Peco PL-10 point motor versus Seep PM1

[6029 King Stephen]

As some may be aware, I have recently started to build an N Gauge layout using Peco code 55 track and having laid the track, I am looking towards wiring it up.  I am using electrofrog turnouts and want them to be electrically operated, using a separate power supply to the DCC that the track will be wired for and am undecided between using the Peco PL-10E (extended pin) point motor which is available in a pack of 6 from Hattons for £34 or the Seep PM1 that comes with a built in switch for changing polarity or accessories for £4 each which, when buying 16 could save me over £30.  What would others recommend?

 

On the subject of wiring the turnouts, when building PCB and C&L plastic-based pointwork in OO gauge I have had to use a switch to change the polarity of the frog.  However, according to the instructions provided with the electrofrog N gauge turnouts it states that they are ready for use and it doesn't make any mention of needing a switch to change the polarity.  It suggests feeding power to the toe and ensuring that all turnouts are connected in series.  If the diverging roads face each other, as in a crossover, then insulated joiners should be used.  I have followed this advice when laying the track but have not connected any power to the trackwork to test this theory.  Do I need a polarity switch?

 

Regards,

 

Steve

[Littlethorpe]

I am currently fitting Point Motors & wiring in the fiddle yard in my N Gauge layout. I have been experimenting with Seep, Peco (normal & extended pin) & Gaugemaster Classic (similar to Peco) Point Motors.

 

There is no need to use a switch to supply power to the frogs of Peco Electrofrog Points although I know that some people do.

 

You will not need a polarity switch with crossovers etc as long as your power feeds & insulated rail joiners in the correct place.

 

Having experimented with the Point Motors listed above I have decided that for the majority of points that the Seep PM2 (no switch) is the easiest and at £3.50 each from Hattons is by far the cheapest solution. In some locations I have had to mount the pount motors above the baseboard; in this case either the Peco or Gaugemaster Classic can be mounted on a Peco PL-12X Adapter Base.

 

The main advantage of the Gauemaster Classic is that no soldering is required as these have screw connectors.

 

Fitting the Gaugemaster Classic directly to the Point Tie-Bar required a very large hole in the Baseboard (I use 9mm Ply) due to the screw connectors & I don't think it's particulary suitable for N Gauge. The Peco doesn't require such a large hole.

 

Hope this helps.

[Mick Bonwick]

I have used many Peco PL-10 point motors and many Seep Pm-1 and -2 point motors. The approach I take now is to use the cheaper Seep machines in the knowledge that they are more likely to fail than the Peco ones, but ensure that they can be replaced easily if they do. I manage this by soldering the wires to every tab on the motor and then to a 3- or 6-way chocolate block connector so that the wiring disruption is minimal in the event of failure. Just disconnect the wires at the connector, solder up a new assembly and install it.

 

You don't actually NEED a polarity switch, but many people prefer to use one, as already mentioned.

[Crewlisle]

As some may be aware, I have recently started to build an N Gauge layout using Peco code 55 track and having laid the track, I am looking towards wiring it up.  I am using electrofrog turnouts and want them to be electrically operated, using a separate power supply to the DCC that the track will be wired for and am undecided between using the Peco PL-10E (extended pin) point motor which is available in a pack of 6 from Hattons for £34 or the Seep PM1 that comes with a built in switch for changing polarity or accessories for £4 each which, when buying 16 could save me over £30.  What would others recommend?

 

On the subject of wiring the turnouts, when building PCB and C&L plastic-based pointwork in OO gauge I have had to use a switch to change the polarity of the frog.  However, according to the instructions provided with the electrofrog N gauge turnouts it states that they are ready for use and it doesn't make any mention of needing a switch to change the polarity.  It suggests feeding power to the toe and ensuring that all turnouts are connected in series.  If the diverging roads face each other, as in a crossover, then insulated joiners should be used.  I have followed this advice when laying the track but have not connected any power to the trackwork to test this theory.  Do I need a polarity switch?

