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Talywain Big Arch Shed - NCB 1970ish OO: now under new ownership


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That's a nice little layout and is capturing the feel of the place quite well. A sister to Islwyn is under restoration at Blaenavon in the form of Llantarnam Abbey which also spent time at Big Arch IIRC. One day the railway will return to Big Arch when the Pontypool and Blaenavon Railway extend further southwards down the valley.

Thanks, yes Llantanam Abbey would make a good model, I think it differs slightly from Islwyn and Illtyd though not 100% sure. The layout is very much a compressed interpretation of the site (usual Modeller's comment of "I really could do with another couple of feet length and width" applies!), adding the landsale yard/repair shed, and even the siding on a gradient where wagons ran down under gravity through the arch, in order to be hauled by loco up to the Exchange sidings, would make for a very interesting layout but sadly I just don't have space.

Hope to visit the Pontypool & Blaenavon at some point, to have trains running over the "Big Arch" would be quite something. :-)

Martyn.

 

Edit: Another J94 with cast nameplates is shown in several photos so I'm wondering if that was a Mountain Ash one (which is where 7754 went after working at Talywain)?

Hattons do a heavily weathered Mountain Ash J94 so that may be added when funds permit.

Edited by Signaller69
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This is really coming to life now that you've added people and junk lying around. I'm a real fan of having junk lying around. :imsohappy:

Thanks Ruston,

Apart from loco crews those 3 figures are the entire population thus far! Being quite an isolated area there were not many folk around, however a lot of photos on internet searches show Enthusiast visits so some photographers will hopefully be added at some point.

As for junk, the site was littered with ash piles and discarded timbers, with a liberal covering of almost dead looking grass almost up to the shed doors, hopefully its not over done! (The shed site being formerly part of the English Iron Works iirc.)

Martyn.

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Very nice, I like it.  Good to see some 'proper' Welsh industrials.

 

As a small point, what are the chimneys on the two AB locos?  The 0-4-0 one certainly isn't the kit one - or at least it's nothing like the one in my kit!

 

Hope the Wrexham show went OK today.  Where was it being held?  I didn't know it was on.  My last experience of a model railway show in Wrexham was at least 30 years ago when I took my old 'Preesgwyn' layout.  Is there still a Wrexham MR club?

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Very nice, I like it. Good to see some 'proper' Welsh industrials.

 

As a small point, what are the chimneys on the two AB locos? The 0-4-0 one certainly isn't the kit one - or at least it's nothing like the one in my kit!

 

Hope the Wrexham show went OK today. Where was it being held? I didn't know it was on. My last experience of a model railway show in Wrexham was at least 30 years ago when I took my old 'Preesgwyn' layout. Is there still a Wrexham MR club?

Thanks, just back from Wrexham, show went well from my perspective, couple of locos still need work on the smooth running front though. It was at the War Memorial Hall and a Model & Hobby Show (held twice a year for past few years) rather than a straight Model Railway Exhibition, good crowd in this morning but was very quiet by 3pm.

I was a member of Wrexham MRC whilst living in as a student from 1989 to 1993, yes the Club is still going and I had the pleasure of catching up with the Chairman, Colin Tudor today, although they have moved premises in the past few years I'm told.

You are correct regarding the 0-4-0 chimney, it is a turned brass item, iirc it was Westward but I can't remember any more that; the awful original being consigned to the bin. The 0-6-0 chimney is a cast item from a box of bits I was given by a family friend who has since passed away, I suspect either LNWR or LMS design (4F perhaps, though I'm no expert). Sorry I can't be more specific. I will try to get a couple of photos up which may give more of a clue for the initiated.

Martyn.

 

Edit for photos.

post-28743-0-17021900-1478369353.jpgpost-28743-0-56709900-1478369369.jpg

Edited by Signaller69
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Couple of phone pics from today at Wrexham. As a proving run, and to advertise our Show in Prestatyn (see signature bar below) the layout was set up on a table; for future shows I will fit folding legs to give a higher viewing level, and a top facia with strip light(s), the lighting being woeful in the hall today. Fellow Club member Mike features in our striking yellow Club polo shirt!

post-28743-0-69517300-1478370119.jpgpost-28743-0-51674900-1478370148.jpg

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Thanks for the info Martyn.  You can see my efforts with this kit here -

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/106477-another-one-started-kingdom-kits-barclay-16/

 

Not the best kit I've ever tackled!

