sir douglas Posted December 3, 2016 Author Share Posted December 3, 2016 Ive been having to contemplate my layout's setting recently Something that i would like to model is the 1930's, although there was a slump early on caused by major un employment, things were going well, society, culture, railway and industry were growing even some light railways were doing well with a popularity in tourism, i want to have a "calm before the storm", this is all well and good but my latest loco build is a Hibberd Planet which is 1950's at the earliest, only after building it have i realised the problem. I either go ahead with a 30's layout and not be able to use the Planet or have a post war layout The same goes with a diecast Fergy tractor i want to use as a wagon load, that too is post war but using it would save me having to buy a pre war tractor more thinking needed Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nearholmer Posted December 13, 2016 Share Posted December 13, 2016 Something I've long had up my sleeve for a small layout depicting somewhere off the beaten track is to make it era-flexible. 1930s to 1950s wouldn't be too difficult, I think. TV aerials arrive; some cars and motorbikes have changed, but times is ard, so some pre-war ones survive; posters and adverts change; fashion doesn't, not in this backwater anyway; army-surplus things arrive ......... you get the picture. I'm convinced that one layout, with interchangeable odds and bits would work, and probably involve a lot of interesting delving into social history. You could even have an interchangeable tree, having twenty more years growth in one mode than the other, and young Bill will have gone from boy of nine, to army veteran of 29, with wife, and tiny son of their own. Kevin 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
L&Y Posted December 16, 2016 Share Posted December 16, 2016 Interesting thread. Only just discovered this! Watching with interest. Like the frog jigs. And some lovely stock. A lot of railway in the space. What radius are the points? Keep us up to date. And start the layout soon! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sir douglas Posted December 16, 2016 Author Share Posted December 16, 2016 hi L&Y, the radii vary slightly as the are a right hand and 3 non symmetrical Y points that are slightly different to each other but i cant recall their radii, they were designed to fit on the layout and have the same crossing angle of 1 in 3.5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sir douglas Posted December 20, 2016 Author Share Posted December 20, 2016 just bought a second hand yard crane from my local model shop for Deffors, it looks like a Midland 5 ton Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sir douglas Posted January 14, 2017 Author Share Posted January 14, 2017 a quick doodle on a different style of setting, ive not beenn able to e the town with a level crossing to look right of im trying more a country style, here is astone footbridge as the scenic break ive just knocked up in an hour 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sir douglas Posted January 18, 2017 Author Share Posted January 18, 2017 (edited) The original idea for the legs was to reuse the ones from HCLR but they are now too low for me as they were bult back when i was younger there for shorter so it was an ideal height for me back then. so using some bed slats i collected which were thrown out by a neighbour, 3 new legs were cut. the timber is 14 x 64mm and overall the legs are 500 x 900mm. it took a few days to cut out 24 half laps but it was worth it. i used 3 screw on each corner because i thought that since they're only little screws and in not much timber thickness so i thought that i should use 3 instead of 2 deffors legs by Sam, on Flickr Elsewhere, ive been back to the CAD to have a go at drawing the baseboard construction both boards without the top boards on and with a leg on the right the first board is standard construction. the ply thickness drawn is 5mm and the joining timber is 32mm square since i already have many lengths of it. there are cut outs in the stretchers for the leg when folded up. the second board is a copy & paste of the first but with the fiddleyard brought over from my previous file and modified to include the right board thickness i havent decided which will be king board in regard to the legs but will probably be the fiddleyard board, and secondly i dont need so much depth to the baseboards but will leave that adjustment for when i know how much i can take off Edited January 18, 2017 by sir douglas 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tove Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 (edited) Nice bit of carpentry sam, and re-purposing of timber. Are you going to put some adjustable feet on the bottom`s of the leg`s,or do you have the luxury of level floor`s?. Cheer`s, Brian. Edited January 18, 2017 by Tove Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sir douglas Posted January 18, 2017 Author Share Posted January 18, 2017 hi Tove, ive got adjustable feet waiting to put on, i bought them for HCLR but never got round to putting them on 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sir douglas Posted January 25, 2017 Author Share Posted January 25, 2017 this morning i was thinking about the how the legs on the king board would in the folded position and would anything obstruct anything else when folded, i couldnt see it properly in my head so i drew it all out full size on the piece of ply ive mentioned previously. the distance of the folded legs to the underside of the baseboard top is 90mm. i decided that about 80mm was a comfortable gap to get my hand