 

Regards,

 

Steve

 

With reference to the second paragraph, I entirely agree & the answer is no you do not need a polarity switch.  My 00 gauge DCC layout Crewlisle has been on the exhibition circuit for 30 years, has 30 Peco Code 100 Electrofrogs & the only polarity switch on my layout is for my live diamond.  According to some contributors, the number of articles I have written stating that all Peco Code 100 points can be used straight out of the box makes me a heretic who should be burnt at the stake!

 

However, with Code 75 points you may require a polarity switch due to the smaller contact area between the switch blade & fixed rail.

 

Peter

[Suzie]

The Seep motor's built in switch will probably not be too reliable with the small blade movement of code 55 points, so probably not worth considering. If you can get it to work setting it up will be hell - it is hard enough in 4mm!

 

Peco PL10EW with PL15 switch will be a much better option, easy to set up (you cannot easily separate the switch rails from the frog on code 55 so switching position is critical), and should be reliable. Once you have set it up you don't really want to be doing it again because a motor or switch has failed. Don't be tempted to use a PL13 switch as these are little better than the Seep switches.

 

Unless you are scrupulously clean and very careful with the weathering relying on the built in switching is not a good idea. Some people can do it, but not the majority.

 

Of course you pay your money and take your choice, but solenoids are not the cheapest option if you want a reliable solution - slow motion motors or servos usually come out cheaper than the ~£17 per point that solenoids cost in the end (~£15 with your Hatton's deal).

[Titan]

 

Of course you pay your money and take your choice, but solenoids are not the cheapest option if you want a reliable solution - slow motion motors or servos usually come out cheaper than the ~£17 per point that solenoids cost in the end (~£15 with your Hatton's deal).

 

£17 per point?

 

Using the Hattons Seep motor at £3.50 and one of these:

 

 http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/KEMET-EE2-12SNUH-L-RELAY-DPCO-2A-12V-SMD- at LATCHING-/171642141588?hash=item27f6ab3b94:g:l2kAAOSwWKtUtsK6

 

with the coils wired in parallel with the seep, at £2.45 gets me to a grand total of £5.95 per point. And they are a heck of a lot more reliable than any point motor mounted switch.

[sp1]

£17 per point?

 

Using the Hattons Seep motor at £3.50 and one of these:

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/KEMET-EE2-12SNUH-L-RELAY-DPCO-2A-12V-SMD- at LATCHING-/171642141588?hash=item27f6ab3b94:g:l2kAAOSwWKtUtsK6

 

with the coils wired in parallel with the seep, at £2.45 gets me to a grand total of £5.95 per point. And they are a heck of a lot more reliable than any point motor mounted switch.

How would you wire that together?

[Titan]

It is a double pole latching relay. One coil of the relay is wired in parallel with one coil of the point motor, the other coil of the relay is wired in parallel with the other coil of the point motor. As it is latching it does not need a constant feed, one pulse to one coil will switch it one way, one pulse to the other coil will switch it the other way, just like a point motor. As it is double pole double throw on the switching side, it is the equivalent of two switches in one. Not only that you can easily wire in as many as you like for frog switching, signals, point indicators etc. Of course for the latter you can even have it mounted in the control panel as they do not need to be near the points in question.

[Suzie]

£17 per point?

 

Using the Hattons Seep motor at £3.50 and one of these:

 

 http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/KEMET-EE2-12SNUH-L-RELAY-DPCO-2A-12V-SMD- at LATCHING-/171642141588?hash=item27f6ab3b94:g:l2kAAOSwWKtUtsK6

 

with the coils wired in parallel with the seep, at £2.45 gets me to a grand total of £5.95 per point. And they are a heck of a lot more reliable than any point motor mounted switch.

As much as I like the latching relays I think they would be a bit troublesome in a N-gauge scenario because they will switch the frog polarity long before the point blades have moved, so there is likely to be a momentary short.

 

Key to suitable solution for the code 55 Electrofrog (where it is a bit tricky to isolate the frog from the switch rails) is to have a switch that operates at approximately the half way point (or separate switches that operate at each end as can be done with servos).