 

I remember visiting the WMRC clubrooms at Felin Puleston with Bill Basey many years ago.  It was Bill that arranged my visiting their exhibition with 'Preesgwyn'.

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Thanks for the info Martyn. You can see my efforts with this kit here -

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/106477-another-one-started-kingdom-kits-barclay-16/

 

Not the best kit I've ever tackled!

 

I remember visiting the WMRC clubrooms at Felin Puleston with Bill Basey many years ago. It was Bill that arranged my visiting their exhibition with 'Preesgwyn'.

Thanks for your link, your build certainly puts mine to shame, which was pretty much done using the stock parts, apart from the chimney and some Gibson buffers. My first loco kit when I was in my mid 20s, it almost put me off for life! Even with the small wheels on mine I had to space the chassis away from the body, and the cylinders away from the chassis using plasticard. Most of the lower boiler is cut away too. Power is from a DS10 type open frame motor and Perseverence motor mount with small 38:1 gears loctited in place so not easy to dismantle without removing the cylinders and destroying the bond between the gear and axle, and risking damaging the chassis in the process. It doesn't run badly in fairness but feels a little tight in places due to the minimal tolerances. As you say, not one of the great kits!

 

When I joined Wrexham Club in 89 the club rooms were in Acrefair near Ruabon, before moving to Wrexham itself in 1990.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Added a couple of yard lights and some Preiser Photographers today.

post-28743-0-64778200-1479488361.jpgpost-28743-0-51788500-1479488376.jpg

 

Also an unusual sight, couple of wagons off a MOD train, in for attention at the wagon repair shed (en route to Crinan, well, just because! Perhaps they need restraining chains/ropes adding. . .)

post-28743-0-69346000-1479488550.jpgpost-28743-0-18882600-1479488569.jpg

Hoping I can fit the layout into our show at Prestatyn in a couple of weeks (link in signature bar).

 

Martyn

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I made several brief visits to Talywain (Big Arch) Shed in 1970/71 after the line to Blaenserchan Colliery had closed and some of the photos taken may be of interest.

 

 

 

 

11932B © PGH.jpg

A view of the shed in May 1970, apparently rather a grotty day weather-wise and with nothing working.

 

11931B © PGH.jpg

Alongside the shed were these two vans converted from open wagons.

The first is lettered "10 Stores Van" and the second "Feed Van No.1" (for pit ponies ??)

 

13030B © PGH.jpg

In August 1970 ISLWYN was working and is shown here on the east side of the big arch (opposite side to the shed) about to return 4 empty wagons to the BR connection.

 

14017B © PGH.jpg

In July 1971 ISLWYN again was in use and this general view of the yard was taken from the BR embankment.

Wow, fantastic photos, many thanks for sharing them! I had seen a partial view of the "vans" in another photo and wondered if they had been used for transporting miners (with having end windows) but your comments indicate otherwise; feed for the pit ponies certainly makes sense. I know some old "standard" type vans were used for carrying miners (and sometimes rail enthusiasts) later, fitted with footboards. The second photo is the only one I have seen which shows in detail the wall of the workshop which was added behind the loco shed, and which sadly I don't have space for. The photos also show the state of the site prior to closure very nicely.

 

Edit: shots of the east side of the arch are also pretty rare, did the line just end at a buffer stop or were there further sidings there? Also the last shot gives an interesting angle which, again, I'd not seen before, and shows the site to be wider than I had imagined from studying "side on" photos, wish I had seen this image when I was at the track laying stage as I could have done things slightly differently perhaps, but such is life!

 

Fascinating stuff! :-)

Martyn.

Edited by Signaller69
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I'm pleased that the photos were of interest. I believe that 'proper' vans were used on the miners trains and two are in front of ISLWYN in the photo (excuse poor quality) below, showing the two footboards fitted below the doors.

 

 

 

13034B © PGH.jpg

 

On the east side of the Big Arch the line originally continued to join the main line at Pentwyn Junction and this served as the access to the Ironworks which occupied the site of the yard until it closed in 1882. This line is shown intact on the 1962 OS map, but I don't know whether it was still so in 1970/71. By that date it only served as a headshunt for the line which climbed up to the Blaenserchan Colliery line on the west side of the arch, then reversed to join the BR line at Talywain Station.

