Volunteering

[Blandford1969]

Searching on the internet about the SVR I came accross a mothers and baby's group which had several cases where guards had been rude to them.

I remember a few years ago at cafe at Bridgnorth there was a young girl on the till.I personally found her polite, pleasant and she appeared to be hardworking but her old battle axe work colleague was absolutely horrible to her,she wouldn't leave her alone!

I went into the cafe a couple weeks later and she was still being horrid to this young girl whom look quite upset about it,understandable.

The next time I used the cafe the girl was no longer to be seen.All three occasions were on a Saturday and haven't been in there since.

The person you refer to was a paid employee who left several years ago. I was taught many years ago that there are always two sides to every story, if someone has been rude to a passenger and the person can identify the train the person concerned is spoken to and appropriate steps taken.

[phil-b259]

Well I never been called arrogant before but I sincerely apologise!

I personally don't like queue jumpers, everyone has value and something to offer.

It just seemed silly to me that a fabricator/welder was putting up a marque,OK he enjoyed it but wouldn't he be more useful elsewhere?

I would have thought that each heritage railway would have a comprehensive risk assessment for every task on the railway.

You have to take the rough with the smooth, unfortunately for me I haven't discovered the smooth yet.

Friction always seems to be a problem with us humans which is a shame, perhaps a few more positive vibes might help?

 

I didn't say you were arrogant - but thats how what you said could be interpreted. If you approach a Heritage railway with such sentiments you will put peoples backs up, which is not good for the railway or your ambitions.

 

The point about the Marque is that it was something that needed to be done and the poster had the physique that meant he could do it. That Marque could well bring in additional revenue - through increased catering sales as people have somewhere to gather out of the rain / sun, which in  turn helps pay for the steel needed to fabricate something.

 

There is also the little matter that quite a lot of people don't want to do exactly the same thing as a volunteer as they do in the 'day job'. As such its entirely possible that a specialist in one area may decide to volunteer by doing something different - and no railway is going to turn down a willing (and sensible) pair of hands because that person chooses not to exercise their specialism at the railway.

[AMJ]

You can have a laugh and a joke with the public but you shouldn't upset them. They will tell friends post onto Trip Advisor or Mums Net and that will deter many others.

 

Yesterday I joked with people saying oh I if you haven't got a ticket I'll have to throw you off my train. Most of the time I get passengers to clip their own tickets. A comment I have made which sounds bad is when I have got everyone to show me the tickets I ask does anyone want a punch? It's a bit like the joke about a DIY store and anyone want decking?

 

As a working member you point out the interesting features on the line, answering historical/technical questions and advising how frequent the service is.

 

Most railways talk about 10% of the members are working members at Middleton we are probably closer to 30%. Of the none-working members there are quite a few who give financial support and are valued as much as those of us who get stuck in.

[numpty]

The person you refer to was a paid employee who left several years ago. I was taught many years ago that there are always two sides to every story, if someone has been rude to a passenger and the person can identify the train the person concerned is spoken to and appropriate steps taken.

Yes there are two sides to an argument but sometimes arguments can be one sided.

The café incidents were clearly a case of blatant bullying and intimidation in the work place regardless of whatever the young girl had done or didn't do. Certainly shouldn't have happen in public view.

[numpty]

I didn't say you were arrogant - but thats how what you said could be interpreted. If you approach a Heritage railway with such sentiments you will put peoples backs up, which is not good for the railway or your ambitions.

 

The point about the Marque is that it was something that needed to be done and the poster had the physique that meant he could do it. That Marque could well bring in additional revenue - through increased catering sales as people have somewhere to gather out of the rain / sun, which in  turn helps pay for the steel needed to fabricate something.

 

There is also the little matter that quite a lot of people don't want to do exactly the same thing as a volunteer as they do in the 'day job'. As such its entirely possible that a specialist in one area may decide to volunteer by doing something different - and no railway is going to turn down a willing (and sensible) pair of hands because that person chooses not to exercise their specialism at the railway.

 

I agree with you a volunteer probably wants to do something entirely different at a weekend to what they do during the week. 

I don't know everything and I have a lot to learn, being a volunteer could teach me a great deal and improve the skills I have.

I never intended my initial post to be interpreted as being arrogant, I  apologies again.

