Zomboid Posted May 27, 2016 Share Posted May 27, 2016 I doubt there will be any (new) wires on TPE east of Stalybridge until after GWML is done, and then it'll be on a queue which also includes the MML. It may have been published which will be first, but I don't know. Given that they're proposing to use diesel locos and bi-mode AT300s I doubt it'll be a massive rush, though will probably happen in due course. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodenhead Posted May 27, 2016 Share Posted May 27, 2016 I doubt there will be any (new) wires on TPE east of Stalybridge until after GWML is done, and then it'll be on a queue which also includes the MML. It may have been published which will be first, but I don't know. Given that they're proposing to use diesel locos and bi-mode AT300s I doubt it'll be a massive rush, though will probably happen in due course. I think the TP routes are still up the list in terms of priority - Northern Powerhouse and all that. With regards ordered stock - Bi-mode can easily become Electric only and 68s will be replaced by 88s. The stock plans reflect the transition as the wires extend, the MML will come after that I imagine. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jamie92208 Posted May 27, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 27, 2016 I think the TP routes are still up the list in terms of priority - Northern Powerhouse and all that. With regards ordered stock - Bi-mode can easily become Electric only and 68s will be replaced by 88s. The stock plans reflect the transition as the wires extend, the MML will come after that I imagine.With EGIP and North West moving on to a conclusion surely there is capacity for more than one route at once. so I can see no reason why MML and TPE can't be done at the same time. I think that the current TPE rolling stock strategy sounds to be well thought out and quite pragmatic. Jamie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zomboid Posted May 27, 2016 Share Posted May 27, 2016 With EGIP and North West moving on to a conclusion surely there is capacity for more than one route at once. so I can see no reason why MML and TPE can't be done at the same time. I think that the current TPE rolling stock strategy sounds to be well thought out and quite pragmatic. Jamie I doubt NR will be quite so optimistic, trying to do everything at once is what created the "pause" of last year. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium ColinK Posted May 27, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 27, 2016 I don't know how the Diggle route will be electrified. Obviously it will mean a great deal of engineering work, presumably with quite a few closures. But, when these closures take place, what will people do? The Calder Valley line is busy and doesn't serve all the stations, while rail replacement buses on the M62 will not be popular, especially as the motorway is often congested. Any thoughts? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodenhead Posted May 27, 2016 Share Posted May 27, 2016 I would imagine in the same way they do with the ECML, WCML and GWML - overnight work, strategic closures during Christmas and Easter holiday periods. Good planning will deliver an electrified railway, I would hope lessons have been learnt from the GWML. If they also plough ahead with route diversions to raise line speeds then as new works they would sit alongside the existing route and can be worked on 24/7. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
62613 Posted May 27, 2016 Share Posted May 27, 2016 Where are the engineering problems? Mostly between Stalybridge and Mirfield, I'd say; Stalybridge Tunnel, Scout Tunnel, Greenfield Station bridge, Stanedge Tunnel, Marsden station Bridge, Huddersfield Tunnel, and the Heaton Lodge Junction diveunder. I'd say all would require track lowering, or bridge raising. It's quite a formidable list, isn't it? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jamie92208 Posted May 27, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 27, 2016 (edited) Where are the engineering problems? Mostly between Stalybridge and Mirfield, I'd say; Stalybridge Tunnel, Scout Tunnel, Greenfield Station bridge, Stanedge Tunnel, Marsden station Bridge, Huddersfield Tunnel, and the Heaton Lodge Junction diveunder. I'd say all would require track lowering, or bridge raising. It's quite a formidable list, isn't it?I went to a presentation about this a couple of years ago and they had identified 6 structures that would cause problems. From memory three of them were as follows :- 1. A sewer that crosses the exit from Huddersfield tunnel at the station end. 2. The Heaton Lodge Diveunder 3. The Leeds Ring Road overbridge at Cross Gates. Presumably they will deal with cloasures as they do at present. Either shut Leeds Ravensthorpe and send trains via either Bradford or Healey Mills Or close Huddersfield Staylybridge and then reverse trains at Huddersfield and send them via the Calder Valley. On the Osmondthorpe to Colton Junction section there is a well used diversion via Castleford from Leeds. Jamie Edited May 27, 2016 by jamie92208 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold 4630 Posted May 27, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 27, 2016 (edited) . Edited November 12, 2016 by 4630 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
