TPE new trains

[Amnesiac]

Forgive my ignorance on the Nova 3 sets, any idea why there were a few stabled just south of Crewe station? I grabbed a couple of blurry pictures from my seat but currently still on the Pendolino! 

[big jim]

As far as I know They are just parked there during lockdown as there is no work for them with the reduced timetable, as it happens I’ve just come from there and another set followed me into the yard for, I assume, storage

[Amnesiac]

Thanks for that! I counted 4 sets as I was passing but it appeared there was only 2 68s. Interesting sight nonetheless. 

[4630]

TransPennine Express has over the last couple of days reduced its Liverpool Lime Street-Newcastle services.  Currently services are cancelled north of York, with all now terminating/starting there.

 

For the most part Nova 1 802/2s are still working these services, although I'm aware that at least one diagram was operated by class 185 earlier this week.

 

Nova 1 set 802202 at Colne Bridge with 1P23, 10.54 Liverpool Lime Street to York...

 

... with 802216 passing a few minutes later in the opposite direction with 9M22, 11.49 York to Liverpool Lime Street.

 

 

 

 

[Hobby]

The Hitachi Trains Grounded thread has posts on this as it's about all the 8xx class of trains and their problems.

 

Just in case you haven't noticed it!!

[4630]

6 minutes ago, Hobby said:

The Hitachi Trains Grounded thread has posts on this as it's about all the 8xx class of trains and their problems.

 

Just in case you haven't noticed it!!

 

I've posted in that thread so, yes, I have noticed it.  Thanks.

[Reorte]

Saw the 68 and set passing over a bridge approaching Stockport from the south this morning, which rather caught be by surprise. Looking on RTT it looks like it's come from Longsight and headed off down to Alderley Edge to reverse and then off back north via the Stockport - Stalybridge line and over the Pennines. I assume it had been off for maintenance and was on its way back empty, but I was a bit surprised that that's the route (just where paths can be found?)

[4630]

2 minutes ago, Reorte said:

Saw the 68 and set passing over a bridge approaching Stockport from the south this morning, which rather caught be by surprise. Looking on RTT it looks like it's come from Longsight and headed off down to Alderley Edge to reverse and then off back north via the Stockport - Stalybridge line and over the Pennines. I assume it had been off for maintenance and was on its way back empty, but I was a bit surprised that that's the route (just where paths can be found?)

 

There have been a couple of training paths used over the past few weeks as follows;

 

5D90 Longsight to Liverpool Lime Street

5D08 Liverpool Lime Street to York

5D60 York to Liverpool Lime Street

5D14 Liverpool Lime Street to Longsight

 

and...

 

5Z68 Longsight to Gascoigne Wood Sidings

5Z95 Gascoigne Wood Sidings to Longsight

 

5D90-5D14 has run most days recently Monday to Friday, and to different times at the weekend.

 

5Z68-5Z95 has been Tuesday and Thursday this week.

 

Here's 5D08 on 20th July 2021 at Deighton, on the outskirts of Huddersfield, with TP06 leading and 68025 'Superb' providing the motive power.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[4630]

I'll post this here, rather than start a separate thread - Hitachi Rail and Angel Trains have announced today plans to create a battery hybrid by replacing one of the three engines in a TPE class 802/2 with batteries.  The intention, following the trial, is to extend the retro fit to 'the wider fleet'.

 

The press release from Hitachi Rail and Angel Trains is here for anyone interested.

Edited November 10, 2021 by 4630
spelling

[frobisher]

Interesting indeed.  If this works out well enough, I think the real gains could be on retrofitting the 9 car 800s with additional batteries in the previously non-engine fitted carriages.

[Reorte]

Excuse the dumb questions that I really feel that I should know the answers to but which a skim read of the press release above didn't answer (well I wouldn't be surprised if it did and I just missed it despite it staring me in the face) - I assume the idea is that the batteries are charged when under the wires to be used off them, or would they be charged via regenerative braking?

[4630]

6 minutes ago, Reorte said:

Excuse the dumb questions that I really feel that I should know the answers to but which a skim read of the press release above didn't answer (well I wouldn't be surprised if it did and I just missed it despite it staring me in the face) - I assume the idea is that the batteries are charged when under the wires to be used off them, or would they be charged via regenerative braking?

 

I don't think it's a dumb question and as you say, the press release doesn't cover that point.

 

I would guess that the full detail will come out eventually, probably via somewhere like Modern Railways magazine.

 

I imagine however that the general answer is probably both via the OHL when the 802/2 is under them and also if necessary via regen braking.  There's enough downhill from Standedge Tunnel to Stalybridge, which under current plans is not going to be wired, to provide a bit of recharge.

 

[Zomboid]

1 hour ago, Reorte said:

Excuse the dumb questions that I really feel that I should know the answers to but which a skim read of the press release above didn't answer (well I wouldn't be surprised if it did and I just missed it despite it staring me in the face) - I assume the idea is that the batteries are charged when under the wires to be used off them, or would they be charged via regenerative braking?

They'll be charged in both ways, but most will come from the OLE.

[rodent279]

1 hour ago, Reorte said:

Excuse the dumb questions that I really feel that I should know the answers to but which a skim read of the press release above didn't answer (well I wouldn't be surprised if it did and I just missed it despite it staring me in the face) - I assume the idea is that the batteries are charged when under the wires to be used off them, or would they be charged via regenerative braking?