[PhilH]

I remember a few years ago......?? Really? Honestly, I'm beginning to think you are looking for reasons not to volunteer... There's hundreds! Seriously, inany gathering of more than two in any walk of life you will, as I pointed out in an earlier post, meet nice people, stupid people, angry people, etc.,etc., the voluntary sector is no different.

 

Against that background I'm not sure of the value or point of highlighting the incident you did but anyway, back on topic, in your case it's simple...either take the plunge or don't. Endless discussion or agonising over it won't solve the issue, just turning up and doing it will. If you like great, if not, never mind, nothing lost.

 

If I could bottle the day I had today, a relief turn on the MHR, two trundles down to Alresford and back, just 12 miles driving, in between the most menial of tasks in emptying the ash from the pit road, great weather, great company, great laughs, and sell it then I'm sure people would be queueing up to volunteer.

[jjb1970]

I've never volunteered to work on a preserved railway and am not sure I ever would. However I have volunteered for other things and find it a very satisfying and fulfilling thing to do. To me the value comes from the aims and objectives of whatever it is you've volunteered to help and in some ways I'd really rather not utilise my professional skills as I spend enough time at work using them. I actually like just being another pair of willing hands and grunt. The only exception is a hospital ship which I'm happy to lend my skills to for the specific reason that certain jobs need somebody with the correct accreditation/competence and if people like me didn't volunteer our time it'd threaten the sips viability.

[Blandford1969]

Yes there are two sides to an argument but sometimes arguments can be one sided.

The café incidents were clearly a case of blatant bullying and intimidation in the work place regardless of whatever the young girl had done or didn't do. Certainly shouldn't have happen in public view.

I like others am confused by this thread, your posts and what you are actually trying to achieve. None of us were happy with what was going on about 3 or 4 years ago and the person went about then and we made our views known, however as we are covered by a social media policy we have to think about what we post in relation to matters that are sensitive, which this was.

 

You will like Phil says find people you get on with and others who are being blunt a pain. We have our good days with things going on and the frustrating hard days.

 

I hope you find something and somewhere you like

[rockershovel]

I agree with you a volunteer probably wants to do something entirely different at a weekend to what they do during the week. .

... which is contradicted by various posters, myself included, who appear to represent a fairly small constituency who regard themselves as having relevant skills which they are happy to offer, but aren't interested in painting or selling tickets (often because they went through that sort of process to acquire those skills, and don't wish to do it all again, especially the older ones)

 

Nor are they interested in being told, "we discount your skills in favour of someone who doesn't have them, but HAS been with us some time and will resent us recognising those skills". A lot of people with such skills are accustomed to working in a task-defined environment and are accustomed to such decisions.

 

It's just a different view

[Lady_Ava_Hay]

 

If I could bottle the day I had today, a relief turn on the MHR, two trundles down to Alresford and back, just 12 miles driving, in between the most menial of tasks in emptying the ash from the pit road, great weather, great company, great laughs, and sell it then I'm sure people would be queueing up to volunteer.

 

I am on the point of going for a driving experience day on the MHR. I am paying for the privelege. I am paying way over the odds to ensure that I get a full day under supervision so I can decide if I like doing it or not and thus volunteer to do the same on a  more regular basis. It is a joy to watch the MHR yielding to my desires and I am aware that the attraction of my contribution to the coffers has helped.

 

I have also volunteered to man the on train buffet on other days. I did that because it appealed and because I noticed that on at least one visit to the MHR the buffet was shut due to lack of staff.

 

I am a firm believer in trading skills that are in short supply to potentially gain a queue jump for those skills that aren't.

 

For Phil's benefit I will be Ava throughout wearing trousers ( albeit satin ) and safety boots ( albeit with pink leg warmers ) for the driving experience but lovely skirts and blouses for the buffet.

 

Let us hope that I like it and they like me. If we don't mesh then I have had my driving day and I can still buy tickets from time to time and pitch in in a signal box or something.

[numpty]

... which is contradicted by various posters, myself included, who appear to represent a fairly small constituency who regard themselves as having relevant skills which they are happy to offer, but aren't interested in painting or selling tickets (often because they went through that sort of process to acquire those skills, and don't wish to do it all again, especially the older ones)

 

Nor are they interested in being told, "we discount your skills in favour of someone who doesn't have them, but HAS been with us some time and will resent us recognising those skills". A lot of people with such skills are accustomed to working in a task-defined environment and are accustomed to such decisions.

