Upcoming O gauge sale - End of the line at Marsh Lane

[Jon Fitness]

Hi Rich, as soon as soldering methods and techniques get mentioned on here it usually ends in a big shouty match about what's the best way to do things.

About the only things that seem to be agreed on are,

1. sufficient heat available in the iron
2. Clean surfaces to be soldered first
3. use a flux
4. Wash the job down at the end of each soldering session to remove flux
5. Don't use lead free solder, it's crap!

For what its worth I use this flux. It works for me and smells less 'orrible than other fluxes I have used before.

 

Opens popcorn and settles down!

 

JF

[brossard]

There's a shock Jon, I agree with everything you said. 

 

John

[MarshLane]

I would say that 25W is much too small Rich.  My Weller soldering station is rated at 50W.  When soldering Comet 4mm underframes I had to increase the tip temperature from 340C to ~ 390C to get the solder to flow.  Insufficient heat will feel sticky.  Use a fiberglass pen to clean the surface before soldering.  Use plenty of flux (it's not single malt as Iain Rice says).  ...and yes, do use lead solder, I hate the non lead stuff (although I'm sure there will be those who disagree).

 

I'm with you on open flames but this torch has quite a small one.

 

John

 

Thanks John, you've confirmed what I was thinking earlier - the search for a new hotter iron is on!  Fiberglass Pen's - thats what I was trying to think of earlier for cleaning before soldering.  Something else that vill go on zee list ... sorry been watching Dads Army

 

 

That's such a shame Rich, I hope you get it sorted mate, and start to produce this Monster.

 

Thanks Andy - one of those minor setbacks, from which we learn and go forward.  As my Dad says, you need to make mistakes to learn sometimes.  This wasn't so much of a mistake, just not making sure I had the right equipment in the first place ... not like putting Petrol in a Diesel engine is it ... uhmm, can't think why I would have suggested that comparison! . Im determined to build it tho, and if necessary, I'll just keep taking it apart until I get the bloody thing right!!!! 

 

 

Hi Rich,

 

Powerflow flux is basically plumbers flux paste and will leave uncleaned items green. I too have heard of its problems with paint not adhering, but I tend to clean my completed soldered items in Acetone which removes it all very well. A lot of these modern (health and safety conscious) fluxes are supposed to be very good, but I'm yet to try them myself, but I do intend to do so at some point.

 

I've just acquired some quite nice 185 degree solder of that famous auction site, and it flows very nicely with the Weller 40w iron. It's also considerably less expensive than some brands.

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/282089050345?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&var=581041279216&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

 

 

This is the iron I use for general kit building, and I have a Chinese temp controlled iron for detail and smaller bits.

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Weller-Soldering-Iron-Kit-SP40NK-LED-Light-40-Watt-230-Volt-/400948271821?hash=item5d5a611acd:g:HKkAAOSw~AVYnhYx

 

And I use angled screwdriver tips that allow a clearer view and the angle helps getting into recesses to apply heat.

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Weller-replacement-Soldering-tip-S4-6-3mm-3-Piece-iron-SP40L-SI40-accessories-/361626762927?hash=item5432a27eaf:g:WjkAAOSw4DJYkqct

 

 

I'm sorry if it looks like an advert for Soldering equipment, but I just wanted to show you what I use with no problem.

For my 145 degree solder I use C&L products.

There are also some solder pastes out there which are full Tin/Lead and I've tried a couple of brands and found them to be rather good.

 

Hope that helps in some way Rich?

 

Jinty

 

Ah right, well I'll stay on the easy track and steer clear of power flow flux for now then.  Thanks for the links Jinty, I'll go take a look. Always useful as at least I know what I'm looking for/at! Always welcome such likes, its up to me what I do with them, but often far better than saying oh something that does this and does that!

 

As ever, that helps a lot Jinty .. think I'll have to bring these wagons over and treat you to a pint! lol

 

Hi Rich, as soon as soldering methods and techniques get mentioned on here it usually ends in a big shouty match about what's the best way to do things.

About the only things that seem to be agreed on are,

1. sufficient heat available in the iron
2. Clean surfaces to be soldered first
3. use a flux
4. Wash the job down at the end of each soldering session to remove flux
5. Don't use lead free solder, it's crap!