62613 Posted May 27, 2016 Share Posted May 27, 2016 It's probably been asked before but; is there no way the old tunnels at Stanedge can be reopened while the double-line tunnel is electrified? I believe the method will be similar to that used in the Severn Tunnel i.e. a rail fixed to the tunnel roof. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Reorte Posted May 27, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 27, 2016 I'd heard about 1 and 2 on that list Jamie. There are also several ancient footbridges between Stalybridge and Leeds that I imagine will be replaced (or abolished) in the run up to electrification which is why they're not listed as causing problems. I suppose things like that are a routine part of electrification work, it might be a bit more hassle than bridges that don't need replacing but isn't particularly awkward. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GordonC Posted May 27, 2016 Share Posted May 27, 2016 Special permission has to be sought these day for loco's to cross the high level why is that? does that apply even to things like 91s and HSTs which would be lighter than most diesel locos? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Saunders Posted May 27, 2016 Share Posted May 27, 2016 why is that? does that apply even to things like 91s and HSTs which would be lighter than most diesel locos? The High Level Bridge is only RA 5 (I think it was reduced after the last major refurbishment) and hence most locomotives are banned from crossing! It is all down to axle load! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jamie92208 Posted May 27, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 27, 2016 I'd heard about 1 and 2 on that list Jamie. There are also several ancient footbridges between Stalybridge and Leeds that I imagine will be replaced (or abolished) in the run up to electrification which is why they're not listed as causing problems. There's a piece in the June 2016 issue of Modern Railways (page 20) confirming that "Network Rail is looking to form an alliance to deliver the upgrade of the trans-Pennine route between Leeds and Manchester." A notice has been published in the Official Journal of the European Union (OJEU) as usual and is for work valued between £800 million and £2 billion. In terms of other engineering challenges (as opposed to problems) I'd also add Morley tunnel (1mile, 1609 yards), Uppermill Viaduct, Slaithwaite Viaduct, Crimble Viaduct and lastly Huddersfield Viaduct which is getting on for half a mile long. They're engineering challenges in terms of getting adequate possession time to complete the work. I'm interested to learn what type of OHL will be installed from Stalybridge to Huddersfield, particularly the few miles either side of Standedge Tunnel. I trust that they'll design kit sufficiently robust to suit the winter weather conditions there. The problem with Cross Gates IIRC is that it's a semi elliptical arch and there isn't room for the wires under the shoulders where the current rails run. They don't want to extend the platforms and put the tracks under the centre as that would preclude 4 tracking in the future. To answer the question about Diggle, as far as I know this has been looked at and one of the Northern Hub proposals was to reopen one tunnel as a long passing loop for local services and freights. One of the tunnels is used for road vehicles that follow canal boats through the canal tunnel for safety reasons. I also think that one of the tunnels has had a structural problem and has some sort of brick reinforcement part way through. I'm not sure of the current status of the plans for reopening the tunnels. It looks as if the alliance mentioned above will do this sort of detailed planning for the GRIP3 assessment. Jamie Jamie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GordonC Posted May 27, 2016 Share Posted May 27, 2016 The High Level Bridge is only RA 5 (I think it was reduced after the last major refurbishment) and hence most locomotives are banned from crossing! It is all down to axle load! I'm surprised because I'd have thought that would limit the flexibility at Newcastle of being able to depart the station from either end or turn complete sets around when heading south Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Saunders Posted May 27, 2016 Share Posted May 27, 2016 I'm surprised because I'd have thought that would limit the flexibility at Newcastle of being able to depart the station from either end or turn complete sets around when heading south It is all down to the Cast Iron construction of the Bridge! Mark Saunders Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwin_m Posted May 27, 2016 Share Posted May 27, 2016 The road deck underneath the High Level Bridge was restricted a few years ago (one way and buses only if I recall correctly) and crash barriers erected along both sides of the remaining carriageway. I'm not sure if this is to protect the historic fabric of Stephenson's bridge or because of concern about what might happen to the structure if one of the cast iron members was walloped. