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10 minutes ago, corneliuslundie said:

It is surely a safety issue if the doors cannot be opened on demand?

 

Guess it's a result of trying to make sure that they can't be opened in places where it's a very bad idea to open them. Any system put in place to stop them being opened at all will increase the chances of them staying shut when you want them to open, perfection isn't possible (although better than this certainly is!)

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17 minutes ago, corneliuslundie said:

It is surely a safety issue if the doors cannot be opened on demand?

Jonathan

Oh puhllease, why is everything a safety issue, please explain how your safety is compromised if the doors remain closed for a few minutes?

Doors not releasing at a station is an inconvenience, nothing more!

 

There is the EMERGENCY (<<< the clue is in this bit <<<) egress so the doors can be opened in an emergency!

 

Of course the egress wont dump the brake or allow the door to be opened until the train is below 5(ish) mph so I assume that is a safety issue if the train is on fire and you cant get off at 90mph as well!

 

Train windows are now laminated which can take a fair bit of effort to smash so maybe they should be changed back to toughened glass because that is easier to smash, but then it is also more likely to be smashed if a coach overturns so people could be expelled and crushed to death, so maybe they should be laminated to prevent them breaking, and round and round we go.

 

Any safety feature will always be a compromise because what saves you in one situation could/will put you in danger in another!

Edited by royaloak

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Sorry, I was meaning that if the guard cannot open the door it is a safety issue. In that case is it certain that the emergency system would work, as I assume they are least partly linked within the control systems. I was not expecting the punters to release the doors.

Mind you having been in an incident on a driver only train where the train caught fire and the driver left it, I think perhaps it should be practicable for the punters to take appropriate action. In that case I seem to remember that we all left via the driver's door.

Jonathan

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22 minutes ago, corneliuslundie said:

Sorry, I was meaning that if the guard cannot open the door it is a safety issue. In that case is it certain that the emergency system would work,

Yes yes yes 100% yes, egresses are mechanical (bowden cables) not electrical so if the issue is electrical the doors can still be opened, the circuit which prevents the doors being opened above 5mph is such that once power is removed (either deliberately or a fault) the doors can be opened, fail safe. 

 

I am not doing the DOO debate again, it has been done to death, resurrected and done to death again and again so there is no need.

Edited by royaloak
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To clarify my earlier remarks, I suspect that the reason that passengers  aren't allowed to board through the gaurd's door on the 1st class trailer, is that the galley is next to the doors so there may not be a safe through route for passengers.  However the lady did spend quite a bit of time on the intercom to the driver and pressed various reset buttons several times before the train doors released. The loco was at the east end of the train next to the first class.

 

Jamie

Edited by jamie92208

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2 minutes ago, jamie92208 said:

To clarify my earlier remarks, I suspect that the reason that passengers  aren't allowed to board through the gaurd's door on the 1st class trailer, is that the galley is next to the doors so there may not be a safe through route for passengers.  However the lady did spend quite a bit of time on the intercom to the driver and pressed various reset buttons several times before the train doors released. The loco was at the east end of the train next to the first class.

 

Jamie

Do you know if it was an SDO station or a release all?

Probably a simple issue but the lack of familiarity of the staff with the new trains is normally what takes the time, when the staff are familiar with them it would probably have been sorted in about 30 seconds.

 

I had a funny one when the IETs were being rolled out to the West Country, ready to leave Plymouth on the Up and the Guard contacted me to say they couldnt close the doors, I looked at the TMS and told him it would help if he keyed in, he had gone through all the fault finding things (obviously none of it worked) but had forgotten the simplest thing, oh how we laughed about it afterwards.

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12 minutes ago, jamie92208 said:

To clarify my earlier remarks, I suspect that the reason that passengers  aren't allowed to board through the gaurd's door on the 1st class trailer, is that the galley is next to the doors so there may not be a safe through route for passengers.  However the lady did spend quite a bit of time on the intercom to the driver and pressed various reset buttons several times before the train doors released. The loco was at the east end of the train next to the first class.

