stock_2007 Posted April 27, 2016 Share Posted April 27, 2016 Hi I've just picked up a ACME E464-008 loco, great looking loco but the odd thing is that a number of photos I have of the loco show the buffer heads were removed can anyone enlighten me as to why it was done? I know they worked a lot of push-pull trains due to having only one cab. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brigo Posted April 27, 2016 Share Posted April 27, 2016 You mean like this http://www.trenomania.org/fotogallery/displayimage.php?pos=-73386 It's probably because they are fitted with a Scharfenberg type couplers which would be incompatible with buffers. Brian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stock_2007 Posted April 27, 2016 Author Share Posted April 27, 2016 Hmm ACME E464 loco number 464-008 in Italian Railway livery (FS) Apart from ACME I believe Vitrain's do one Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stock_2007 Posted April 27, 2016 Author Share Posted April 27, 2016 You mean like this http://www.trenomania.org/fotogallery/displayimage.php?pos=-73386 It's probably because they are fitted with a Scharfenberg type couplers which would be incompatible with buffers. Brian Yes just like that, but now I'm wondering why they were fitted with that coupler? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talltim Posted April 27, 2016 Share Posted April 27, 2016 I think the are basically used as part of a multiple unit, in a similar way to the Swiss Re450s. Most modern multiple units have auto couplers. The question is really, why do they have those vestigial buffers? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brigo Posted April 27, 2016 Share Posted April 27, 2016 The Scharfenberg type coupler allows a quick connection to other push-pull units or EMUs http://www.trenomania.org/fotogallery/displayimage.php?album=search&cat=0&pos=403 and they still use buffers within the train http://www.trenomania.org/fotogallery/displayimage.php?album=search&cat=0&pos=1894 Brian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stock_2007 Posted April 28, 2016 Author Share Posted April 28, 2016 As yet I've not been able to find a photo of a 464 coupled to anything with this coupling but I'm sure there will be somewhere, the odd thing is the loco has buffers at the rear? Something to think about on the way to work Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brigo Posted April 28, 2016 Share Posted April 28, 2016 As yet I've not been able to find a photo of a 464 coupled to anything with this coupling but I'm sure there will be somewhere, the odd thing is the loco has buffers at the rear? Something to think about on the way to work Perhaps you did not look at my previous post. http://www.trenomania.org/fotogallery/displayimage.php?album=search&cat=0&pos=403 The loco is coupled to the driving trailer of another push-pull set. Brian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Revolution Ben Posted April 28, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 28, 2016 Hello all, Interesting - I have seen these locos before but hadn't noticed the buffer heads were removed! What is the Orange and black target symbol for? Cheers Ben A. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talltim Posted April 28, 2016 Share Posted April 28, 2016 The Scharfenberg type coupler allows a quick connection to other push-pull units or EMUs http://www.trenomania.org/fotogallery/displayimage.php?album=search&cat=0&pos=403 and they still use buffers within the train http://www.trenomania.org/fotogallery/displayimage.php?album=search&cat=0&pos=1894 Brian The links don't seem to work, I get the site but No image to display Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brigo Posted April 28, 2016 Share Posted April 28, 2016 The links don't seem to work, I get the site but I'm using Firefox and they work OK for me. Try these alternatives, they link direct to the pictures http://www.trenomania.org/fotogallery/albums/userpics/10001/normal_FS_E464_106_Firenze_Campo_Marte_%28101%29.jpg http://www.trenomania.org/fotogallery/albums/userpics/10627/normal_TILO_E464_197_Milano_C_le_%28101%29.JPG Brian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stock_2007 Posted April 28, 2016 Author Share Posted April 28, 2016 I'm using Firefox and they work OK for me. Try these alternatives, they link direct to the pictures http://www.trenomania.org/fotogallery/albums/userpics/10001/normal_FS_E464_106_Firenze_Campo_Marte_%28101%29.jpg http://www.trenomania.org/fotogallery/albums/userpics/10627/normal_TILO_E464_197_Milano_C_le_%28101%29.JPG Brian Yes I can see what you mean now, I'll have to see if I can make up a coupler for my 464 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talltim Posted April 28, 2016 Share Posted April 28, 2016 I still find it strange that they would remove the buffer heads, but leave the rest (or replace the whole thing with headless buffers) Its also strange that as they are used in the push pull sets, the livery doesn't line up Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stock_2007 Posted April 28, 2016 Author Share Posted April 28, 2016 No need to. These Scharffenberg couplers are extensively used by Dutch railways NS and Dutch manufacturer Philotrain has suitable couplers. Actually, 2 versions: 1. working, but therefore rather crude: http://www.scaletrading.nl/philotrain/images/870-60121.jpg 2. non-working so a bit finer in appearance: http://www.scaletrading.nl/philotrain/images/870-60122.jpg Both only sold as pairs, the working pair is 10 euro but unpainted, the cosmetic pair is painted and priced ca 13 euro (plus shipping in either case) The image name is the part order number. As for removing the buffer heads, not doing so may cause damage to another unit as the buffers actually stick out in front of the coupler face (I have a lot of hands-on experience with both the Scharffenberg couplers as shown and the BSI couplers used on some NS buffer stock ) Thank you I'll try and order a pair of the non-working ones 870-60122 but as the ordering and postage details are in Dutch it may take some time Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talltim Posted April 28, 2016 Share Posted April 28, 2016 As for removing the buffer heads, not doing so may cause damage to another unit as the buffers actually stick out in front of the coupler face I can understand that, its like the retractable buffers on buckeye fitted stock in the UK. But why not remove the buffer entirely? Are the stubs left in case there is a slow speed meet with buffer fitted stock? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctor quinn Posted April 28, 2016 Share Posted April 28, 2016 Are the stubs left in case there is a slow speed meet with buffer fitted stock?As I don't recall seeing any E464s with buffer heads on my travels in Italy I think that's the case. I believe the orange and black "target' is an end of train marker. https://www.flickr.com/photos/nicks_trainstuff/1970251994/in/album-72157603091808545/ Nick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brigo Posted April 28, 2016 Share Posted April 28, 2016 Found this elsewhere on RMWeb, quote "On the rear end, buffers and UIC couplers are provided. Initially, the cab end was identically fitted on the first Trenitalia E.464s, but soon upon entering service it was decided to prepare all E.464s for split-and-join operation. Therefore, a Scharfenberg type automatic coupler was installed on the cab end, and the buffer pads were removed, leaving only the shafts as backup impact absorbers. The idea was to assemble formations consisting of one E.464 and a variable number of coaches, with the driving trailer being similarly outfitted with Scharfenberg couplers. In fact, a batch of Piano Ribassato driving trailers were thus refitted and the driving trailers for the newly designed Vivalto double deck stock were specified to be delivered with Scharfenberg couplers.However, the first six FER E.464s retain buffers and UIC couplers on the cab ends for the time being. The single TFT E.464, on the other hand, is also fitted with a Scharfenberg coupler on the cab end, and joined with a matching formation of Vivalto type stock." Full article which includes pictures of the Vitrains version http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/91257-blog-railway-abruzzese-style-for-the-italian-moments-in-life-single-cabbed-traxx-trenitalia-class-e464-electric-from-vitrains-with-piano-riba/ Brian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jjb1970 Posted September 3, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 3, 2016 The E464 has something in common with our class 47 when they were at their peak, namely that there are hundreds of the things all over Italy. I kind of wish they'd used the body style of the E454 which was a very striking locomotive, very stylish. The E464 is well served in model form as both the ACME and ViTrains versions seem very good. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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