 

14014B © PGH.jpg

In this photo ISLWYN is on the Blaenserchan line about to descend the gradient to the yard with three full wagons.

 

14015B © PGH.jpg

and here just starting the descent, the connecting line to BR is just above the locos rear buffer.

If you go to the Old Maps website - www.old-maps.co.uk - and type in the OS Grid Reference SO 258036 you can see how the layout changed over the years.

Many thanks again, more useful photos and information, I think I may have to start a bigger and more accurate layout one day! I see what you mean about the east side headshunt formerly connecting to the "Main" line. Another useful map resource is here: http://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=15&lat=51.7254&lon=-3.0715&layers=11&b=1 which allows overlaying on satelite photos, very good for exploring old industrial sites.

Cheers,

Martyn.

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" A sister to Islwyn is under restoration at Blaenavon in the form of Llantarnam Abbey which also spent time at Big Arch IIRC. "

 

No this isn't correct. Llantanum Abbey was never at Talywain  and isn't really a sister, being a 14" loco. The Barclays at Talywain were much more modern and powerful being 17" locos.

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This kit didn't use one of the Fife class Barclays as a prototype.

 

The loco drawings Kingdom Kits used were of a one off , which was at Ormesby Steelworks Middlesborough. I have never seen a  photo of the loco but it was dismantled by 1968 and then scrapped. It had a different boiler to the Fife locos.

I have this kit which I got made up by a professional model maker.

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This kit didn't use one of the Fife class Barclays as a prototype.

 

The loco drawings Kingdom Kits used were of a one off , which was at Ormesby Steelworks Middlesborough. I have never seen a photo of the loco but it was dismantled by 1968 and then scrapped. It had a different boiler to the Fife locos.

I have this kit which I got made up by a professional model maker.

Thanks, interesting information, have you a pic of your model? Seems odd that Kingdom Kits being a Scottish concern chose a one off of a NE based loco, wasn't the one that ended up at Skinningrove by any chance? (Top photo here: http://www.image-archive.org.uk/?cat=11&paged=60 )

There were certainly very similar machines in Scotland and elsewhere still in existence they could have chosen to measure up, but then if they had plans for that particular loco to hand it would explain it.

 

Regarding Islwyn and Llantanam Abbey, the latter looks bigger to me, the cab in particular but admittedly that is just an observation based on photos, rather than plans, which for the 0-6-0s seem like rocking horse do-dah.

Edited by Signaller69
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Thanks, interesting information, have you a pic of your model? Seems odd that Kingdom Kits being a Scottish concern chose a one off of a NE based loco, wasn't the one that ended up at Skinningrove by any chance? (Top photo here: http://www.image-archive.org.uk/?cat=11&paged=60 )

There were certainly very similar machines in Scotland and elsewhere still in existence they could have chosen to measure up, but then if they had plans for that particular loco to hand it would explain it.

 

Regarding Islwyn and Llantanam Abbey, the latter looks bigger to me, the cab in particular but admittedly that is just an observation based on photos, rather than plans, which for the 0-6-0s seem like rocking horse do-dah.

 

Llantanam Abbey is the smaller machine - the cab looks bigger because it is, proportionately, to the rest of the loco. Drawings for Barclays are held at Glasgow University:

 

http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/rd/N13939914

 

http://www.gla.ac.uk/services/archives/

 

While there are relatively few published, I understand that survival is good and that they are indexed by works number.

 

Adam

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Llantanam Abbey is the smaller machine - the cab looks bigger because it is, proportionately, to the rest of the loco. Drawings for Barclays are held at Glasgow University:

 

http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/rd/N13939914

 

http://www.gla.ac.uk/services/archives/

 

While there are relatively few published, I understand that survival is good and that they are indexed by works number.

 

Adam

Thanks Adam, very useful! :-)

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I made several brief visits to Talywain (Big Arch) Shed in 1970/71 after the line to Blaenserchan Colliery had closed and some of the photos taken may be of interest.