For what its worth I use this flux. It works for me and smells less 'orrible than other fluxes I have used before.

 

Opens popcorn and settles down!

 

JF

 

 

Don't keep the popcorn to yourself mate!  Given the amount of soldering you do, do you use a fibreglass pen for cleaning, or do you have other options?

 

Rich

[Jon Fitness]

 

 

 

Don't keep the popcorn to yourself mate!  Given the amount of soldering you do, do you use a fibreglass pen for cleaning, or do you have other options?

 

Rich

As horrible as they are with all those nasty fibres that get everywhere, yes I use them extensively for cleaning up. Reason? having tried many other methods it's still the quickest and most effective tool I have used for the job...but that's just my opinion!

JF

[Simond]

I agree with Jon on both counts - the fibreglass pencil is horrid, but works. Sort of nuclear option....

 

And cleaning before & after, good flux, hot iron, and avoid lead free... yep!

 

(Though I'm going to crack the lead free as I got a job lot free when they closed down my old works. Its list price is north of 30 quid a roll, so it must be good. The question is "how to use it?".)

 

Best

Simon

[brossard]

I hope you let us know when/if you sort out the lead free solder Simon.

 

Fiberglass pens do a cracking job at cleaning up solder mess.

 

John

[MarshLane]

(Though I'm going to crack the lead free as I got a job lot free when they closed down my old works. Its list price is north of 30 quid a roll, so it must be good. The question is "how to use it?".)

 

Is that a case of an answer looking for a question? hehe

 

Rich

[Jintyman]

 

As ever, that helps a lot Jinty .. think I'll have to bring these wagons over and treat you to a pint! lol

 

 

I totally agree with Jon as well.........................................

 

Shock/Horror, I don't drink alcohol!!!!!!!!      

But a nice Paned o de would go down lovely 

 

Jinty

[MarshLane]

Haha! Yay another teetotaller! I'm exactly the same, never have. So a trip to Costa coming up then!! Lol!

[81A Oldoak]

Haha! Yay another teetotaller! I'm exactly the same, never have. So a trip to Costa coming up then!! Lol!

I am a lifelong abstainer too. It's why I was able to hook up three-link couplings in 4mm scale.

[MarshLane]

Evening all,

Glad to see there's several of us of a similar vein where alcohol is concerned!!  Some of you may recall tat that last year I acquired a slightly damaged Class 60 in Trainload Metals livery - no major problems, just some varnish that had either been spilt down the bodyside or hadn't dried properly, but the more I looked at it the more I decided I didn't like it!   So while wanting to recreate a local machine, that was the obvious candidate for repaint.  

 

 

Hence it was dispatched to a mate in Sheffield for a trip through the paint shop and was duly returned this afternoon looking amazing!  Its too big to run on the future two-board, 6' long Little Arksey but will be one of the locos for the big loft layout.  I have to say Andi has done a superb job with it, and it looks wonderful sat outside in the Spring sunshine on Arksey!  These have all been taken on the big DSLR using Helicon software to present a fully focused image.

 

 

 

 

 

As you can see during the photo shoot 08202 arrived back on shed from its days shunting, so also got in on the pictures!

 

 

 

 

 

Rich

Edited April 8, 2017 by MarshLane

[MarshLane]

Evening all,

Its occurred to me that I've a few different projects on the go, and that some people reading this may think I've given up with some as I haven't mentioned a couple of things in a while, so this post is really a general round-up of where we are heading into Summer.  Im not starting anything else now until a few of these are finished!!!  But I do find having a few projects on the go gives me variety.

 

Marsh Lane Depot Building

Well things are almost complete with this - just need to finish the roof off and add the interior detailing. But all the lights etc, now work and I'm delighted with the result.  With the house-move on the horizon, my original plans for the building have changed somewhat so in some respects I'm at a little bit of a loss what to do with it now!  I suspect, it may end up on the big layout (when its built), possibly as the engine shed for the internal diesel fleet, failing that it may end up being sold.

 

LNER Brake Van Kit

Now basically completed.  Just needs some pickups adding to allow the onboard lights to be track powered.  The side lights need fibre optics fitting, and the whole thing needs a little filler, then painting, for which I'm waiting on the better, warmer weather.