in between for tightening and loosening bolts that go through the end of the baseboards ans since the under side of the fiddleyard sector plate well is obviosly lower so the hand gap in that end was the minimum and added the ply thicknesses t get the full 90mm on the plan the top edge represents the underside of the baseboard top, the stretchers have been drawn on to show how deep the cut outs need to be, but the main problem was planning the folding angle and how to arrangeding agle of one legs doesnt obstruct the other legs when folded. on the right shows it in both positions 002 by Sam, on Flickr close up of folding support drawing. since i have 3 legs i need 6 lengths to pair up for the supports, thse were cut out today, all the screw holes on the 3 legs have been marked and drilled but i dont yet hve enough hinges t complete the assembley 002 b by Sam, on Flickr 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sir douglas Posted February 2, 2017 Author Share Posted February 2, 2017 Ive been buying the hinges 1 or 2 packs at a time each time i go into town. i now have enough hings for 2 of the legs. I also now have enough 5mm ply to at least make the baseboard frame work for both boards but without the top surfaces. until i get around to making the boards, the angle supports are kept taped up Deffors legs (2) by Sam, on Flickr 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sir douglas Posted February 3, 2017 Author Share Posted February 3, 2017 finally some ply cut for the baseboards, i had to compromise on the board length because of the ply sheet width but the layout is now 60mm shorter. the long pieces are 1220mm by 120mm and the short ones are 590mm by 120mm, the jingt timbers are 32mm square by 120mm Deffors baseboard by Sam, on Flickr 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nearholmer Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 (edited) Something you might be troubled by, even with deep side-members, and even with the top-surface added, is flexing across the diagonal. I can't tell from the pictures how thick your side-members are (6mm? 9mm?), but I've been surprised myself by how much what is really an open-bottomed tray will flex - structural engineers have the formulae to calculate it, but I'm not a structural engineer! Once you've assembled it, lay it on a flat surface, and lift one corner only, to check how flexible it is. If that reveals a problem, you may need to tie the diagonally-opposite corners together. The ultimate is to add a bottom surface, to create a closed box, which is seriously rigid (think 'guitar' or 'flush-panel door' ), but that creates a few challenges of its own around wiring, point-actuators etc. So, a bottom surface with cut-outs is better ....... the shape shown below isn't one I've used, but I think it would work better than what I have used in the past. It needs only be very thin, and the width of the material left ones the holes are cut need only be 50mm, but provided that it is pinned and glued all the way round, and to the laterals, it will work. K Edited February 3, 2017 by Nearholmer Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sir douglas Posted February 3, 2017 Author Share Posted February 3, 2017 theres going to be 2 stretchers in each board (see the CAD work in post #32). all the ply is 5mm ill only know how much flex there is after putting it together. point motors are a non issue for me as im not using them and for wires i will just drill holes in the stretchers with my Forstner bit Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nearholmer Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 OK. Given that information, I'm prepared to wager money that it will flex across the diagonal, unless you tie the diagonally opposite corners together. Of course, a key question is whether the amount of flex is something to be concerned about. My gut feeling is that with the weight of legs fixed to it, the flex might well be sufficient to cause damage to scenery when you are shifting the layout about. By the way, are the backscene and end-scene-boards going to be integral with the structure? I ask, because, if they are, you might be able to use them to help give stiffness. K Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sir douglas Posted February 3, 2017 Author Share Posted February 3, 2017 i havent got the ply for the backscene yet but yes they will be permanent Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sir douglas Posted February 5, 2017 Author Share Posted February 5, 2017 (edited) ive now started glueing and screw the parts together Starting with the 32 square brackets they were glued and screwed onto the sides, then the smaller brackets to fix the top onto, the 2 stretchers and the ends also have the small brackets fixed on. below shows the first stretcher being fitted with a side, i was about to drill and screw them together an hour ago but ill have to leave it for now so i made sure they were well clamped together while the glue dries Deffors baseboard (3) by Sam, on Flickr Deffors baseboard (2) by Sam, on Flickr Edited February 5, 2017 by sir douglas 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
