GWR Plymouth to Launceston branchline. The LSWR station was above the town, hence the viaduct and the GWR station was on the other side of the town near the cattle market. What I noticed immediately when I first built the layout plan of Tavistock North (the post-nationalisation name for the old LSWR station) was the limited lengths of the kickback sidings at the Lydford end of the goods yard. The rearmost siding would only be able to receive 1 or 2 wagons plus the tank loco during shunting, due to the limited space on the kick back. However, the siding itself is quite long.

 

To ensure access to any derailed stock in the fiddle yard, I am thinking of having a gap between the back of the backscene and the fiddle yard tracks - wide enough to allow my head to see and an arm/hand in to retrieve any stock. During this bank holiday weekend I am hoping to make a start on the 6-road fiddleyard including cutting of the ply track bed, closed cell foam underlay and wiring up the point motors. Once I have done this, I should be able to determine the heights of the track beds around the front of the layout. I have already bought all the trackwork for the scenic part of the layout, with the exception of the double slip to replace the single slip that I had bought. I might have to buy extra lengths of track to complete the fiddle yard tracks.

 

Regards,

 

Steve

[Joseph_Pestell]

Hi,

 

Well I have now built the L-Girder framework in the shed. The length is 16’ and the width nearest the camera, i.e. at the door end is 42” wide and at the other end, 35”. Although it would appear that I may not have made the best use of the space, it was reading a magazine article where someone building a layout in N had given himself more width to allow greater depth to the scenery. I decided to follow the same principle to allow a greater feeling of the railway in the landscape, something more achievable in N.

 

Next job is sorting the layout template to suit the board joins and set the height of the station and goods yard, using the viaduct height as the datum. The track will go up an incline of 1 in 75 at each end to the fiddle yard. I have decided to use Peco 3rd and 4th radii curves at each end as it is difficult to curve flexi into a tight curve. Hopefully by creating a transition curve, the Peco set track curves will be hidden from view.

 

If you have a double slip that you would swap for my single slip, I would be interested, Joseph.

 

Regards,

 

Steve

 

Only just picked this up. I will take a look for the double slip.

[6029 King Stephen]

No progress made during the bank holiday weekend but having now exchanged my single slip for a double and part exchanging the last of my OO gauge for some more N gauge items, I am keen to get on with forming the fiddle yard which will provide an indication of the track height on the scenic part, this being a 1 in 75 lower than the fiddle yard at each end. First I have to clear the stuff that I have been dumping on the layout boards....

 

Regards,

 

Steve

[6029 King Stephen]

After a weekend away, I am keen to get going on the layout and get something moving in the not too distant future. Last night I cut off the waste paper from the Templot track plan and try to skew the plan slightly to make better use of the space. The areas that I want to create depth are the viaduct at the left, the station approach that comes up under the first arch of the viaduct, the goods yard with the raised street behind that will go against the backscene and the under and over bridges that are at the right hand (Lydford) end.

 

I also trimmed the template for the three road (in each direction) hidden sidings and joined these together to work out the length. The template produced an 8’ long hidden sidings area but I will increase this to 12’. Some tests with a loco and some coaches determined that the middle siding would easily accommodate two six-coach trains with a loco. With an enlarged storage area, this will permit 9 x six-coach trains in each direction. Although I don’t have this amount of stock at the moment, I imagine that in the years ahead, I might run out of capacity - here’s hoping! I marked the width for the hidden siding tracks and will cut sufficient strips for that. My plan is to lay the foam, point work and some track plus drill the holes for point motors and wire the initial three turnout section of the hidden sidings over the next two days and then continue through the hidden sidings and around to the scenic section during subsequent days.

 

Here are some photos from last night.

Edited September 4, 2018 by 6029 King Stephen

[Robert Shrives]

Skewing track to get away from lots of parallel lines is good , I notice air defence cover should be good as well !

Robert  

[6029 King Stephen]

I have now made a start on track laying....

[6029 King Stephen]

A slight miscalculation on my part will mean that the hidden sidings will only 8 fear long rather than 12. However, this shouldn’t matter as there was only one 9-coach train (Brighton to Plymouth and return) in each direction and this will fit in the longest hidden siding in each direction. The other two sidings in each direction should be sufficient for the normal 3-4 coach trains and for freight trains.

 

I was fortunate to find a Southern Railway working timetable from 1932 until further notice that is for the Western Section so I have a working timetable to use for the layout - I managed to get it for £6 in a local second hand bookshop.

 

I have now laid two points and three halves of the hidden sidings in one direction. I have wired droppers and have secured the track to the underlay using double sided tape. I now need to wire up the Peco solenoids and will then make cleats and risers and secure this section to the cross members. Then I will proceed with the other half of that set of three sidings before moving onto the inner set. From there, I will work myself round the sides and towards the front scenic area. The curves at each end will for the line as it ran straight in either direction so that I have the correct amount of under and over bridges. Photo of progress to follow.

 

Regards,

 

Steve

[6029 King Stephen]

That's the problem with reading books - they give you ideas!  I was looking through the Irwell Press Okehampton Line book to find out the curve radius for Tavistock viaduct and was reading specifically the paragraph describing the line leaving Tavistock and heading over the viaduct and it mentions some bridges before coming to Shillamill viaduct and then Shillamill tunnel.  That reminded me that going the other way there is the Wilmington viaduct.  My mind then strayed to a comment that someone had posted about accessing the hidden storage roads to the rear of the layout.  That lead to further thought about "why did the layout have to be a continuous run on a 39" wide board?  Why couldn't the layout run around the walls of the shed on an 18" to 24" wide shelf?  That way I could start building the layout from the station and then extending in either direction to include the various bridges and possibly the viaducts each end.

 

I have been able to create some more space in the shed by removing the front wheels from our bikes and storing the bikes under the layout bench work - a bike is quite narrow if the handle bars are turned lengthways, so they could still be stored under a narrower layout frame and my internal space would increase too.  I am waiting on a new tub of Febond PVA so I cannot progress any further at the moment with the track bed so I will use the time to check the feasibility of altering the layout format to a narrower shelf and extending round the shed walls.  This could also allow me to increase the capacity of the hidden sidings or create 'looped' sidings as favoured by the late C J Freezer in his plans for dumbbell layouts.

 

The curve radius for Tavistock viaduct?  40 chains - now to create and print that using Templot....

 

Regards,

 

Steve