 

Metrocar Model

This proposal was originally tied in with the layout that would have had the original depot building on, and while still on the go, its a little on the back burner.  The whole vehicle is designed in Illustrator, ready to be laser cut from MDF and plastic, but I'm waiting for the cab ends to be complete to check all measurements before proceeding.  The cabs are being CAD designed by a chap that I know, but he's been so busy with his day job recently, that things have come to a stop.  He's still progressing it however, and once the cab is complete and has been 3D printed, then I can check the drawing measurements and get on with building it.  The trailing and driving bogies are all identified as are the pantographs, the only big job (apart from building one!) is working out how to do the detailed bogie sides, which may be a resin cast - assuming I can work out how to do those!

 

Big Loft Layout

All on hold, pending a possible house move, but at least the trackwork has been designed, just need to make sure if I do move that the new house has a room large enough for it to fit in!

 

Little Arksey Railway

A portable 6' x 18" industrial railway layout.  Primarily intended for trying out various scenic options before progressing with the 'Big Layout'. The project is now well underway - see this thread - One board is almost ready for the trackwork to be painted, weathered and ballasted.  The other still needs the track work laying, but most items have been built.  Then its onto the scenery.  Motive power will include Dapol 08s, Minerva Peckett and Victory, and an NER electric loco, for which some overhead catenary will be built, although the real thing also used third rail, so thats an option yet too!

 

Modern Industrial Diesel Locomotive Scratchbuilding

This project was always destined to be a long term thing, but improving my knowledge of CAD design is ongoing.  The real thing will be photographed and measured up this month, so that will start the process moving on that one, at which point I'll reveal some more details.  But this will just bumble along in the background.  Once I'm happy with the CAD designs, then construction using 3D printing and brass will start.

 

Judith Egde Kits - NER Electric

Now underway, pending a new soldering iron and solder, which have been ordered and should be here within a few days.  This loco will, along with the Dapol 08s, be the key motive power for Little Arksey.  Again no rush with this one, just take my time and enjoy the build!

 

Like I say, I enjoy variety in modelling!!!

 

Rich

[Andrew P]

Just a few jobs then Rich!

 

I agree, you do need more than one project to keep the old Brain cells ticking over.

 

Not one of my favourite liveries that big Blue Beastie, but it does look smart. Two of my favourites were Loadhaul, Black / Orange, and Mainline Blue, but each to his, or her own, and good job were not all the same.

 

All the best mate.

[MarshLane]

Just a few jobs then Rich!

 

I agree, you do need more than one project to keep the old Brain cells ticking over.

 

Not one of my favourite liveries that big Blue Beastie, but it does look smart. Two of my favourites were Loadhaul, Black / Orange, and Mainline Blue, but each to his, or her own, and good job were not all the same.

 

All the best mate.

 

 

Hi Andy,

Thanks - its one that has always appealed to me, and somehow the slightly darker blue of 60006 seemed to look better than the light blue on 37501.  My dad used to work on the works, and managed to get me into the naming of 60006 and 60033 at Frodingham Platform, I still have the photos somewhere!  So this was always going to be a must do for me!  Just wish I could get things sorted out, so that I can get the big layout moved on, but in the meantime, its down to wagon collecting - although I can see a couple of Heljan centre-head code 20s being added to the fleet later this year!

 

RIch

[MarshLane]

Metrocar Model

This proposal was originally tied in with the layout that would have had the original depot building on, and while still on the go, its a little on the back burner.  The whole vehicle is designed in Illustrator, ready to be laser cut from MDF and plastic, but I'm waiting for the cab ends to be complete to check all measurements before proceeding.  The cabs are being CAD designed by a chap that I know, but he's been so busy with his day job recently, that things have come to a stop.  He's still progressing it however, and once the cab is complete and has been 3D printed, then I can check the drawing measurements and get on with building it.  The trailing and driving bogies are all identified as are the pantographs, the only big job (apart from building one!) is working out how to do the detailed bogie sides, which may be a resin cast - assuming I can work out how to do those!

