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Well if this video is anything to go by, the transformation of TPEs trains is well under way

 

Interesting trains arriving from the East have their pantographs up by the time they are entering, but IEPs heading east leave on diesel - I'd have thought an initial punt on the juice to get the train moving then drop the pantograph under the bridge.

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I had a business trip to Manchester last week, staying at the airport. Journey down on Wednesday 26th was straightforward enough, I had one of the new class 397s (397006) to Manchester. Left and arrived on-time, but I was not particularly impressed, seats were fairly hard (much as most new stock today), the staff could not get a comfortable temperature in the coach, it was either too cold or stifling hot, the public address system was also not in use, they tried switching it on a Lancaster and it immediately told us we were at Deansgate!  Ride quality was rough compared to a 390 as well.
The journey home on the Friday was totally different! I arrived at Manchester Airport station in plenty of time for the 11:07 to Glasgow, but this was shown as cancelled and we were advised to use the 10:53 (to Cleethorpes) as far as Manchester Piccadilly, so I set of on a class 180 DMU for the short hop to Manchester, noticed a class 350 sitting at Ardwick and figured correctly that this was my ride home. Nipped across to platform 14 and duly the 350 (409) rolled in. Seat reservations were out the window and the train was full and standing. We then took 20 minutes to get to Deansgate as there were signalling issues in the area and we were under pass signal at danger rules all the way. Further delays were accumulated before Bolton just due to being out of path and stoppers in front. We then were brought to a stand at Lostock and the train manager told us that the driver had been told about possible OHLE damage between there and Blackrod, so we were to proceed at 10mph. Just beyond Blackrod we passed a unit that had broken down on the other line, turns out they though that unit had damaged the OHLE but thankfully it hadn't.
From Blackrod we were then 55 minutes down and although there were no further delays we were then told as we approached Carlisle that the train was terminating there, Avanti and Scotrail were accepting tickets so we were transferred to a class 390 that we running just behind us,TBH I was happy to be transferred as I had a much more comfortable seat.
 

Jim

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  • 3 weeks later...
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Rail Operations Group 47812 passing through Deighton on 30th June 2020 with TransPennine Express Nova 3 set TP02.

940920714_478125Q32Deighton300620201-RMweb.jpg.1b5e76dda04cf03caa16e8562b58409b.jpg

 

2044255168_478125Q32Deighton300620202-RMweb.jpg.4b0fc40410fbe1311fef9817f28ab9e5.jpg

 

TP02 had been in store at Gascoigne Wood Sidings since 15th April 2020.  Todays move was 5Q32, 08.48 Gascoigne Wood Sidings to Longsight Wheel Lathe - a quite appropriate destination judging from the several wheel flats that the set obviously has as it passed me.

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Posted (edited)

TransPennine Express 68022 'Resolution' with Nova 3 set TP13 heading through Ravensthorpe on 21st July 2020 with 5Z68, 11.07 Longsight TMD to York Siemens Trans Systems.

 

1020330767_68022TP135Z68Ravensthorpe210720201-RMweb.jpg.1fbcebce2df98195f7be03f70e0b2490.jpg

 

443979207_68022TP135Z68Ravensthorpe210720202-RMweb.jpg.accb2d78a4c961b533f4fba68e7542a0.jpg

 

I didn't catch the number of the Nova 1 set which was working 9M22, 10.46 Newcastle to Liverpool Lime Street, although I can be certain that it wasn't 802212 as that passed me a few minutes earlier working 1P23.

608055843_8022121P23Ravensthorpe21072020-RMweb.jpg.d862c81902bf6772572aaee5baed2248.jpg

 

 

Edited by 4630
To add a photo of 802212.
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I've put this off long enough...  

How can you tell which set is what Nova number?

:dontknow:

 

 

Kev.

 

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10 minutes ago, SHMD said:

I've put this off long enough...  

How can you tell which set is what Nova number?

:dontknow:

 

 

Kev.

 

Because the Nova 1,2,& 3 are completely different trains.

 

Nova 1 is the Hitachi CL802

Nova 2 is the CAF Civity CL397

Nova 3 is the CL68 MK5A combo.

 

Regards,

 

John P

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Interesting to see the 47 above - could that in theory operate the trains, or is it only able to drag them dead (so not able to use the DVT or anything else other than presumably the brakes)?