 

It's just a different view

 

 

I was only agreeing with Phils quote that I quoted.

It is understanable that some volunteers won’t want to do work that they do in the week or have done in the past, that’s down to the individual.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[numpty]

I like others am confused by this thread, your posts and what you are actually trying to achieve. None of us were happy with what was going on about 3 or 4 years ago and the person went about then and we made our views known, however as we are covered by a social media policy we have to think about what we post in relation to matters that are sensitive, which this was.

 

You will like Phil says find people you get on with and others who are being blunt a pain. We have our good days with things going on and the frustrating hard days.

 

I hope you find something and somewhere you like

 

 

 

 

I known it was only forum banter between guard and train driver (see previous posts) but as someone said in an earlier post you have to be professional whether you’re paid staff or a volunteer. A sense of humour and a bit of banter helps the day pass by but when there’s public around you have to be conscious of what you say and do as someone might take offence.

 

I mentioned the cafe incident, as being a member of public thinking about volunteering on a heritage railway because I should have not witnessed it.

 

Yes we all have our off moments or days but you can’t take it out on the paying public or take out your frustrations in front of them.

 

The aim of this thread was to find out a little bit more about becoming a volunteer to help my decision making. In a way it’s achieved its purpose and I did expect some positives as well as negatives but not about the thread itself.

I hope that’s not too confusing?

[Nicholas]

I have just read this thread with some interest. For a number of years I visited a heritage railway whilst on holiday and often thought 'if ever I live near there I would love to volunteer there'. Well as chance would happen in January this year that dream happened and duly I applied to volunteer with said railway. I could not have received a more friendly and welcoming response (bearing in mind my skills as a retired senior ambulance officer were as much use as a chocolate teapot to them).

Duly I started on the station maintenance gang and have now become a porter in the ops department (also having done the PTS). The opportunities seem high to progress in quite a few areas. Within a short period of time to be called by ones first name by the General Manager and a lot of other staff members shows how friendly it is. 

I absolutely love my time there and heartily recommend it to anyone contemplating such a move. Do come and visit the Isle of Wight Steam Railway-you will NOT be disappointed!

[roythebus]

Yes, it's a lovely railway with lots of nice people. i've got my 45 years volunteering certificate from them a couple of years ago; it isn't much but nice to know that the little I've done over the years was appreciated.

 

 

I have just read this thread with some interest. For a number of years I visited a heritage railway whilst on holiday and often thought 'if ever I live near there I would love to volunteer there'. Well as chance would happen in January this year that dream happened and duly I applied to volunteer with said railway. I could not have received a more friendly and welcoming response (bearing in mind my skills as a retired senior ambulance officer were as much use as a chocolate teapot to them).

Duly I started on the station maintenance gang and have now become a porter in the ops department (also having done the PTS). The opportunities seem high to progress in quite a few areas. Within a short period of time to be called by ones first name by the General Manager and a lot of other staff members shows how friendly it is. 

I absolutely love my time there and heartily recommend it to anyone contemplating such a move. Do come and visit the Isle of Wight Steam Railway-you will NOT be disappointed!

 a lovely

[roythebus]

I've just done a day as chef-d'train/serra-frien (guard/brakeman) on the Belgian line that I belong to, it's a lovely rural tramway, but what concerns me is the apparent total lack of a rule book, working practices or any acknowledgment of health and safety, as much as we hate such things in the UK.

 

With an automoteur (4wheel diesel railcar/loco) and an open toastrack coach as the train, we went along the line and were warned there was a wagon left from the week's engineering works. We found it and coupled it on the front of the loco, pushed it to the next station to run round and put it on the back or in the loop. The driver didn't have his point key and I've never been issued with one. As luck had it the points at the other end of the loop were unlocked, so we pushed the wagon out of the station, let the train back in the loop, and let the wagon roll by gravity into the siding! The passengers, most dutch, thought it highly amusing, especially when I said we were waiting for the cowboys to turn up!