 

 

Evening all,

Well its sods law isn't it.  I post an update on where we are with things, and then progress appears!!  A few of you have emailed me about the metro car model and design.  At the moment I've no plans to make it commercially available, I'm not sure on things like copyright of design etc, aside from anything else, but I'm sure if at the end of the day anyone else wanted the drawings, or the various parts to build one themselves that something could be sorted out.

 

The whole metrocar project is an 'as and when I have a bit of time' style project, but I do like the T&W Metro, and the light rail systems, and my current thinking is that my test bed layout that runs along the length of my study at home might get removed, and replaced with a small Tyne & Wear two-platform terminal station, with engineers siding, something akin to the original plan for the metro cars, but that is all someway off at the moment. However, the chap who is doing the CAD drawing for the driving cab end, which will then be 3D printed, has sent me some preview shots over.  We're only part way through the design at this stage, and the window area has yet to be added, but i think its coming together slowly, and thought that some of you may be interested to see it...

 

  

 

Like I say, still work in progress, but I think we've got the angles right.  Once I've got a 3D print here, I'll double check all the measurements against the bodyside and we'll see where we go from there about getting the rest of it laser printed.

 

Rich

[Marcus 37]

Blimey Rich. You've certainly got a lot of projects on the go mate. I'm having enough trouble trying to get some time on PDW at the moment. Seeing the other pictures of the 60 it really does look superb. Much better than the CORUS livery they were painted in after BSC was taken over.

Look forward to seeing the progress on the mystery diesel.

All the best

Cheers

Marcus

[MarshLane]

Just two things to remember for soldering Rich, cleanliness and enough heat!!!!

Jinty

Quick question guys, what is the best thing to clean brass with after a soldering session?

 

Rich

[Simond]

Rich

 

I use "Shiny Sinks", & whack it in the ultrasonic bath, otherwise rinse in lots of hot water.

 

Some people use Viakal, I haven't tried it.

 

Best

Simon

[MarshLane]

Rich

 

I use "Shiny Sinks", & whack it in the ultrasonic bath, otherwise rinse in lots of hot water.

 

Some people use Viakal, I haven't tried it.

 

Best

Simon

 

 

Thanks Simon,

I'll see if I can get some of that - might be a daft question, but what is an ultrasonic bath?  Im assuming its some bowl with a UV style light above?

 

Rich

[MarshLane]

Evening all,

Well, as you might have guessed from the last couple of messages, I've had an evening soldering!  Not helped by the fact that I'm full of cold and spent the day half shivering and half boiling, but the solder recommended by JInty turned up today, and the new Weller 40W soldering iron (also a Jinty recommendation) turned up yesterday, so I thought why not!

 

Whether it was the solder or the iron that was causing my problems, I don't know, but the new kit works a treat!  Had about an hour or so tonight, and really enjoyed it!   Never realised bonding two pieces of brass together could be so much fun ... despite a couple of burnt finger tips!  So, where have I got to, well to recap this is the Judith Edge Kits NER Bo-Bo electric shunter, ES1 kit in 7mm, and its the first brass kit I've tackled.  I managed to get the two side solebars on quite quickly, then the end inner buffer means took a bit of sussing out until I realised that they went on the end of the solebars and not between them!  Having realised that, I then looked at the position of the four cross-spacer beams and decided it would be easier to solder those to the frames first - well that started a merry little dance to find the sods!  I appreciate the at the frets are designed to make best use of the space, but it took me a while to discover the fourth one! All on different frets and in different places!  No criticism of the kit, probably me just not being used these kind of things.

 

However, all were found, soldered in and the entire assembly is now rock steady with no flexing at all.

 

 

 

 

When its sat with the frame on the bottom there is a very small amount of rocking, but absolutely none, when turned upside down and sat on the solebars, so while I'm thinking I may have got a little too much heat into it at times, I think it will be ok.  There's no visual warping of the brass at all.

 

 

The one thing I have noticed is that the soldering iron tip is corroding very quickly, probably only get one solder join, before I need to take a file to it and clean it - is that right or am I doing something wrong?

 

First impressions are I like this brass kit building, although I'm only on what most people would consider the easy stages at the moment, so I guess there could be plenty of opportunities ahead for me to change my mind on that outcome lol!!  But certainly eager to do it a bit more tomorrow!