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The class 47s are only used to deliver the coach sets to the company and not for service use.

 

The coaches work in service with class 68 locos only

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6 hours ago, 313201 said:

The coaches work in service with class 68 locos only

 

And not all CL68's can be used, the TPE one's plus a couple of others have been modified to work the MK5a sets.

 

Regards,

 

John P

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Just now, jpendle said:

 

And not all CL68's can be used, the TPE one's plus a couple of others have been modified to work the MK5a sets.

 

Regards,

 

John P

 

 

68019-34

 

68033 and 034 are the only two DRS liveried ones that can operate with them unless they have converted more.

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That'd be for full normal operation (things like having the door controls in the loco) wouldn't it? Surely any air braked loco with the correct ETS output would be able to pull a train of mk5as with passengers on board, but not necessarily using the same operating procedures that they do the the 68s.

Obviously compatibility with the DTS for propelling is another matter.

No doubt there's paperwork & safety acceptance issues that would prevent it too, and no reason at all to get a 47 approved for the job.

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Really does make me think we've just made things far too complicated. It's easy enough to see all the reasons why it it is what it is, but when you take a step back is it really worth it?

 

Anyway, hadn't realised that not even all 68s could work with them (and I also thought they were designed to work with 88s because one of the points of the whole thing was to just change loco instead of the entire train when wired up, although of course that could've been planned with doing the necessary work).

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29 minutes ago, Reorte said:

Really does make me think we've just made things far too complicated. It's easy enough to see all the reasons why it it is what it is, but when you take a step back is it really worth it?

 

Anyway, hadn't realised that not even all 68s could work with them (and I also thought they were designed to work with 88s because one of the points of the whole thing was to just change loco instead of the entire train when wired up, although of course that could've been planned with doing the necessary work).

 

I don't think it's a lot of work what they did to make them compatible. I don't think it's like the Chiltern ones and mk3s which need a different system altogether AFAIK.

 

I do think it is as simple as the stuff that is missing from the cab to operate functions on the coaches, and a front destination board (which don't seem to be used).

 

I wonder if the mk5s have pantograph/electric system control in them if 88s/93s were part of the plan? You cannot operate those from the cab of a 68 so DRS need to consider this when deciding what end/order to put locos in when mixing 68s and 88s.

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3 hours ago, Reorte said:

Really does make me think we've just made things far too complicated. It's easy enough to see all the reasons why it it is what it is, but when you take a step back is it really worth it?

 

 

16 locos should be enough to cover all required diagrams with some to spare, and it's not really any different from the initial 12 Class 47/7s converted for the Edinburgh/Glasgow push-pull service back in the 1980s !

 

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Posted (edited)

I’m not sure of all the details, but it’s been reported this evening on another forum that all of the CAF built Mark 5 Nova 3 sets have been stopped until further notice due to ‘bogie issues’ on the Driving Open Brake Standard vehicles.  Class 185s will be deputising on the Scarborough services from 3rd October apparently.  

Edited by 4630
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16 hours ago, 4630 said:

I’m not sure of all the details, but it’s been reported this evening on another forum that all of the CAF built Mark 5 Nova 3 sets have been stopped until further notice due to ‘bogie issues’ on the Driving Open Brake Standard vehicles.  Class 185s will be deputising on the Scarborough services from 3rd October apparently.  

Looks like they have had to split the recent 6 car trains, a 3 car on 1F66 just now.

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Just to provide a bit of an update from a number of posts on other forums...

 

It would appear that this issue has been known about for several weeks with a National Incident Report issued on 19th August after a defect was spotted on a class 397, which together with classes 195 and 331 have a similar bogie and suspension set up to the Nova 3 Mark 5 stock.

 

The 397s are continuing to run in service with regular inspections of the affected components.  A modification is required which the builders CAF have in hand, apparently.   The work will be undertaken at Longsight depot.  With the immediate focus on sorting out the 397s, it's been suggested that TPE can currently cope without the Mark5s by substituting with class 185s.

 

 

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Posted (edited)
22 minutes ago, jamie92208 said:

I wonder whether this issue will affect the Caledonian sleeper mk5 stock as well.

 

Jamie


That crossed my mind too, although from a purely local point of view I’m more interested to learn if the 195s and 331s are similarly affected.  Even with the current reduced timetable taking many of them out of service simultaneously might cause a few issues for Northern Trains. 