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Saunders Posted May 27, 2016 Share Posted May 27, 2016 The road deck underneath the High Level Bridge was restricted a few years ago (one way and buses only if I recall correctly) and crash barriers erected along both sides of the remaining carriageway. I'm not sure if this is to protect the historic fabric of Stephenson's bridge or because of concern about what might happen to the structure if one of the cast iron members was walloped. One way and Buses only plus £30 bridge toll if you misread signs! Mark Saunders Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidB-AU Posted October 27, 2016 Share Posted October 27, 2016 CAF begins production of TransPennine Express coacheshttp://www.railjournal.com/index.php/rolling-stock/caf-begins-production-of-transpennine-express-coaches.html 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Reorte Posted October 28, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 28, 2016 (edited) CAF begins production of TransPennine Express coaches http://www.railjournal.com/index.php/rolling-stock/caf-begins-production-of-transpennine-express-coaches.html Any pictures of these anywhere? The only one on that link looks like a first class interior, any standard ones? Interesting to note that the numbering scheme carries on and that they're being called Mk 5 A (what's the significance of the "A"?) Edited October 28, 2016 by Reorte Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidB-AU Posted October 28, 2016 Share Posted October 28, 2016 This is as far as CAF has got! http://www.railwaygazette.com/uploads/pics/tn_gb-tpe-caf-mark5a-welding-first-coach-20161027.jpg The image in the article is actually an impression of standard class. This is first class! http://www.railwaygazette.com/uploads/pics/tn_gb-tpe-caf-mark5a-first-interior-impression.jpg AFAIK the ones being built for the Caledonian Sleeper are Mark 5 and for TPE are 5A for some reason. Cheers David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jamie92208 Posted October 28, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 28, 2016 This is as far as CAF has got! http://www.railwaygazette.com/uploads/pics/tn_gb-tpe-caf-mark5a-welding-first-coach-20161027.jpg The image in the article is actually an impression of standard class. This is first class! http://www.railwaygazette.com/uploads/pics/tn_gb-tpe-caf-mark5a-first-interior-impression.jpg AFAIK the ones being built for the Caledonian Sleeper are Mark 5 and for TPE are 5A for some reason. Cheers David Presumably the numbering will be that they are a variant of the bodyshells being built for the Sleepers thus the A makes sense. Jamie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Reorte Posted October 28, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 28, 2016 (edited) This is as far as CAF has got! http://www.railwaygazette.com/uploads/pics/tn_gb-tpe-caf-mark5a-welding-first-coach-20161027.jpg The image in the article is actually an impression of standard class. This is first class! http://www.railwaygazette.com/uploads/pics/tn_gb-tpe-caf-mark5a-first-interior-impression.jpg AFAIK the ones being built for the Caledonian Sleeper are Mark 5 and for TPE are 5A for some reason. The first picture looks rather uncomfortable! That first class picture looks very smart indeed. I took the one in the article to be first class because it's actually got a decent number of tables and I thought the seating was 2+1, although looking more closely I see that's just the angle of the picture and it is 2+2. More of this sort of thing (not that I'm bothered about the electronic gimmicks) and I might start liking new stuff on the railways! The only downside I can think of right now is the outside getting painted in Transpennine's garish livery... Edited October 28, 2016 by Reorte Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zomboid Posted October 28, 2016 Share Posted October 28, 2016 First class looks like the seats will line up with the windows. The question is will the standard class seats also line up? I think I already know the answer... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
peanuts Posted October 28, 2016 Share Posted October 28, 2016 Where are the engineering problems? Mostly between Stalybridge and Mirfield, I'd say; Stalybridge Tunnel, Scout Tunnel, Greenfield Station bridge, Stanedge Tunnel, Marsden station Bridge, Huddersfield Tunnel, and the Heaton Lodge Junction diveunder. I'd say all would require track lowering, or bridge raising. It's quite a formidable list, isn't it? local councilors starting to get noisey ( they have been a bit distracted with infighting ) about the impending work on greenfield station bridge as it will effectivley cut saddleworths main artery for several weeks ,lots of work still going on around heyrod for the the substation new pylons being erected as we speak after old ones were refurbished and re wired over the summer Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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