 

Later, back at the other end, we had to propel the train back to the depot one station along the line, about 500m. I rode on the front balcony using hand signals to the driver, all ok. BUT, is it allowed by the non-existant rule book? When we arrived at the depot a very senior official was there and gave me a "chat" about not wearing a hi-vis even though he wasn't wearing one when walking around the track; he also said we must use radios for such moves, but nobody has ever told me how to use one or where they're kept. So, shunted the first coach into a siding, dropped the goods van into another siding, then moved to another siding.

 

So we had shed door with 1 coach outside attached to loco which was inside the shed. UK rules are very clear about such movements, sound whistle before moving, people not to stand within 20m of stationary vehicles, and must wear hi-vis. As I got on the loco, the driver started moving, but I noticed 2 people in front of the wagon..STOP,STOP, ARRET,ARRET. He'd only got about 30cm and stopped. I was then taken aside by said high ranking official who more of less accused me of trying to run him over!! 

 

Pot, kettle, black as we would say; no hi-vis, standing directly in front of a train that was very likely to move, driver moving without checking to see if the line is clear..harumph. The main thing the High Ranking Official was concerned about was my lack of use of the French language. Everyone there knows I am English and am learning French, so they speak to me in English, no problem, as long as we come to a clear understanding. There's little or no training given for the lower jobs such as brake man, no PTS, no rule book, quite how they get away with it is beyond me. I understand they lost 3 drivers a few years ago over safety concerns, and are always short of volunteers. If the High Up Official talks to people in that way, I'm not surprised they have trouble keeping people.

 

Probably the good thing about the High Ranking Official is that he negotiated several millions of euros to finance the extension of the railway over the last couple of years. As we travel over 300 miles each way to get there, I would expect a bit more politeness from someone high up. The guys who do the work are a great bunch of people, totally dedicated to what they're doing.

[AMJ]

The key phrase that applies to all railways etc as per Roy is "a clear understanding".  We have a comment that even none train crew can shout stop, and or give the stop signal to a driver and no one can fault you if things are being done safely.

 

Today I saw the loco set light to some rubbish whilst running round so I got my red flag out to stop him.  Fortunately the driver had seen the minor fire, stopped and put it out.

 

We have been told that you will not get a grilling if you have stopped something happen only if a problem happens.

 

Best to be safe rather than sorry.

[The Stationmaster]

I've just done a day as chef-d'train/serra-frien (guard/brakeman) on the Belgian line that I belong to, it's a lovely rural tramway, but what concerns me is the apparent total lack of a rule book, working practices or any acknowledgment of health and safety, as much as we hate such things in the UK.

 

With an automoteur (4wheel diesel railcar/loco) and an open toastrack coach as the train, we went along the line and were warned there was a wagon left from the week's engineering works. We found it and coupled it on the front of the loco, pushed it to the next station to run round and put it on the back or in the loop. The driver didn't have his point key and I've never been issued with one. As luck had it the points at the other end of the loop were unlocked, so we pushed the wagon out of the station, let the train back in the loop, and let the wagon roll by gravity into the siding! The passengers, most dutch, thought it highly amusing, especially when I said we were waiting for the cowboys to turn up!

 

Later, back at the other end, we had to propel the train back to the depot one station along the line, about 500m. I rode on the front balcony using hand signals to the driver, all ok. BUT, is it allowed by the non-existant rule book? When we arrived at the depot a very senior official was there and gave me a "chat" about not wearing a hi-vis even though he wasn't wearing one when walking around the track; he also said we must use radios for such moves, but nobody has ever told me how to use one or where they're kept. So, shunted the first coach into a siding, dropped the goods van into another siding, then moved to another siding.

 

So we had shed door with 1 coach outside attached to loco which was inside the shed. UK rules are very clear about such movements, sound whistle before moving, people not to stand within 20m of stationary vehicles, and must wear hi-vis. As I got on the loco, the driver started moving, but I noticed 2 people in front of the wagon..STOP,STOP, ARRET,ARRET. He'd only got about 30cm and stopped. I was then taken aside by said high ranking official who more of less accused me of trying to run him over!! 

 

Pot, kettle, black as we would say; no hi-vis, standing directly in front of a train that was very likely to move, driver moving without checking to see if the line is clear..harumph. The main thing the High Ranking Official was concerned about was my lack of use of the French language. Everyone there knows I am English and am learning French, so they speak to me in English, no problem, as long as we come to a clear understanding. There's little or no training given for the lower jobs such as brake man, no PTS, no rule book, quite how they get away with it is beyond me. I understand they lost 3 drivers a few years ago over safety concerns, and are always short of volunteers. If the High Up Official talks to people in that way, I'm not surprised they have trouble keeping people.

