Brent GWR signal query

[Siberian Snooper]

 

Thanks Gentlemen.  You’ve confirmed my guess that the signal was what I’d thought it was, in spite of its positioning.  I must confess that in spite of viewing various photos of it I hadn’t until now noticed the earlier small bracket controlling access to the headshunt/spur.  Nor was this obvious on my very low-res signal box diag. printed out from the internet. (Even the signal numbers are indecipherable on that.)

 

So you’ve given me the confidence to install the signal to the left of the run-round loop rather than on the platform as I’d originally intended.  Squinting down my branch platform from the branch at driver’s eye level one can more than justify this positioning.  The curve on my branch platform is accentuated by a slight curve on the station as a whole, and the island platform building would completely obscure the signal until the last few seconds. (I would show you what I mean in pictures if only I could work out how to add photos to a post – after 2 hours trying I’ve given up for now!  But I guess there must be a section  somewhere on RMWeb that shows you how to use it.  RMWeb for dummies?))

 

The signal itself will be, like the others, a heavily butchered Dapol item.  I’m hoping to do some similar jiggery-pokery on a Dapol bracket signal (when they finally appear) for the other end of the platform (i.e. the branch end of the branch platform), attempting to bury it in the platform without wrecking the station.  Wish me luck!  In the meantime I might position a non-working Ratio item here as a temporary cosmetic measure. 

 

Rob, Rich - yes, Brent is a great prototype - all the operational fun of a BLT and a bit more, but with the option of just watching the trains go by - though my version (Stoke Courtenay, change for Earlsbridge Branch) is not intended as a replica.  I hope to start a layout thread in due course and post some pictures. When I discovered Rob’s ‘Nod to Brent’ thread last year I did no modelling for three or four days while I read avidly through it all.  Great stuff.  And I recently discovered Rich’s thread from February and will follow his layout’s development with interest.

 

 

John C.

 

 

 

 

 

To add Photo's etc. use the "reply with attachments"  it's the button next to post, then there is a dialogue box at the bottom left to browse and add. NB. attachments cannot exceed 1Mb. so you may need to resize your photos, I know I have to.

[Siberian Snooper]

Hi,

That's good to know but probably doesn't help John (checkrail) as he may be doing this in 7mm scale. Mind you it all depends on period, as wooden post signals were modernised to the new-fangled tubular ones. I'm sure I could find out (given time) which if any of the signals at Brent remained as wooden post, not many (if any) I would think and certainly not the Branch Bracket Starter or the down main starter, of which I've seen photos of the tubular replacements.

David Geens kits are in 4mm and the period is the 1930s.

[RailWest]

I ask as it clearly shows a replacement signal (Down Branch to Down Main) with no bracket.

But if you look closely then I believe that you will see it has an elevated shunt disc on a small bracket instead.

[The Stationmaster]

But if you look closely then I believe that you will see it has an elevated shunt disc on a small bracket instead.

 

Yes, very definitely there Chris and in the position as shown on the diagrams in both the SRS series and George Pryer's relevant volume.

[checkrail]

It's funny how some things can be justified prototypically but somehow look wrong on a model.  In the end I decided that the starting signals at both ends of the branch platform should be platform-mounted, and knocked up some cosmetic ones (for now) from Ratio parts.

 

 

This one's at the up end (which would be the down end at Brent!). Placing it beyond the run-round loop (just to the left of the pagoda shed), by analogy with Brent and Par, just didn't look quite right, though had I been building a faithful replica of Brent it would have been.

 

 

And here's the other end, with starting signals for (left) access to the down main line (up at the real Brent) via the single slip across the up main, and (right) starting signal for the Earlsbridge branch.

 

The signal posts have been shortened and the arms repainted to match my repainted Dapol ones - the Ratio arms were a sort of faded pinky-orange colour - and the safety rails were made up from handrail wire.  A bit wonky I know but I'm not the world's greatest at soldering.

 

Hope I'm now mastering this business of posting photos after compressing them, but apologise for any loss of quality.

 

John C.

[RailWest]

They look very nice, but....if you are going to have them actually on the platform (rather than for example at the foot of the ramp), then I would suggest that the weight levers need to be either up on the signal platform or (probably more likely?) hidden below the wooden boarding which would cover the 'pit' in the station platform to accommodate the wire pulleys. Even in pre-H&S days the GWR found that passengers and moving bits of signal machinery did not mix well!

[checkrail]

A good point Chris, for which thanks.  I've recently noticed quite a few pics showing balance weights higher up on bracket signal platforms, and pics of the wooden boarding you mention around the base of platform-mounted signals.  I did twig that the latter was to cover all the mechanical gubbins, so not quite sure why I thought this would exclude the balance weights. Eventual working versions will include said boarding.  Will also be a welcome way to 'make good' the carving up of the platform surface that will be necessary.   A job for another day!

 

John C.

[The Fatadder]

I have spent quite a lot of time looking at photos of the signals at Brent trying to confirm what was upgraded at what point.  As far as I can make out the conversion of square signals to round was done over quite a period of time.

 

I have found one photo which shows no 3 as a square post and no11 as a round (these being the two signals to the plymouth side of Vicarage Road).  Likewise I am sure I have seen a photo with a BR early crest loco next to a square down starter (there is definitely a photo mid way through the signalling upgrade in Model Railway News 1948 showing a square post down starter no 63, while signal 61 is missing completely with the replacement not yet erected.  

 

The gantry signals stayed with square post for a lot longer, with all of them visible in BR era photos making dating very easy.

 

The hardest signal to confirm (which I have not managed to find anything on), is the up starter which was very close to the bridge at the London end.  The square post appears to have been located under the bridge, however I think looking at a photo of 1363 on its way to preservation that it looks like the round post had been relocated further back past the bridge.  It makes me think that the change would have happened in BR days at the same time the bridge was replaced.  

 

Would definitely welcome any thoughts to help get it right.

 

[Stephen Freeman]

As far as I know the upstarter in 1947 was a square post

[The Fatadder]

2 minutes ago, Stephen Freeman said:

As far as I know the upstarter in 1947 was a square post

Thanks, that would certainly tie in with the change being done alongside the bridge replacement.    I think I will go with a square post for both the up and down starters in that case.

 

[Stephen Freeman]

I should add that Robin sent me a photo showing the round post version under the bridge (just), we do know that he should really have a square post one but at that time it wasn't clear.