L&Y Posted February 5, 2017 Share Posted February 5, 2017 It wouldn't be a huge job to double the stretchers and turn them into beams. The sides would turn into H section or at least L section. It does add to the expense but having once built a layout that had to be scrapped due to warping and sagging I now go the other way and build boards that are probably ridiculously strong. And well. Not exactly featherweight. You can laugh at me humping them about but they will survive being driven over. Just nervous too that your boards will be stiff enough for the job. You build amazing models. Wouldn't like to see it broken up before its time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sir douglas Posted February 5, 2017 Author Share Posted February 5, 2017 (edited) now ive built the king board, there is more flex as i thought just like Nearholmer predicted, as i haven't got enough board yet for the tops, ill have them thicker than i originally planned and i can double up the stretchers either side of the blocks, like ive just drawn in on the CAD while im on the subject of the CAD, im still changing it and moving things about, my latest idea is to change it back to front and have the fiddle yard at the front instead of hidden in the old versions, the fiddle yard would have to be operated from the back but i want to operated from the front not only because i want to but also because the layout will be against a wall here at home, so the layout would have to be facing the wall to have the space to swing the sector plate about, so the only option is to have the whole layout facing the same way. deffors sketchup screenshot (16) by Sam, on Flickr deffors sketchup screenshot (17) by Sam, on Flickr Ive chosen not to do it the other way round with the siding at the front because, ive added stock shelves onto the back of the fiddleyard but with it the otherway round the far track would be permantly under the shelf as the sector plate off to one side Edited February 5, 2017 by sir douglas 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nearholmer Posted February 5, 2017 Share Posted February 5, 2017 Doubling your laterals, other than the end ones, won't help much to cure flex; doubling the longitudinals will, a bit, but the real cure is to tie the diagonally opposite corners together. Try it with a mock-up made of thin card; you'll be impressed by how effective it is. K Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sir douglas Posted February 6, 2017 Author Share Posted February 6, 2017 ill have a go at making up lattice work in the boards then, but i'll have to be careful of them not getting in the way of the angle supports when folded up here is the king board at the moments, it still needs the top which i haven't got yet and the timbers on the inside of the ends to fit the legs to Deffors baseboard (4) by Sam, on Flickr 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Kirk Posted February 6, 2017 Share Posted February 6, 2017 Hi Sam, Triangulating the structure with spars will undoubtedly lead to a stiffer structure and if you intend "open top" baseboards then I would say they are essential. I see though you refer to the "top". If this is going to be ply and you can bond it securely to your plywood structure then this will itself provide the "across the corners" stiffening of a small spar. Another sheet bonded to the bottom would give you a really strong structure but would get in the way. Narrow strips around the bottom edges (like having another sheet on the bottom with most of the middle cut away) would contribute some of this extra strength. Especially if you can include triangular "gussets" in the four corners. Just another way of obtaining the same thing. Barnes Wallis geodetic design Wellington and De Haviland stressed ply Mosquito both produced strong airframes. Keep up the good work. best wishes, Ian 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sir douglas Posted February 7, 2017 Author Share Posted February 7, 2017 more progress today, got the second board glued & screwed together, cut out the sector plate board & got that screwed down and screwed in the timber on the inside of the ends Deffors baseboard (5) by Sam, on Flickr Deffors baseboard (7) by Sam, on Flickr the pencil line is the radius of the sector plate and ive given a 30mm overlap with the main board to join them together Deffors baseboard (6) by Sam, on Flickr 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sir douglas Posted February 10, 2017 Author Share Posted February 10, 2017 (edited) locating dowels now fitted. To get the holes perfcetly lined up between the board for the dowels, i clamped them together before drilling, the dowels are 6mm bolts with blank shafts before the heads, the heads were cut off and the end rounded with a file, the bolts are then threaded into the holes leaving the blank shafts sticking out. the slots on the other board are cupbor door magnet plates drilled out and countersunk example plate Deffors baseboard (8) by Sam, on Flickr The additional cross members have been cut out of spare 10mm ply, more 32mm square joining block have been cut for these and have the angles cut out of them Edited February 10, 2017 by sir douglas Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sir douglas Posted February 12, 2017 Author Share Posted February 12, 2017 All three of the legs would be on by now if i had enough screws but one of them cant be fitted i buy another pack the middle cross members and bracket blocks are being put together but are not yet ready to fit to the boards the fiddleyard board with leg. there two block glued to the underside of the sector plate board edge, these arent screwed in because the mainboard will be screwed down into it Deffors baseboard (9) by Sam, on Flickr leg and folding support, een though planned for the cross members to not obstruct the support, it did anyway so i had to shorten them and repostition them on the legs and the underside of the board, for this view below i still haven't cut the block for the hinge to sit on under the board. Deffors baseboard (10) by Sam, on Flickr 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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