Edited by 4630
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On 02/10/2020 at 21:40, 4630 said:

I’m not sure of all the details, but it’s been reported this evening on another forum that all of the CAF built Mark 5 Nova 3 sets have been stopped until further notice due to ‘bogie issues’ on the Driving Open Brake Standard vehicles.  Class 185s will be deputising on the Scarborough services from 3rd October apparently.  

 

2 hours ago, 4630 said:

Just to provide a bit of an update from a number of posts on other forums...

 

It would appear that this issue has been known about for several weeks with a National Incident Report issued on 19th August after a defect was spotted on a class 397, which together with classes 195 and 331 have a similar bogie and suspension set up to the Nova 3 Mark 5 stock.

 

The 397s are continuing to run in service with regular inspections of the affected components.  A modification is required which the builders CAF have in hand, apparently.   The work will be undertaken at Longsight depot.  With the immediate focus on sorting out the 397s, it's been suggested that TPE can currently cope without the Mark5s by substituting with class 185s.

 

 

 

Thank you for sharing this information. 

 

I haven't heard of this until you posted. Hopefully all of the units can be modified relatively quickly and it won't be too long before at least some of the units are back in traffic. It's a good job TPE still have all of their 185s. 

 

Kind Regards, 

 

Danny. 

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Posted (edited)
13 hours ago, DRS Crewe On A Mission said:

 

 

Thank you for sharing this information. 

 

I haven't heard of this until you posted. Hopefully all of the units can be modified relatively quickly and it won't be too long before at least some of the units are back in traffic. It's a good job TPE still have all of their 185s. 

 

Kind Regards, 

 

Danny. 

 

You're welcome Danny.

 

I know a few forum members here follow what's happening (or not as the case may be!) in the TransPennine Express and Northern Trains part of the network, and might not have seen the posts on other forums.

 

As you say, it's fortunate that TPE retained the full complement of 185s.  The suspension from service of the Mark 5s only affects the current 3 Liverpool Lime Street-Scarborough diagrams but, as noted by @dhjgreen above, will mean that some other TPE diagrams that have run recently as 2x185s (ie 6 cars) might revert to a single 185.

 

To some extent, from my recent observations, this had already happened to some services anyway.  The Leeds-Huddersfield hourly stoppers for instance, which for social distancing reasons had been running as 2x185s, reverted to a single unit a few weeks ago.  Even taking account of social distancing requirements I would imagine that that would be more than adequate given current passenger numbers. 

 

What with the various technical issues resulting in the glacial progress before the pandemic of introducing the Mark 5s to full service and now this latest set back, I can foresee that Accurascale will have delivered their new models to market before TPE has been able to get the entire fleet successfully into service.   

Edited by 4630
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Posted (edited)

Whatever the issue is, it appears that one of the three diagrams today is being worked by a class 68 and Mark 5.  The remaining two diagrams being worked by 185s.


68025+TP06 should be working the following today;

 

1F56  07:34  Scarborough - Manchester Victoria

5H56  10.01  Manchester Victoria - Longsight

5E43  15.00  Longsight - Manchester Victoria 
1E43  16:30  Manchester Victoria - Scarborough
1P92  19:34  Scarborough - Manchester Airport

5H90  22.43  Manchester Airport - Longsight

 

It’ll be interesting to see if it completes the full diagram.

 

Update

======

 

So with TP06 leading and 68025 'Superb' providing the power from the rear, here is 1F56 at Colne Bridge today.

1309060323_TP06680251F56ColneBridge05102020-RMweb.jpg.0304084b915a70438d52ad8ddf40517d.jpg

\

1812274136_68025TP061F56ColneBridge05102020-RMweb.jpg.311201fa9f1ffb5570abce7c516327b2.jpg

 

 

 

Edited by 4630
To add details of the ECS workings and add photos of 1F56.
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I would be interested to know if this is to do with the bearing temperature issues they have been getting or if it is something else.

 

AFAIK the long term idea is 12 diagrams and 1 set in maintenance isn't it? Will there be 6 diagrams a day each on the Scarborough and Middlesbrough trains or will there be some other services in between? Thinking about it it would be about 6 for each wouldn't it.

 

What's everyone's thoughts on the performance of these sets vs the 185s? I don't think they have the same get up and go as the 185s (which is probably just a MU vs loco thing) but they seem to accelerate quite well once they are off.

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