 

Jamie

So fairly clear, as 'Royal Oak' said, that we are not talking about a 'safety issue' but ordinary door operation in traffic conditions and not the method/releases for opening doors in an emergency.   A further point seems relevant here and that is how train door position information is given to intending passengers waiting to board a train.  There will inevitably be a delay if passengers are standing in the wrong place to board - even (or even more so) when they don't know they are standing in the wrong place or which doors are there for public use.  Dead easy to label a door 'For Staff Use Only'.

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3 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

So fairly clear, as 'Royal Oak' said, that we are not talking about a 'safety issue' but ordinary door operation in traffic conditions and not the method/releases for opening doors in an emergency.   A further point seems relevant here and that is how train door position information is given to intending passengers waiting to board a train.  There will inevitably be a delay if passengers are standing in the wrong place to board - even (or even more so) when they don't know they are standing in the wrong place or which doors are there for public use.  Dead easy to label a door 'For Staff Use Only'.

 

The Guard's door (door at the end of the 1st class coach next to the loco) is labelled thus - I had plenty of time to look at one at Scarborough station last Friday. 

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Taking a long time to release the doors increases the risk that a passenger will take it upon themselves to use the manual egress. That’s not going to do much good for your timekeeping.

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On 27/01/2020 at 19:00, royaloak said:

Do you know if it was an SDO station or a release all?

Probably a simple issue but the lack of familiarity of the staff with the new trains is normally what takes the time, when the staff are familiar with them it would probably have been sorted in about 30 seconds.

 

I had a funny one when the IETs were being rolled out to the West Country, ready to leave Plymouth on the Up and the Guard contacted me to say they couldnt close the doors, I looked at the TMS and told him it would help if he keyed in, he had gone through all the fault finding things (obviously none of it worked) but had forgotten the simplest thing, oh how we laughed about it afterwards.

I don't think it's an SDO station so it was a release all.  Thinking about it the guard may well have made a couple of announcements  as well as talking to the driver.  I could see her talking into a handset but not hear what was being said.I believe from what a driver has told me, that a lot of the issues are with the coaches. 

 

Jamie

Edited by jamie92208
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Another day of trains, actually riding on them today. TPE managed to get me to Manchester over 30 minutes lare so delay repay kicks in. The delay was caused by waIting for a conductor at Leeds off an inbound working that had been delayed by a suicide attempt.   Not TPE's fault. They terminated the train, which was heading for the airport, short at Man Vic. Staff were conspicuous by their absence and the only suggestion on the tannoy was to wait 40 minutes for the next airport train. The young man opposite me was rather upset as he was likely to miss his flight so I advised him to do tram to Piccadilly then train again.  I thought on my feet and got the next train to Salford Crescent  and there changed into a 331 to Preston and  Pendolino to Lancaster.  Coming back I had a very nice 397 down to Oxford Road, 185 to Man Vic then caught a 68 hauled set ( set 6) back to Leeds. It went well but didn't regain any if it's 5 minutes of lateness between Manchester and Leeds. I suspect that we were following various local services as we slowed down quite often. The Nova 3 was quiet and smooth riding. The 68 sounded great but the comfiest seat of the day was on the 155 back to Castleford.  Several 802's were in evidence. The night before I was on Leeds and the Nova 3's were doing some of the airport runs as well as Liverpools.

 

Jamie

Edited by jamie92208
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Through the winter gloom on 30th January 2020, 68019 Brutus approaching Huddersfield with 1F64, 11.34 Scarborough to Liverpool Lime Street.