 

Rich

Edited April 12, 2017 by MarshLane

[Simond]

One of these

 

http://www.bestultrasonic.co.uk

 

Mine is a bit like this - http://www.bestultrasonic.co.uk/3l-ultrasonic-cleaner--bath---professional---dental-78-p.asp

 

Worthwhile investment if you do a lot of brass.

 

Best

Simon

[Simond]

If your soldering iron is suffering, I suspect your flux is not ideal, but getting a wet sponge to clean it every time will help. I also use a metal pot with a sort of pan scourer in, like this.

 

https://shop.pimoroni.com/products/soldering-tip-cleaner?utm_medium=cpc&utm_source=googlepla&variant=293836429&gclid=CMua2vfmn9MCFbAy0wodchMBiA

 

There are cheaper ones about.

 

Re flux, I used Powerflow for years, but it's very aggressive, doesn't wash off easily, and corrodes the metal leaving horrid green stuff in your model, wrecking your paint job, if you don't get it all off. I now use home brew citric acid flux, mix IPA (not the beer!) with water, 50:50, and then dissolve as much citric acid as possible. It works well, but does go rather sticky. The stickiness rinses off easily.

 

Best

Simon

[brossard]

So happy to hear you're having success with the new kit Rich.  It is really satisfying to see the joint being made instantly.  As Simon says, if your iron is suffering the flux may be too aggressive, I don't recognise it.  As I mentioned above, I use non acid flux, my bits last a long time despite me not cleaning them as often as I should.

 

John

[PaulCheffus]

Hi

 

Did you tin the soldering iron tip before using it?

 

You shouldn't really file the soldering iron tip as it will remove the coating. Using either a sponge or the brass wire is a good idea after each joint. I also use one of these to re tin the tip to keep it clean.

 

https://eileensemporium.com/index.php?option=com_hikashop&ctrl=product&task=show&cid=963&name=soldering-iron-tip-tinner-cleaner&Itemid=189&category_pathway=1122

 

Cheers

 

Paul

[MarshLane]

Blimey Rich. You've certainly got a lot of projects on the go mate. I'm having enough trouble trying to get some time on PDW at the moment. Seeing the other pictures of the 60 it really does look superb. Much better than the CORUS livery they were painted in after BSC was taken over.

Look forward to seeing the progress on the mystery diesel.

All the best

Cheers

Marcus

 

Hi Marcus,

Sorry missed your post earlier.  Well I like to have different things occupying my brain, especially when I hit a snag with something, I can walk away doing something else and then come back to it a bit later, plus it stops me from getting board!!  Your doing well with PDW, that new building looks superb.  Totally agree, the Corus and Tata liveries are ok ish when in full sun but I'm not fan of them at all.

 

 

So happy to hear you're having success with the new kit Rich.  It is really satisfying to see the joint being made instantly.  As Simon says, if your iron is suffering the flux may be too aggressive, I don't recognise it.  As I mentioned above, I use non acid flux, my bits last a long time despite me not cleaning them as often as I should.

 

John

 

Hi John,

Thanks for that, I'm looking around at different flux options and have been going back over the suggestions from yourself and others looking for something better.

 

Hi

 

Did you tin the soldering iron tip before using it?

 

You shouldn't really file the soldering iron tip as it will remove the coating. Using either a sponge or the brass wire is a good idea after each joint. I also use one of these to re tin the tip to keep it clean.

 

https://eileensemporium.com/index.php?option=com_hikashop&ctrl=product&task=show&cid=963&name=soldering-iron-tip-tinner-cleaner&Itemid=189&category_pathway=1122

 

Cheers

 

Paul

 

 

Hi Paul,

Ah didn't know that, thats a good tip (excuse the pun!) I have got a old pan scrub, that Im using the sponge side of but it didn't seem to be moving the corrosive.  This iron tip seems different from the other's I've had in that solder just doesn't seem to want to take to it at all, and no matter how hard I try it won't tin. The solder either runs off, or just goes into a ball.  Apply the iron to the solder against the brass however and it goes first time.  Im not totally convinced everything is right, but in all honesty, don't know enough about soldering to work out what might be wrong!  Thanks for the Soldering Tip Tinner Cleaner link, I'll take a look at that.  

 

Rich