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john new

York Show 2017

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Reason for the early post is to give the latest news on the situation re the consultation process for the No 11 bus route and the 2017 Show. (Sun & Mon)

 

My personal response to YCC (their's to me below)

 

Having read the summary of responses I am dismayed to see that the point raised regarding visitors attending non-horse related events at the major venue of the Racecourse is omitted.

 

Smacks of decision made with no intention of amendment irrespective of what bus users might comment!

 

John New - Transport historian/photographer/writer - Twitter = @john_jnew

& Stephenson Locomotive Society Promotions Officer  - Twitter = @stephenson_loco & #stephenson_loco

 

From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Friday, May 13, 2016 4:13 PM

Subject: Consultation- supported bus services

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

Thank you for responding to our consultation on changes to council-supported bus services. Responses to the consultation have been used to inform a report by the council’s Director for City and Environmental services.

 

The report has been called in for scrutiny by the council’s Economic Development and Transport Policy Scrutiny Committee. As a result, the Executive Member Decision Session, previously scheduled for Thursday 19th May, will now take place on Thursday 2nd June.

 

Further information on these meetings, including the report, can be found on the City of York Council website:

 

  • Economic Development and Transport Policy and Scrutiny Committee (Pre Decision Calling In) - Wednesday 18th May

http://democracy.york.gov.uk/ieListDocuments.aspx?CId=894&MId=9696&Ver=4

 

  • Decision Session - Executive Member for Transport and Planning - Thursday 2nd June

http://democracy.york.gov.uk/ieListDocuments.aspx?CId=738&MId=9689&Ver=4

 

Regards,

 

The Transport Department

City of York Council

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The future of subsidised bus services in York is under great scrutiny, as it is in virtually every other part of the country, and as there isn't likely to be any funding available to continue them, its likely most will disappear. Some of the marginal ones may survive as commercial services but such has been the gradual erosion of the profit margins together with the increasing costs of providing services, this is proving to be extremely difficult so it's unlikely a service to the racecourse on a Sunday could be run as a commercial venture.

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And if York was governed by North Yorkshire their would already be no Sunday services other than those operated commercially or funded by other bodies than the Council. The failure of the report to include the comment is however potentially serious unless it was received after the report had been drafted ( which can be some time before publication) and gets reported verbally at the meeting. John could always lodge a complaint

https://www.york.gov.uk/info/20243/contact_us/1566/make_a_complaint_or_suggestion

 

On the other hand I cannot see that it would carry much weight; the instance of non race events attracting significant numbers of visitors on Sundays throughout the year  is relatively low and it would be difficult to justify a service on that basis. It would be down to each event to persuade a local operator to run a service commercially - given that this happened on the Saturday this year then it could possibly occur on the Sunday if the 11 gets withdrawn that day. Maybe one approach, in agreement with a local bus operator, would be to presell bus tickets with advance tickets on the basis that if enough are not sold to justify the service  it is not operated and the purchasers get a refund at the show.

 

The other alternatively is that it is about a 2/3 mile walk from bus stops on Tadcaster Road.

 

Mike

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Interesting. Perhaps a shuttle mini bus from Tadcaster Road down to the venue entrance, rather than try to organise something from York Station just to the racecourse.

Need to ponder.

 

Peter

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Interesting. Perhaps a shuttle mini bus from Tadcaster Road down to the venue entrance, rather than try to organise something from York Station just to the racecourse.

Need to ponder.

 

Peter

A whole 0.8 mile!

 

Paul

[and I know this is not acceptable for some forms of disability]

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It might be worth having a look at Mike Cook's "The Show Must Go On" which has quite a bit about the problems he had with the bus service—and how they were resolved at the time.

Edited by D9020 Nimbus

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It may be worth approaching one of the independent operators locally to see if a deal can be done with them, either running the service for a set cost to the show, fare revenue offsetting the final bill, or if any might even be willing to stick their neck out and run it commercially for the three days. It would  be worth considering at an early stage as the service would need to be registered which takes a couple of months but also allows the operator to recoup some of the running cost by way of Bus Service Operator Grant, reducing the cost to the show a little more.

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I posted the comment not in anticipation the YCC decision will be to support the buses but as an update on what is going on.

 

As a retired local government manager I know one of the biggest problems for buses is the passes (and I do use mine) because central government fails to 100% reimburse as they also fail to do for many other items. York is not alone, was planning to use a service bus from the suburbs into central Kidderminster a few weeks ago as a park and ride option, last bus back just after 5 so a non-starter.

 

As PeterL has posted, the committee will look at it and see what the options are for next year, but at least we are forewarned in plenty of time that the service bus option may not be there. It is easy to forget how lucky I am where I live with evening buses running half-hourly until at least midnight 7 days a week.

Edited by john new

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Wearing one of my other hats, I am involved with the running of our local folk music festival and we asked a locally based bus company to provide a service between the site and the town centre, the bus station and the railway station. They do this half hourly from about 10am to around 2am over the three days of the festival. Presumably they are able to make a profit though I haven't personally asked them.