1882313920_680191F64Huddersfield30012020crop-RMweb.jpg.96d0ff640ce0f9578ce1e933682fdfc8.jpg

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I had another trip out yesterday, this time Castleford to York and return via Leeds. Then in the evening had an excellent  meal at the Garforth station cafe which is a very good Southern Italian restaurant. We had an upstairs room overlooking the platform.  At the moment the Scarborough  Liverpool service seems to be about 50% new stock. Over the past few days I've seen sets 6,7,8,9,12 and 13 in service with 7 different 68's.  The Redcar Manchester service and Hull Manchester are still solid 185's.  I've seen 12 of the 19 class 802's in service and the Manchester Airport to Newcastle and Edinburgh  seems to ve at about the 50% mark.  All in all it's been a very interesting week.  Train wise.

 

Jamie

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10 minutes ago, jamie92208 said:

I had another trip out yesterday, this time Castleford to York and return via Leeds. Then in the evening had an excellent  meal at the Garforth station cafe which is a very good Southern Italian restaurant. We had an upstairs room overlooking the platform.  At the moment the Scarborough  Liverpool service seems to be about 50% new stock. Over the past few days I've seen sets 6,7,8,9,12 and 13 in service with 7 different 68's.  The Redcar Manchester service and Hull Manchester are still solid 185's.  I've seen 12 of the 19 class 802's in service and the Manchester Airport to Newcastle and Edinburgh  seems to ve at about the 50% mark.  All in all it's been a very interesting week.  Train wise.

 

Jamie

 

Funny you mention Castleford because that's where I live. 

 

There has been some considerable developments with the new Nova TPE stock this week. Freightliner 47830 has brought the third and last MK5 set from secure storage at Longtown to Crewe, so technically now all twelve MK5 sets may be able to be seen on the network. The last set was TP03. Also 68031 'Felix' has made it's debut on the MK5 sets in active service. Last week one of the new Class 397s (009) to be precise has been moved to Carlisle Yard, and is set to be the first of three moved their for temporary storage due to not enough crews been trained on them to have all twelve in service at the moment. This is something that may take a while to change because from what I have heard several more crews need training on them in order for them to be put into active traffic. I understand as a temporary measure some 350s which should now be in traffic with LNWR (London North Western Railways) have been retained with TPE. Although they are been removed from traffic temporarily with TPE in order to have them revinyled in their new livery for their new operator. It's also thought that the 350s temporarily kept with TPE will shortly move to LNWR because they can't keep them any longer, so additional 185s (if their are any currently spare) will be needed to bolster the services for the Edinburgh route, what with only four 397s been active on these services too. 

 

I just hope that TPE manage to train more crews up quickly on the 397s, which in turn will allow 350s to go their new operator and increase capacity compared to the use of 185s. 

 

Hope this info is of use. 

 

Kind Regards, 

 

Danny. 

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Worth noting that TPE reintroduced a good number of cancelled services this week with the rest following in a few weeks time - IIRC there should be 11 802s out and about daily now.

Edited by Christopher125
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On 02/02/2020 at 20:18, DRS Crewe On A Mission said:

 

Although they are been removed from traffic temporarily with TPE in order to have them revinyled in their new livery for their new operator. It's also thought that the 350s temporarily kept with TPE will shortly move to LNWR because they can't keep them any longer, so additional 185s (if their are any currently spare) will be needed to bolster the services for the Edinburgh route, what with only four 397s been active on these services too. 

 

Explains why I saw and LNWR liveried 350 at Deansgate last weekend.

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1 hour ago, Christopher125 said:

Worth noting that TPE reintroduced a good number of cancelled services this week with the rest following in a few weeks time - IIRC there should be 11 802s out and about daily now.

 

Thanks for posting. 

 

That's good news. From what I know, their were some emergency timetable changes in January, so the fact that we are now in early February and more 802s seem to be entering traffic, this means that the introduction of new trains and the timetable getting back to some sort of normality, seems to be commencing. 

 

1 hour ago, woodenhead said:

Explains why I saw and LNWR liveried 350 at Deansgate last weekend.

 

Yes I have seen a few photos of the new livery on the ex TPE 350/4s. 

 

From what I know all except two or three are now in the new LNWR livery. 

