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brian777999

GWR pre grouping loco kits other than Brassmasters.

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1. I have been looking at the Brassmasters OO gauge GWR locos in pre-grouping livery. I have decided that I want to build a loco kit like this but the Brasssmaster kits are VERY expensive. Does anybody else make GWR loco kits in their pre grouping form ?

 

2. It is my intention to use waterslide transfers for the lining of the loco. Any thoughts on that ?

 

3. Would Indian Red be close enough to the GWR red under frame colour ? I live in Australia so I cannot buy the correct Phoenix paint range

 

 

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For tank engines Alan Gibson Workshop do 517, 850 and 1076. Roxey do a Metro. Blacksmiths used to do a couple, but I would only buy at a show as Kits from Somerset are good at exracting cash and not supplying the goods,also these days it very unlikely they are available and unlikly too have the castings.

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South Eastern Finecast (Wills) also do a Metro, 1854 tank and a de Glehn compound, I think.

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1. I have been looking at the Brassmasters OO gauge GWR locos in pre-grouping livery. I have decided that I want to build a loco kit like this but the Brasssmaster kits are VERY expensive.

 

The Martin Finney kits are expensive, but they are very well designed, with comprehensive variations included. If you work methodically and take your time, they will result in a model of the highest quality - & this will mean that the cost per hour of modelling time will be low.

Don't forget that these really need Ultrascale wheels to look their best and a High Level motor/gearbox - so the kit cost isn't the end of it!

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MPR : yes, I know that there are many other things to be purchased besides the Brassmaster kit. That is why I said that they were expensive. I know they are good kits but the price is a bit high for me even before the addition of wheels, motor and gearbox.

 

Kenton : There is nothing uncertain about shipping to Australia. I have been doing it for many years and I have never lost anything...not one single parcel ! Plus Royal Mail prices are about half that of Australia Post so shipping from the UK is always cheap and very reliable. Going the other way is a different story !

 

South Eastern Finecast seem to have good prices and they also offer Romford wheel packs for some locos eg. F158 GWR 1854 saddle tank and the F180 Metro tank. Can anybody suggest a suitable motor/gearbox combination for these locos ?

Edited by brian777999

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Dragon Models do a few Cambrian, Rhymney, Taff Vale, Barry/Neath & Brecon/Metropolitan Railways.  but sadly only in 7mm I believe - though there was some talk (probably just scurrilous rumours and wishful thinking) that some of them would materialise in 4mm.

 

 

Dragon's kit of the Cambrian Small Sharps 4-4-0 is available in 4mm.

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And it looks like a lovely loco too. I suppose it is the usual supply your own wheels, motor and gearbox ?

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Dragon's kit of the Cambrian Small Sharps 4-4-0 is available in 4mm.

 

Have you built one by any chance? I've not been impressed by the rolling stock myself, wondering whether to take a chance on the loco?

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MPR : yes, I know that there are many other things to be purchased besides the Brassmaster kit. That is why I said that they were expensive. I know they are good kits but the price is a bit high for me even before the addition of wheels, motor and gearbox.

 

Kenton : There is nothing uncertain about shipping to Australia. I have been doing it for many years and I have never lost anything...not one single parcel ! Plus Royal Mail prices are about half that of Australia Post so shipping from the UK is always cheap and very reliable. Going the other way is a different story !

 

South Eastern Finecast seem to have good prices and they also offer Romford wheel packs for some locos eg. F158 GWR 1854 saddle tank and the F180 Metro tank. Can anybody suggest a suitable motor/gearbox combination for these locos ?

Highlevel roadrunner plus allows a Mashima 1024 or 1624 to power the front coupled axle of the Metro. But there is an etched motor mount supplied on the chassis for a Romford gear set allowing a DS10 to be used. I can't remember if the mounting holes are spaced for other motor types. Edit the holes are 10mm spacing on the DS10 which would allow a 1424 to be used. 4mm superpower for a Metro.

 

The following link did not paste as a hyperlink but type buffalo buffalo into the site search and you will get the detail of a build of the Gibson 1076 and use of a Highlevel gearbox and Mashima 1220 motor. The 1854 saddle is basically the same dimensions. In 00 you would need to use the 1020 but it may be possible to use a gearbox (roadrunner plus or slim liner plus) that allows the motor to be lowered in the frames and use a 1024. This blog also covers building a Finney Dean Goods and very fine it looks.

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php/blog/87/entry-577-page-4/

 

Also not mentioned so far is the Malcolm Mitchell 0517 from David Geen. I have read that they are similar in quality to the Finney kits.

 

Oakhill

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Also worth looking at this. At the end is a view from above the chassis. The same geometry can be achieved using a Highlevel roadrunner/ slim liner and the appropriate drivestretcher. This hides a massive motor in the boiler of a GWR saddle / pannier tank.

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/blog/12/entry-17271-57xx-part-2/

 

However these are all rear axle drive solutions. Some do not like and I am keeping my opinions to myself having been criticised at work today for having an opinion rather than quoting facts.

 

Oakhill

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If I remember correctly I had a big problem building the Ratio brake van kit : the sole bars are moulded to the sides and when you glue the two sides together then the axle boxes were too far apart to accept the wheels ! Anybody else have this problem ? I was using Alan Gibson wheels at the time so if I were to do this kit again I think I might need slightly longer axles. Any comments or suggestions would be welcome.

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Have you built one by any chance? I've not been impressed by the rolling stock myself, wondering whether to take a chance on the loco?

