Help with C&L 7mm components?

[MarshLane]

Hi everyone,

I'm about to start work on a new 7mm (0-MF) depot layout, phase one of a bigger project.  Having designed the track layout in Templot, i'm going to have a go at building the trackwork myself - a first for me!  My plan is to build the depot first, giving me a layout to run and a change to practise trackwork building, before starting on the larger project.

 

I understand the Templot templates can be printed and will act as the template onto which the point can be built.  But I'm getting confused by the variety of options on the C&L website.  My thought to start with is to purchase the 'Vs' for points until I am a bit happier with building them myself.  But what else is needed?  Obviously the rails (which I'm thinking will be Nickel Silver), sleepers (plastic), and chairs.  But i think there are plain line chairs and slide chairs for where the point blades slide?  

 

Also, when your building your own track, what happens with rail joiners - do you use them?  I can see plastic fishplates, so I'm guessing they are used to maintain the alignment, and separate power feeds are fed to each section of rail from the DCC/DC bus?

 

But then there seems to be two different types of track gauges - which one has the right dimensions for 0-MF?

 

Sorry for so many questions - i've read quite a few of the track building topics on here, but just seem to be confusing myself at the moment, so any help or suggestions would be gratefully appreciated.

 

Cheers

Rich

[martin_wynne]

But then there seems to be two different types of track gauges - which one has the right dimensions for 0-MF?

 

Hi Rich,

 

0-MF gauges are not available from C&L.

 

They are available from Debs on here: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/81243-7-mm-gauge-which-one/&do=findComment&comment=1310860

 

and also I believe from Roxey Mouldings (but not listed on their site): http://roxeymouldings.co.uk

 

No doubt Hayfield (John) will be along to explain about which are the best chairs and sleeper thicknesses to use.

 

regards,

 

Martin.

[ROSSPOP]

  High Rich,

 

Hopefully this link will get you to my C&L trackwork stuff.  DCC BUS, Wire droppers etc.  Mine is to 32mm FS.  I used their complete kit in a bag.  Not suer they do plastic sleepers at least they were out of stock last time I looked.  Two types of chairs in ABS, selection of 2,3, and 4 bolt common rail chairs and slide chairs for the point blade end, the rest you chop and splice the common ones as you need them.  I dont rely on plastic fish plates to align rail ends they are purely cosmetic, I would use the etched folding type and solder , but don`t use them for electrical contact.

 

Never used Templot so can`t help with that.

 

Hope it helps.   If not ask away.......

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/139721082@N05/albums/72157664036460546

 

 

And this is it all in action........

 

 

[MarshLane]

Hi Rich,

 

0-MF gauges are not available from C&L.

 

They are available from Debs on here: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/81243-7-mm-gauge-which-one/&do=findComment&comment=1310860

 

regards,

 

Martin.

 

 

Hi Martin,

Yes i've spoken with Debs, but she is out of stock, and won't have another batch in for a while, and at the moment cant say when there will be some available.  Are there any others available?

 

Regards

Richard

[MarshLane]

  High Rich,

 

Hopefully this link will get you to my C&L trackwork stuff.  DCC BUS, Wire droppers etc.  Mine is to 32mm FS.  I used their complete kit in a bag.  Not suer they do plastic sleepers at least they were out of stock last time I looked.  Two types of chairs in ABS, selection of 2,3, and 4 bolt common rail chairs and slide chairs for the point blade end, the rest you chop and splice the common ones as you need them.  I dont rely on plastic fish plates to align rail ends they are purely cosmetic, I would use the etched folding type and solder , but don`t use them for electrical contact.

 

Never used Templot so can`t help with that.

 

Ross,

Thanks for that, very interesting.  What are the connectors that your using to link wires together?  They look a lot tidier and more robust than covering adjoining wires in electrical tape!  Is all your track C&L or is some peco?

 

I'd assumed that the servo's I'm planning on using for operating points would have been positioned directly under the tie-bars, but looking your images, have you connected scaled cranks and rodding to the tie-bars and then connected them to the servos?

 

Rich

[martin_wynne]

Yes i've spoken with Debs, but she is out of stock, and won't have another batch in for a while, and at the moment cant say when there will be some available.  Are there any others available?

 

Hi Rich,

 

Unfortunately the Gauge 0 Guild have been dragging their feet for years on this, so no mainstream supplier has jumped on board.

 

You could try a classified wanted ad for Debs gauges.

 

I believe Roxey Mouldings can supply etched 0-MF track gauges, although I have never seen them (or even a picture of them). It would be worth giving them a ring.

 

regards,

 

Martin.

[MarshLane]

I believe Roxey Mouldings can supply etched 0-MF track gauges, although I have never seen them (or even a picture of them). It would be worth giving them a ring.