 

Probably the good thing about the High Ranking Official is that he negotiated several millions of euros to finance the extension of the railway over the last couple of years. As we travel over 300 miles each way to get there, I would expect a bit more politeness from someone high up. The guys who do the work are a great bunch of people, totally dedicated to what they're doing.

 

Hmm - one wonders where this line is in order that we might extend our lives by avoiding it!  Clearly the HRO has a very big opinion of himself (and possibly a large life insurance policy as well?) but it really does sound like something of a shower but a shower run by some folk who seem to care and are doing things in spite of HRO (and he is carrying on despite EU legislation it would seem ).

 

If you enjoy it then carry out but I think I would be in cherchez le Rule Book mode.

[PhilH]

I've just done a day as chef-d'train/serra-frien (guard/brakeman) on the Belgian line that I belong to, it's a lovely rural tramway, but what concerns me is the apparent total lack of a rule book, working practices or any acknowledgment of health and safety, as much as we hate such things in the UK.

 

With an automoteur (4wheel diesel railcar/loco) and an open toastrack coach as the train, we went along the line and were warned there was a wagon left from the week's engineering works. We found it and coupled it on the front of the loco, pushed it to the next station to run round and put it on the back or in the loop. The driver didn't have his point key and I've never been issued with one. As luck had it the points at the other end of the loop were unlocked, so we pushed the wagon out of the station, let the train back in the loop, and let the wagon roll by gravity into the siding! The passengers, most dutch, thought it highly amusing, especially when I said we were waiting for the cowboys to turn up!

 

Later, back at the other end, we had to propel the train back to the depot one station along the line, about 500m. I rode on the front balcony using hand signals to the driver, all ok. BUT, is it allowed by the non-existant rule book? When we arrived at the depot a very senior official was there and gave me a "chat" about not wearing a hi-vis even though he wasn't wearing one when walking around the track; he also said we must use radios for such moves, but nobody has ever told me how to use one or where they're kept. So, shunted the first coach into a siding, dropped the goods van into another siding, then moved to another siding.

 

So we had shed door with 1 coach outside attached to loco which was inside the shed. UK rules are very clear about such movements, sound whistle before moving, people not to stand within 20m of stationary vehicles, and must wear hi-vis. As I got on the loco, the driver started moving, but I noticed 2 people in front of the wagon..STOP,STOP, ARRET,ARRET. He'd only got about 30cm and stopped. I was then taken aside by said high ranking official who more of less accused me of trying to run him over!!

 

Pot, kettle, black as we would say; no hi-vis, standing directly in front of a train that was very likely to move, driver moving without checking to see if the line is clear..harumph. The main thing the High Ranking Official was concerned about was my lack of use of the French language. Everyone there knows I am English and am learning French, so they speak to me in English, no problem, as long as we come to a clear understanding. There's little or no training given for the lower jobs such as brake man, no PTS, no rule book, quite how they get away with it is beyond me. I understand they lost 3 drivers a few years ago over safety concerns, and are always short of volunteers. If the High Up Official talks to people in that way, I'm not surprised they have trouble keeping people.

 

Probably the good thing about the High Ranking Official is that he negotiated several millions of euros to finance the extension of the railway over the last couple of years. As we travel over 300 miles each way to get there, I would expect a bit more politeness from someone high up. The guys who do the work are a great bunch of people, totally dedicated to what they're doing.

I would have thought that if you carry on working on this railway then you are tacitly agreeing to work in this way, despite your misgivings.

 

All well and good until something goes wrong...it would seem to me if you are involved in any incident then, given your agreement to carry on working there, you could be deemed as culpable as the hierarchy who run the organisation in such a cavalier way?

[rockershovel]

From considerable experience of European construction vessels and personnel, I'm not much surprised by this. I discovered long ago that the British obsession with HSE often doesn't survive the Channel crossing, or the ferry to Ostend. I don't say this is a good thing, simply that it is frequently observed.