 

350408 was the latest to receive new vinyls last week. So with that one completed, I'm sure their are only two left now in the old TPE livery. 

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Nova 1 set 802205 ready to depart from Huddersfield on 8th February 2020 with 9M12, 12.33 Edinburgh to Liverpool Lime Street.

1446659052_8022059M12Huddersfield08022020-RMweb.jpg.237fd44f23c3172b810130d29f2808ec.jpg

 

68025 'Superb' and Nova 3 set TP06 arriving at Huddersfield with 1E41, 14.54 Liverpool Lime Street to Scarborough.

317449768_68025TP061E41Huddersfield08022020-RMweb.jpg.a6779918a62028fa4d38802413c90deb.jpg

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On 06/02/2020 at 17:49, DRS Crewe On A Mission said:

That's good news. From what I know, their were some emergency timetable changes in January, so the fact that we are now in early February and more 802s seem to be entering traffic, this means that the introduction of new trains and the timetable getting back to some sort of normality, seems to be commencing. 

 

Should be thirteen 802s in use now plus a third 397, with all the withdrawn services back running.

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1 hour ago, Christopher125 said:

 

Should be thirteen 802s in use now plus a third 397, with all the withdrawn services back running.

 

That's really good news. I thought that their was already four 397s in service daily. Although I have just seen one post confirming this, so maybe this information was slightly inaccurate. I would imagine as the weeks go by and hopefully more training on the 397s happens, their will be more appearing in service from warm storage at Longsight and Carlisle. 

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2 minutes ago, DRS Crewe On A Mission said:

 

That's really good news. I thought that their was already four 397s in service daily. Although I have just seen one post confirming this, so maybe this information was slightly inaccurate. I would imagine as the weeks go by and hopefully more training on the 397s happens, their will be more appearing in service from warm storage at Longsight and Carlisle. 

 

I can only assume they were confusing the 397s with the loco-hauled mk5s, of which there are still 4 in use.

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6 minutes ago, Christopher125 said:

 

I can only assume they were confusing the 397s with the loco-hauled mk5s, of which there are still 4 in use.

 

That's true and a possibility. We have gone from two sets in use daily to three and four sets in use daily now with the 68s, MK5s and DTs. As this has been going for the past few weeks it shouldn't be long before we see more in service. The final two 68s registered on the DRS pools/TOPS (026 & 030) were transferred to the TPEX pool a few weeks ago for use with TPE and with the three stored MK5 sets returned from Longtown to Longsight, everything now is pretty much in place for more services to be rolled out. 

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Went for a ride on TPE Nova 3 last weekend from Leeds to Liverpool and back. Very nice, smooth and quiet. Despite the weather a good journey both ways.

 

Currently on a GWR 800 which is some sort of 19th century throwback in comparison. Huge thunks going over points and tiring wind noise that sounds like driving up the motorway with the window open!  Give me a Mk5 any day. And a proper loco!

 

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I'll post this under this topic in case it might be of interest to anyone wishing to have a trip or two on TPE's new trains;

 

TransPennine Express are currently running a £1 sale on advance purchase tickets.  Details here;

 

https://www.tpexpress.co.uk/sale

 

Just booked myself three separate return day trips from Huddersfield to Glasgow, Edinburgh and Liverpool for less than a tenner.  Most, hopefully, should be combinations of Novas 1, 2 and 3 aka, classes 802, 397 & 68/Mark 5.

 

 

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11 minutes ago, 4630 said:

I'll post this under this topic in case it might be of interest to anyone wishing to have a trip or two on TPE's new trains;

 

TransPennine Express are currently running a £1 sale on advance purchase tickets.  Details here;

 

https://www.tpexpress.co.uk/sale

 

Just booked myself three separate return day trips from Huddersfield to Glasgow, Edinburgh and Liverpool for less than a tenner.  Most, hopefully, should be combinations of Novas 1, 2 and 3 aka, classes 802, 397 & 68/Mark 5.

 

 

 

Thanks for posting. This is excellent news. 

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