 

Thanks Martin,

Yes they do - they do 31.5 and 31.75mm versions both £4.50 for two.  Any idea which ones I need - or is one for straight track and one for curved?

 

Rich

[ROSSPOP]

High again Rich,

 

The clips are called Tap Splices or suitcase clips.   DO NOT BUY CHEAP !!! if you decide to use them.   These are from Farnell UK website is excellent.

 

The wiring is from EXPRESSMODELS who also produce  Non-soldering DCC Bus wire Kits. You can buy the wiring seperately. Their tap splices are fine. But I prefer the Farnell type as they are double bladed.

 

I would never ever consider using Peco track.

 

The point motors are Fulgorex and are connected via angle cranks above and below baseboard using simple brass omega loops.  1960`s technology by Reverend Peter Denny.

 

John 

[martin_wynne]

Yes they do - they do 31.5 and 31.75mm versions both £4.50 for two.  Any idea which ones I need - or is one for straight track and one for curved?

 

Hi Rich,

 

The 31.5mm gauge is for straight and gently curved track. The flangeways should be 1.5mm.

 

I assume that the 31.75mm gauge is intended to provide some gauge-widening for sharply curved track. As your track plan includes some sharp curves I would think you would need this gauge too, although a lot depends on which wheels you will be using and the type of rolling stock. However, it is important that the check gauge element of the gauge remains at 30.0mm -- in other words the check rail gap is increased to 1.75mm on that side. But not the crossing flangeway gap which remains at 1.5mm.

 

As I have never seen these gauges or a picture of them, let alone a drawing, I have no way of knowing whether the 31.75mm gauge meets these requirements. You need to clarify this with Roxey Mouldings.

 

Given the complexity of your intended track plan, I would strongly recommend that you try building a small test layout first, if you are new to all this.

 

regards,

 

Martin.

[MarshLane]

Given the complexity of your intended track plan, I would strongly recommend that you try building a small test layout first, if you are new to all this.

 

My thoughts entirely  Thats i'm building the depot as a stand alone first, that can be accommodated in the bigger layout subsequently!

 

Thanks - as ever - for the info.  I think I'm getting there slowly.

 

Rich

[MarshLane]

The point motors are Fulgorex and are connected via angle cranks above and below baseboard using simple brass omega loops. 1960`s technology by Reverend Peter Denny.

Thanks John. No offence intended about the Peco comment. Where can those cranks and the like be obtained fro?

 

Regards

Rich

[ROSSPOP]

Hi Rich,

 

I researched for 7mm angle crank producers, and the vast majority were overscaled rubbish.

 

I settled for :-

 

  C&L   7PR102A   Standard Cranks.   Each set includes the bearing plates and cleats that I used.

 

  GEM (4mm  wire in tube stuff fame ). Angle Cranks.  and   Omega Loops.    Available through ANTICS ON-LINE.

 

  14 BA  Nuts and Bolts   plus brass rod and tube to your own requirements from  Eileens Emporium.

   

  Then a pleasant afternoon fettling away at the kitchen table...............

 

  John

[MarshLane]

Thanks John,

That's useful into.

 

Rich

[Donw]

The best method for electrical connection is for every piece of rail to have at least one dropper wire (soldered to the underside looks best) these are generally taken through the baseboard and connected as required under the baseboard.

If you make tour own crossings printing an extra copy from Templot you can build the crossing on one keeping a clean copy to assemble the turnout on. That way the crossing will match the template.

Although expensive Tortoise turnout motors are very simple to set up the stall action means only a rough adjustment is required. The also incorporate the contacts needed for switching the crossing polarity.

 

Don

[MarshLane]

Hi Don,

Many thanks - sorry for the delayed reply. That sounds a sensible and logical idea. Run a bus beneath the boards and have feeder wires onto each piece of track. I'm thinking two or three per length then if anything becomes unsoldered its unlikely to stop running.

 

Rich

[hayfield]

Hi everyone,

I'm about to start work on a new 7mm (0-MF) depot layout, phase one of a bigger project.  Having designed the track layout in Templot, i'm going to have a go at building the trackwork myself - a first for me!  My plan is to build the depot first, giving me a layout to run and a change to practise trackwork building, before starting on the larger project.

 

I understand the Templot templates can be printed and will act as the template onto which the point can be built.  But I'm getting confused by the variety of options on the C&L website.  My thought to start with is to purchase the 'Vs' for points until I am a bit happier with building them myself.  But what else is needed?  Obviously the rails (which I'm thinking will be Nickel Silver), sleepers (plastic), and chairs.  But i think there are plain line chairs and slide chairs for where the point blades slide?  

 

Also, when your building your own track, what happens with rail joiners - do you use them?  I can see plastic fishplates, so I'm guessing they are used to maintain the alignment, and separate power feeds are fed to each section of rail from the DCC/DC bus?