 

Nor am I greatly surprised by the account of official rudeness and self-importance in the Francophone world. Orwell's classic account of visiting a Parisian pawnbroker in the 1930s seems to be very much still with us. I speak quite fluent French and sometimes work for Total, but I never much care to have French colleagues on a project. Same goes for the Low Countries; there are various "issues" between the various sorts of Dutch and Belgian, which become intrusive when you are amongst them and are of no interest when you are neither.

[roythebus]

It turns out the HRO on this line is the boss of a transport undertaking that unwittingly transported alleged terrorists to an alleged very serious offence in Brussels recently, hence his change in attitude to railway staff. One could say he has been, as Queen and David Bowie sang, Under Pressure.

 

But, to agree with the above, there seems to be a very cavalier attitude to anything safety related once we depart our shores. I read recently of an accident on a similar railway in the same area a few years back when a train ran away and a number of people were killed. Maybe a copy should be sent to the railway I was at, but I suspect they know it already.

Hmm - one wonders where this line is in order that we might extend our lives by avoiding it!  Clearly the HRO has a very big opinion of himself (and possibly a large life insurance policy as well?) but it really does sound like something of a shower but a shower run by some folk who seem to care and are doing things in spite of HRO (and he is carrying on despite EU legislation it would seem ).

 

If you enjoy it then carry out but I think I would be in cherchez le Rule Book mode.

What rule book? there doesn't appear to be one!

[rockershovel]

I'm a bit concerned by the expression "much as we hate such things in the UK". I don't believe that's a common attitude among the dwindling number who actually work with plant and machinery, or in proximity to dangerous materials or processes.

[Zomboid]

I'm a bit concerned by the expression "much as we hate such things in the UK". I don't believe that's a common attitude among the dwindling number who actually work with plant and machinery, or in proximity to dangerous materials or processes.

"Health and Safety" is often used as an excuse because doing something properly requires effort, which people are either too lazy to put on our don't have the time for.

[Lady_Ava_Hay]

I would have thought that if you carry on working on this railway then you are tacitly agreeing to work in this way, despite your misgivings.

 

All well and good until something goes wrong...it would seem to me if you are involved in any incident then, given your agreement to carry on working there, you could be deemed as culpable as the hierarchy who run the organisation in such a cavalier way?

 

Not too sure about Belgium or indeed voluntary unpaid labour but I am pretty sure that Health and Safety in this country is a legal issue for the employer and the employee has a right to know that, as long as he is properly instructed, he is not putting himself or anyone else, in harms way by doing his job.

 

Again AFAIK it is the employer's responsibility to instruct their employees and obtain a signature to that effect. From that point, the employee shares the responsibility but only as far as his instructions and the employer is required to do a risk assessment on every task that falls even slightly outside of the norm which again needs to be defined in writing.

[rockershovel]

I don't believe the law has anything to say on whether a task or activity is paid or voluntary.

 

It simply says that due care shall be exercised and that varying degrees of responsibility fall upon all concerned.

[The Stationmaster]

Not too sure about Belgium or indeed voluntary unpaid labour but I am pretty sure that Health and Safety in this country is a legal issue for the employer and the employee has a right to know that, as long as he is properly instructed, he is not putting himself or anyone else, in harms way by doing his job.

 

Again AFAIK it is the employer's responsibility to instruct their employees and obtain a signature to that effect. From that point, the employee shares the responsibility but only as far as his instructions and the employer is required to do a risk assessment on every task that falls even slightly outside of the norm which again needs to be defined in writing.

 

It goes farther than that and is rather more complex.  All of the leisure/heritage railways are subject to ROGS plus various other legoslation running through various acronyms such as CDM, RIDDOR and HASAWA.  ROGS is the key one which requires them to have in place an SMS (Safety Management System) which has to take all the relevant legislation into account  plus railway operational safety (the Rule Book etc) plus statutory reporting responsibilities and so on - in al  of taht the H&S Act occupies a relatively small part bit Certain of its requirements have to be met.

 

In the whole it doesn't matter if the people undertaking duties are employees or volunteers as far as ROGS is concerned (there is a legal nicety where the H&S Act is concerned but basically it can be ignored because ROGS takes primacy and referencing in the [few] relevant parts of the H&S act is simple compared with some of the other stuff).

 

As ROGS basically reflects EU legislation there should be a similar procedure in Belgium but it could well differ considerably at the detail level and there are some differences of view about interpretation of it even in Britain.