I'm only really saying this to prove that it is possible if you can find someone who is willing. Perhaps not the bigger operators who have greater expenses.

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Quick update on things relating to York Show for next year.

 

On the positive side the Advance Ticket Box Office is now open for postal or on-line orders (PayPal) and all prices and times have been held as per 2016. Links from our Facebook page or on our website at http://www.yorkshow.org.uk/advance.htm

 

Less welcome news is that the anticipated subsidy cut to the service 11 bus for Sundays has been confirmed by York City Council. Not yet aware of the Bank Monday timetable but last year it ran to the Sunday pattern therefore it is almost certain there will not be a number 11 on Monday either.

Edited by john new

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The team is well on with the organisation of the Show and hopefully will soon be publishing the list of layouts etc on the website.  We will let you know as things progress.

 

Peter

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The team is well on with the organisation of the Show and hopefully will soon be publishing the list of layouts etc on the website.  We will let you know as things progress.

 

Peter

Now done as per Peter's prediction. More to come but the initial list is now up. http://www.yorkshow.org.uk/layouts.htm

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Unless a bus service from the station to the Racecourse is provided, I won't be going (the 11 doesn't count whether or not it is running).

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There are plenty of taxies that will ply between the station and the racecourse.  With four sharing probably no more expensive than the normal bus fare. Unlikely they will accept concessionary cards though!

York Model Railway Show has never actually provided the bus service. We have looked and are still looking for a possible provider but not having much luck at the moment. As a not for profit organisation we cannot afford to subsidize any bus companies. We have less funds than York City Council!

 

Peter

Edited by peterl

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How come such relatively small shows such as Expo EM North, Scaleforum, (amongst others) can manage a free shuttle service in a classic bus all weekend.  Is there some sort of local regulation in York forbidding such a service?  A nominal donation would help to assist with the expenditure.  It is the lack of service rather than the fare that is the contentious issue here.

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If anyone would care to forward the details of a suitable bus company who would be prepared to do it, I am sure the organisers would be grateful for the contact.

 

steve

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Unless a bus service from the station to the Racecourse is provided, I won't be going (the 11 doesn't count whether or not it is running).

My feelings are if there is a bus service provided (free or payment) I have the option to use it.

 

I don't see it is the responsibility of the model exhibition organisers to a supply bus service if they can't or don't wish too.

 

It's a bit like free parking at the Warley exhibition, yes it could be free but we all would have to pay a higher admission charge to cover the cost.

 

Is that fair for the people who don't want to use the car park or in the case of York a free bus.

 

The last two years I have been to York I have walked from the station takes about 25 minutes alternatively a taxi could be shared if walking that distance is not possible.

 

Also there is a service bus which I have used with a stop about 200 yards away from the exhibition enterance.

 

Just google York bus sevives.

 

Terry

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If anyone would care to forward the details of a suitable bus company who would be prepared to do it, I am sure the organisers would be grateful for the contact.

steve

Mike Cook's "The Show Must Go On" makes it clear that in his time he did organize the bus service! I'm surprised the current organizers aren't aware of this. I'd suggest reading page 105 for some suitable inspiration. Reliance gets quite a bit of praise...

 

You never know how important some people are until they're no longer around...

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As far as I am aware the bus company referred to was taken over by the company that we have used to supply the service in previous years.  They have decided that it was not possible to provide the service as there were not enough passengers on the Sunday and Monday of the Show.  We are still looking for possible answers but York seems to be devoid of any organisation than has buses that wants to take it on.  There also seems to be a lack of drivers willing to work over the Easter weekend. So yet another problem.

 

Any positive ideas would be welcome. We are still exploring but as yet have not come up with a satisfactory solution. If you know of anybody who is willing to take it on but with the risk that they will make a loss then please let us know.

 

Peter

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As far as I am aware the bus company referred to was taken over by the company that we have used to supply the service in previous years.  They have decided that it was not possible to provide the service as there were not enough passengers on the Sunday and Monday of the Show.  We are still looking for possible answers but York seems to be devoid of any organisation than has buses that wants to take it on.  There also seems to be a lack of drivers willing to work over the Easter weekend. So yet another problem.

 

Any positive ideas would be welcome. We are still exploring but as yet have not come up with a satisfactory solution. If you know of anybody who is willing to take it on but with the risk that they will make a loss then please let us know.

 

Peter

 

Other shows use preserved bus to run a service is there any around  York ??

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We have not found one anywhere near York.  If somebody knows of one or even has a bus they would be prepared to run over the Easter weekend then please let me know.

 

Peter

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We have not found one anywhere near York.  If somebody knows of one or even has a bus they would be prepared to run over the Easter weekend then please let me know.

 

Peter

Are there none in the Leeds or general West Yorkshire area?  There's always plenty on show at the Wakefield Vintage Vehicle Rally every July - and Leeds to York isn't very far.

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Other shows use preserved bus to run a service is there any around  York ??

 

Ask Peter Crichton at the L&Y DCC Group, he has a Routemaster in Manchester.

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Ask Peter Crichton at the L&Y DCC Group, he has a Routemaster in Manchester.

 

That's the one used for EM North I believe.

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