 

But then there seems to be two different types of track gauges - which one has the right dimensions for 0-MF?

 

Sorry for so many questions - i've read quite a few of the track building topics on here, but just seem to be confusing myself at the moment, so any help or suggestions would be gratefully appreciated.

 

Cheers

Rich

 

 

Rich

 

Sorry for the late reply but a house move has got in the way. 7 mm is not my strong point in what is available

 

Chairs between the C&L and Exactoscale brands you have standard chairs (2,3 &4 bolt) slide chairs and bridge chairs, Exactoscale do fantastic functional plastic fishplates

 

On Shapeways there are a series of special chairs including check rail chairs, common crossing chairs and some others, most of which are LNER biased. Also a variety of standards

 

C&L do a variety of both plastic and ply Timbers and sleepers, plastic to plastic is the strongest bond, though plastic to ply with Butanone solvent is quite strong and widely used

 

As for pre-made common crossings They may be only available in 1.75 mm flangeways, though I could be wrong.

 

Nickelsilver does not rust/tarnish as quickly as steel and C&L HiNi is not as yellow as other brands

[MarshLane]

Hi John,

Thanks for the info and the feedback.  My plan was to go for C&L, but reading several of the track-laying threads on rmWeb, it looks like some chairs are only available through Exactoscale?  I'll take a look at the Shapeways items, these are 3D printed versions?  The layout is going to set in the North East, so LNER-biase doesn't cause any issues!!  You comment about 1.75mm flangeways on the pre-made crossings, I presume that based on the GOG standards rather than 0-MF?  Having read several threads though, I'm starting to think that my concerns about making the 'V' crossings are not as major as i think, so might be tempted to give it a go, making them myself.

 

Does anyone have a view on whether plastic or wooden sleepers are better?  I take John's comments onboard about plastic to plastic is the strongest bond, but was thinking that maybe wooden sleepers would give a better representation? Id welcome the views of anyone who has built either?

 

Thanks

Rich

[hayfield]

Rich

 

Re the timbers, ply looks best if stained and not covered in thick paint, well painted plastic timbers do look very good though

 

You could buy or solder up the Vees and use the Shapeways chairs functionally, though you could do the same with cut down/adapted C&L / Exactoscale chairs

 

C&L & Exactoscale are now really one and the same as far as supply is concerned, I prefer Exactoscale parts as the moulds are newer with the mouldings a bit crisper

 

I have not seen the Shapeways items, have been meaning to buy some for evaluation though, just undecided which to buy first and how the payment system works

[Donw]

Wood sleepers work fine although something stronger is preferable at Baseboard joints (I favour a brass screw under the rail soldered then painted black before ballasting).

Making crossings is not hard.

 

You may find this page on my thread helpful  http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/79053-cambrian-and-gwr-0-gauge-loft-layout-a-slight-diversion/page-15

Don

[ROSSPOP]

Whatever you decide Rich , wwod.....ply.......plastic.................... study pictures if you can of the period you are modelling and how the track looks ........ and please don`t do what  many modellers in 7mm seem to do........  go and  use ` aquarium gravel ` as the ballast, which ,to me, then negates al lthe time spent worrying about what the sleepers look like.............

 

My other pet hate is badly painted rail whereby the paint chips off the top edge of  said rail......

 

 

john

[MarshLane]

Hayfield: Thanks for the advice. I'm hoping to acquire the various items to try some straight track for my shed building first, then a point, at Doncaster, so i'll bear all that in mind.

 

Don: Thanks for the link to your thread, i'll have a study and inwardly digest all of that.  Cheers!  I like your idea of a brass screw soldered to the rail and painted black on the edge of the baseboard.  Do you feel that solder beats something like araldite or superglue for that purpose?

 

John: Yes, couldn't agree more!  I think a lot of this is subjective to the individual, but I would agree with your comments.  I've attached a picture of what I'm aiming to copy.  This is Peco metre-length trackwork on my ballasted test bed - really just to test out ways of doing things.  This uses Carrs light and dark grey ballast mixed loosely, then covered with watered down PVA. It was then sprayed (track and sleepers) with Railmatch sleeper grime (i think), before the sleepers were covered and the rail sides over sprayed at a 45degree angle with Railmatch rust.  Please excuse the dirt on the rail head, its been a few weeks since this has been run/cleaned!  Overall i think its worked quite well - but as ever, would welcome any comments or suggestions for improvements.