 

 

attachicon.gif11931B © PGH.jpg

 

Alongside the shed were these two vans converted from open wagons. 

The first is lettered "10  Stores Van" and the second "Feed Van  No.1"  (for pit ponies ??)

 

 

Because Blaenserchan Colliery was only accessible by rail (successfully that is) there were a number of vehicles converted to other uses.

.

The ex-GWR and ex-LMS vans forming the 'paddy train' replaced much older, life expired stock from a variety of dubious backgrounds.

.

There was at least one 'feed van' - which was employed for carrying feed for the ponies.

.

Another conversion was a Charles Roberts slope sided mineral wagon, fitted with an apex roof covered in 'wiggly tin' and new wooden cupboard style doors in place of the original drop doors. This was for conveying 'stone dust' used to combat firedamp.

.

Another van was used as an 'ambulance' vehicle.

.

The system had at least one short wheelbase, wooden underframed flat for PW and maintenance work.

.

Brian R

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Because Blaenserchan Colliery was only accessible by rail (successfully that is) there were a number of vehicles converted to other uses.

.

The ex-GWR and ex-LMS vans forming the 'paddy train' replaced much older, life expired stock from a variety of dubious backgrounds.

.

There was at least one 'feed van' - which was employed for carrying feed for the ponies.

.

Another conversion was a Charles Roberts slope sided mineral wagon, fitted with an apex roof covered in 'wiggly tin' and new wooden cupboard style doors in place of the original drop doors. This was for conveying 'stone dust' used to combat firedamp.

.

Another van was used as an 'ambulance' vehicle.

.

The system had at least one short wheelbase, wooden underframed flat for PW and maintenance work.

.

Brian R

Thats what I love about this forum, so many knowledgeable folk able to come forward with useful information! Many thanks Brian.

Martyn.

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.

Another conversion was a Charles Roberts slope sided mineral wagon, fitted with an apex roof covered in 'wiggly tin' and new wooden cupboard style doors in place of the original drop doors. This was for conveying 'stone dust' used to combat firedamp.

.

Brian R

To be pedantic, stone dust wasn't used in coal mines to combat firedamp, which of course is a mining term for methane gas. Stone dust was used to prevent coal dust explosions, which could be caused by firedamp explosions but were far more devastating than an explosion of firedamp alone.

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To be pedantic, stone dust wasn't used in coal mines to combat firedamp, which of course is a mining term for methane gas. Stone dust was used to prevent coal dust explosions, which could be caused by firedamp explosions but were far more devastating than an explosion of firedamp alone.

 

You're forgiven !

.

.

.

.

The following previous threads may also have a bearing on this topic:-

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/31388-ncb-south-wales-area-paddy-trains/

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/109953-ncb-paddy-trains-1950s-onwards/

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/75459-non-coal-traffic-on-colliery-railways/

 

Brian R

Edited by br2975
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Very nice layout. Just did a bit of googling of the real place. Kinda desolate location. I like. Did you use say the DJH kit as the source of casting and can for the AB saddle tank? Where did you come across the plans and any picks of the build?

 

Keenip the good work.

 

J

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Very nice layout. Just did a bit of googling of the real place. Kinda desolate location. I like. Did you use say the DJH kit as the source of casting and can for the AB saddle tank? Where did you come across the plans and any picks of the build?

 

Keenip the good work.

 

J

Thanks J, The Barclay 0-4-0 is from a long unavailable "Kingdom Kits" and was a horrible kit as mentioned in posts above. "Islwyn" was scratchbuilt in plastic card around a Hornby/Electrotren "Taff Vale tank" chassis, using only photos of the prototype for reference, further info on my Workbench thread here http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/112980-wilds-work-bench-rtr-mods-kits-and-scratchbuilding/page-2

 

Hope this helps.

Martyn.

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I attach a  photo of a Fife Barclay in typical NCB condition and environment. Note the broken buffer head,  bent step and running board (on far side).
Also the boiler isn't lagged which was a cost saving exercise used by NCB at Cowdenbeath shops.

 

This is No.6 AB2261 of 1949 now preserved in working order at Oswestry. Photo is thought to be taken at Blairhall Colliery in Fife outside the loco shed.

 

post-11100-0-39711900-1480334071_thumb.jpg

Edited by Respite
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