"There are naïve questions, tedious questions, ill-phrased questions, questions put after inadequate self-criticism. But every question is a cry to understand the world. There is no such thing as a dumb question" - Carl Sagan
 

I'd guess they'd get most of their charge from the OLE &/or engines while running, and regen braking will keep them topped up.

[62613]

1 hour ago, 4630 said:

 

I don't think it's a dumb question and as you say, the press release doesn't cover that point.

 

I would guess that the full detail will come out eventually, probably via somewhere like Modern Railways magazine.

 

I imagine however that the general answer is probably both via the OHL when the 802/2 is under them and also if necessary via regen braking.  There's enough downhill from Standedge Tunnel to Stalybridge, which under current plans is not going to be wired, to provide a bit of recharge.

 

Both sides of Standedge, no? Depending which way you're going

 

 

[Ron Ron Ron]

7 hours ago, 4630 said:

I'll post this here, rather than start a separate thread - Hitachi Rail and Angel Trains have announced today plans to create a battery hybrid by replacing one of the three engines in a TPE class 802/2 with batteries.  The intention, following the trial, is to extend the retro fit to 'the wider fleet'.

 

The press release from Hitachi Rail and Angel Trains is here for anyone interested.

 

Ironic, considering the original Agility Trains proposal that won the IEP competition and was initially chosen to provide the IET's for the GWML and ECML, included a diesel/battery hybrid version.

There was no pure diesel electric.

Only hybrid, electric and a third bi-mode version combining power units from each of the other two.

This was the Hitachi Super Express Train, later to be classified as the Class 800 series.

 

It was only later, that the DfT asked for the design to be changed to put the diesel power packs, underfloor.

That killed off the original hybrid power plant.

Now they're putting batteries back in.......

 

The original proposed IET (Class 8xx) diesel/battery hybrid generator/power car.......

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

.

[jamie92208]

I was once told that 2 trains coming down Woodhead took one up, as long as there was an ascending train to take the power. If not the excess went into big resistor grids outside the substations. They must have kept the neighbours warm.  Nowadays the battery is available as a power sink.

 

Jamie

Edited November 11, 2021 by jamie92208

[SHMD]

I was once told 7 trains going down, one side of the Pennines, would bring one train up the other side.

No other details/conditions were supplied. (I wasn't an Engineer then - pre collage.)

 

It would be interesting to know more (as I'm an Electrical Engineer).

 

 

Kev.

 

[Zomboid]

I doubt 7 going down would be closely spaced enough to power one going up, with Regen on DC is quite localised because the rectifiers are relatively closely spaced. I don't know what the substation spacing on Woodhead was like, but getting 7 trains been a pair which are all moving fast enough to be generating any power was probably beyond the signalling system.

[SHMD]

20 hours ago, Zomboid said:

I doubt 7 going down would be closely spaced enough to power one going up, with Regen on DC is quite localised because the rectifiers are relatively closely spaced. I don't know what the substation spacing on Woodhead was like, but getting 7 trains been a pair which are all moving fast enough to be generating any power was probably beyond the signalling system.

 

Exactly.

The theoretical minimum number of trains required to haul up one train (of the exact same kind), bears very little to what was operational actually running to "help" offset the costs of powering a train up (any) side.

 

I've said this before, but I think the 76's were pretty unique in having seven different braking systems.

 

 

Kev.

[Gilbert]

5M42 has just been 15 TPE coaches( Nova TP01/3/4) taken to Crewe from Gascoigne Wood.

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:K06183/2021-11-17/detailed

Chris

 

Edited November 17, 2021 by Gilbert

[4630]

On 17/11/2021 at 15:07, Gilbert said:

5M42 has just been 15 TPE coaches( Nova TP01/3/4) taken to Crewe from Gascoigne Wood.

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:K06183/2021-11-17/detailed

Chris

 

 

I posted this image on the Accurascale Mark 5 thread, but in case it's of interest here is 5M42, Gascoigne Wood to Crewe South Yard, approaching Huddersfield with 37800 'Cassiopeia' and TP04, 03 & 01 in tow.

Edited April 6, 2022 by 4630
re-upload photo.

[4630]

I posted this information today as part of a discussion on the Transpennine Electrification : Manchester/Leeds thread, but thought it would be useful here too as a very very early 'Heads Up' -  a tender invitation has been issued for 15-30* Bi-mode locomotives for TransPennine Express.  

 

See here for the tender details.

 

*plus an additional five for Great Western Railway for use on the sleeper service.

[Gilbert]

I  came across this on a news item from Vancouver.......coincidence?

[TomScrut]

On 24/01/2022 at 18:41, 4630 said:

I posted this information today as part of a discussion on the Transpennine Electrification : Manchester/Leeds thread, but thought it would be useful here too as a very very early 'Heads Up' -  a tender invitation has been issued for 15-30* Bi-mode locomotives for TransPennine Express.  

 

See here for the tender details.

 

*plus an additional five for Great Western Railway for use on the sleeper service.

 

Interesting how they want 15-30 to replace what is 14 68s, with 14 coach sets IIRC. I wonder if they are planning on buying more mk5s?