 

Rich

 

 

[MarshLane]

Not sure if anyone can throw any light on the this query (Martin??) but having enquired with Debs about 0-MF track gauges, I'm told they should shortly be back in stock. Now Debs has kindly provided me with a list of whats available:

 

0-MF Brass roller gauge 31.5mm. x 1.5mm. (with a large area of milled chord flat on one end)

0-MF Brass adjoining line separation gauge (producing convenient 6ft., 7ft. &10ft parallels) 

0-MF Polished and gauged, stainless steel 1.5mm. slip gauges

0-MF+ Brass roller gauge, for gauge-widened stretches of tight radius track-formations; G.W to 31.75mm. forming a 1.5mm. flangeway slot at one end, a 1.75mm. check-rail slot at the other and milled at both ends with chord-flats

 

But I'm a little lost with what everything is.  Im assuming the first one is the key for track building, and the second is there to position adjacent lines etc...  But what are slip gauges?  Also are the 0-MF+ gauges required for what I'm doing (straight track and pointwork) or are they for more specialist curves and tighter radius?

 

HHEEELLLPP!!

 

Rich

[Stephen Freeman]

Not sure if anyone can throw any light on the this query (Martin??) but having enquired with Debs about 0-MF track gauges, I'm told they should shortly be back in stock. Now Debs has kindly provided me with a list of whats available:

 

0-MF Brass roller gauge 31.5mm. x 1.5mm. (with a large area of milled chord flat on one end)

0-MF Brass adjoining line separation gauge (producing convenient 6ft., 7ft. &10ft parallels) 

0-MF Polished and gauged, stainless steel 1.5mm. slip gauges

0-MF+ Brass roller gauge, for gauge-widened stretches of tight radius track-formations; G.W to 31.75mm. forming a 1.5mm. flangeway slot at one end, a 1.75mm. check-rail slot at the other and milled at both ends with chord-flats

 

But I'm a little lost with what everything is.  Im assuming the first one is the key for track building, and the second is there to position adjacent lines etc...  But what are slip gauges?  Also are the 0-MF+ gauges required for what I'm doing (straight track and pointwork) or are they for more specialist curves and tighter radius?

 

HHEEELLLPP!!

 

Rich

Hi,

0-MF+ is as Martin suggests for gauge widening on curves

0-MF Brass adjoining line separation gauge (producing convenient 6ft., 7ft. &10ft parallels) is useful for parallel tracks etc

0-MF Brass roller gauge 31.5mm. x 1.5mm. (with a large area of milled chord flat on one end) is for plain track and turnouts the milled chord is necessary at the common crossing, otherwise you won't get it to fit on the rail. Peco knew this years ago with their rollagauges.

1.5 Slip gauge for setting the crossing wing rails, though you could also just use a piece of rail, which is of the same width.

 

C&L do some lost wax castings for fishplates but this would work out a tad expensive, use the etched ones but don't rely on them for electrical conductivity. The Exactoscale insulated fishplates are to be preferred over the C&L ones.

 

As for chairs, you don't say which railway practice but will assume 3 bolt - Exactoscale look better but there is a question over the fit on the rail, a subject discussed elsewhere on the Handbuilt forum. Having only used the C&L ones I cannot comment on this.

 

Vees are pretty easy to make - worth joining Templot Club to see if only how to see how Martin says to do it - works for me.

 

C&L do or at least used to do some lost wax castings of chairs which could be used at baseboard joints for strength soldered to a plate/sleeper.

[MarshLane]

Stephen,

Thanks for your detailed response - much appreciated. The mist, as they say, is starting to clear!  That all actually made sense to me!!

 

Im working on LNER/NER practice, so I believe this three bolt chairs.  I am a member of Templet Club - Martin has been incredibly kind in helping with my Templot design (or should that be disaster!) - could you point me towards the thread on there about making vees please?

 

I'm really starting to look forward to having a bash, i mean a go, at this!

 

Thanks again.

Rich

[Stephen Freeman]

Hi,

 

Gosh it's a while since I read his post about that, might also be on the Handbuilt & Templot Forum thread here. Basically you take a piece of rail and bend one end to follow the turnout rail and remove part of the rail so that it is now straight with a pointy bit at the end. Repeat for the other rail.

Now depending on which hand the turnout is, dictates which part of the vee is going to form the point of the vee (this should be a blunt end not sharp). Martins explanation comes with a useful diagram.

 

I always find it easier to build the vee en situ rather than try and build it separately and then use it. I use the thin copperclad strip C&L sell for this purpose, superglued to your timber of choice be it timber or ABS and solder the vee rails to that, the copperclad needs to be slightly over-length of the wing rails as you'll want to solder them too. The reason for doing this is that you don't want any part of the common crossing to move out of alignment, which could happen just using chairs alone. You can trim back afterwards and add cosmetic half-chairs.

 

Once I've got the vee to my satisfaction, I then build outwards from that, the last rails to go on apart from the check rails are the stock rails.

 

Don't forget that if you are modelling 3 bolt chaired track the check rail chairs should be 4 bolt as are those at the common crossing.