 

I haven't built one of those but from my personal experience of other Dragon kits they are pretty good. The proprietor is also quite helpful and easy going. He does carry a few kits from other older ranges that might not be quite as good but as I say not THAT bad. Instructions on his more recent kits are very good and come with step by step build instructions with photos of the build.

Edited by Kenton

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Falcon Brass did some early GWR prototypes – if you can find them. Half the price of Finney and 10 times as difficult...

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I think (though I haven't made them so wouldn't be too certain) some of the kits mentioned are not in the pre-grouping form. I think the Finecast Metro has the post-grouping Collet bunker for instance, the Roxey one has more options I think - there is a thread on these in the GW stock section.

There is also the Mitchell 517 - which I think has pre-grouping period options - not cheap again though, but good.

Gibson does saddle tank as well as pannier versions of the 850 and 1076 of course, not sure about bunker types on them.

Edited by johnarcher

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Can anyone shed some light on the Malcolm Mitchell 517? What do you get for your £95? or indeed £115 if you go the 2009 price...

Edited by Quarryscapes

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Can anyone shed some light on the Malcolm Mitchell 517? What do you get for your £95? or indeed £115 if you go the 2009 price...

£130 now, I emailed to ask a few months ago, though in the end I did something else instead.

There was an article by Guy Williams in MRJ 93 on building this kit, which gives a good idea of what it's like.

I wish I could afford this kit as well as the one I got, I hope to get one sometime..

Edited by johnarcher

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£130 now, I emailed to ask a few months ago, though in the end I did something else instead.

There was an article by Guy Williams in MRJ 93 on building this kit, which gives a good idea of what it's like.

I wish I could afford this kit as well as the one I got, I hope to get one sometime..

 

Cheers John, I'll hunt out that mag and have a look. 

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The 0850 saddle and pannier kits provide the type of bunker shown in the famous picture of 1923 in Russell. This type of bunker was in use during the pre-grouping period. There is no choice of bunker in the kit, despite the instructions.

 

The 1076 pannier kit contains a choice of bunker. Not sure about the saddle as I don't have it here with me.

 

Oakhill

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Can anyone shed some light on the Malcolm Mitchell 517? What do you get for your £95? or indeed £115 if you go the 2009 price...

I built the 3mm version of the kit, seen here:

post-26119-0-55382900-1462753031.jpg

 

Possibly the most difficult kit I've built in 3mm. As you'd expect with Mitchell it's a good kit, but the clearances are tight. I built it to 14.2mm gauge, and there wasn't enough width between the splasher inside faces to take the wheels, so I had to modify the splashers slightly. Even so the body had to be mounted dead right on the chassis to avoid wheel contact with the faces. The lack of room means the front axle has to be fixed, which leads to a slightly unusual compensation arrangement; the compensation beam is shaped like a toasting fork, with twin prongs bearing on the rear driving axle (thus giving room to stick a gearbox on that axle), while the fork "handle" bears on the axle of the pony truck. Again, in 3mm things were tight. Also, I reckon the body is a good 0.5mm too low and had to raise it.

 

The end result works, adequately, but it's not one of my better running models. I have a Collett 0-4-2, which is significantly bigger and doesn't have the clearance problems, so I was able to use my now standard method for 4-coupled engines, which is twin compensation beams on the drivers, so the pivot rod for the beams provides two "legs" for the "three-legged-stool" approach, while the third is a rod bearing down on the centre of the pony truck axle. This is nicely balanced and works better.

 

In 4mm the clearances may be better, depending on what gauge and wheels you use.

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I built the 3mm version of the kit, seen here:

attachicon.gifs101.jpg

 

Possibly the most difficult kit I've built in 3mm. As you'd expect with Mitchell it's a good kit, but the clearances are tight. I built it to 14.2mm gauge, and there wasn't enough width between the splasher inside faces to take the wheels, so I had to modify the splashers slightly. Even so the body had to be mounted dead right on the chassis to avoid wheel contact with the faces. The lack of room means the front axle has to be fixed, which leads to a slightly unusual compensation arrangement; the compensation beam is shaped like a toasting fork, with twin prongs bearing on the rear driving axle (thus giving room to stick a gearbox on that axle), while the fork "handle" bears on the axle of the pony truck. Again, in 3mm things were tight. Also, I reckon the body is a good 0.5mm too low and had to raise it.

 

The end result works, adequately, but it's not one of my better running models. I have a Collett 0-4-2, which is significantly bigger and doesn't have the clearance problems, so I was able to use my now standard method for 4-coupled engines, which is twin compensation beams on the drivers, so the pivot rod for the beams provides two "legs" for the "three-legged-stool" approach, while the third is a rod bearing down on the centre of the pony truck axle. This is nicely balanced and works better.

 

In 4mm the clearances may be better, depending on what gauge and wheels you use.

Did you see the article I mentioned above? IIRC he had the same clearance problems in 4mm (can't recall if EM or P4) and used the same sort of forked beam. I vaguely think that it was said that this arose because the kit was originally designed for 7mm and reduced for 4mm (and again I suppose for 3mm).

Still your one looks good.

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.... these really need Ultrascale wheels to look their best .... so the kit cost isn't the end of it!

 

You also need to add time to this - about seven months.

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Did you see the article I mentioned above? IIRC he had the same clearance problems in 4mm (can't recall if EM or P4) and used the same sort of forked beam. I vaguely think that it was said that this arose because the kit was originally designed for 7mm and reduced for 4mm (and again I suppose for 3mm).

Still your one looks good.

John, no haven't seen that article. The forked beam thing comes as part of the etching. If one's going to compensate it then it's probably the best way of doing it, given the fact that because of clearances it's difficult to avoid the front axle being fixed. Nigel

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