JSpencer Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 A decoder would add sound as these units have "southern" unit horns and a nice old duga duga compressor under the BSK. You can add those sounds to any 33/1 pulling or pushing it. A plain function chip is not very expensive to control lights, but a sound chip costs as much as the loco attached to it. So I see little point adding sound. I have a 4-CEP running with an MLV, when both are on sound, you don't really notice that there are 2 sound units at play. So I added a second CEP in plain DCC mode between them as I could not see the point of adding another sound chip. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Phatbob Posted June 20, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 20, 2016 so at risk of actually talking about them, rather than price.. Just like Brexit and Dragon's Den.. i'm in... I'm just trying to decide which one to order.. (My main interest is in the steam era.. so upto 68 - [67 in the case of the southern]) Does anyone know when the first units became Blue and Grey ? Ive seen a picture of an all blue one at Clapham Junction with a Std 4 4MT 2-6-4T next to it.. so I'm ok with this variant, but did Blue Grey appear before the end of steam ?.. did steam ever pull them (in either livery).. even as ecs .. that picture of 80140 next to it suggests it may have happened ..? What puzzles me is why these even existed...why not just make as a.n.other 4 car EMU.. and attach a 33/1 for the dead sections as required..wouldnt have needed high juice 4Reps that way ? Blue or Blue and Grey.. that is the question.. They did run alongside steam working in the early days, so you can use a plain blue one. However, being air-brake only, steam locos would not have hauld them. Only air-brake equiped locos could haul them. HTH Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium brushman47544 Posted June 20, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 20, 2016 You can also have a 47 on the front. 47421 was on a cross country train from Poole to Reading where it terminated and ran round to go back to the Southern. 47421+419+425 Reading #1 9-10-80.jpg Presumably Brian this shot of yours is of the same train https://www.flickr.com/photos/brianews/5734523204/in/dateposted/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonathan452 Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 (edited) http://youtu.be/UUT7TUAKegk A slightly different take on a 4TC compartment (from 06min 45sec through to around 12min). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LwltHgRVVcw At least the rolling view outside has some authenticity to it. Edited June 20, 2016 by jonathan452 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertcwp Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 On several occasions I saw that train with the Class 33/1 in the middle - no doubt one of the two inbound trains arrived into Waterloo late. With 12 car platforms I always wondered where they stopped. But then in those days of course one coach off the platform wasn't an issue...or even 4 such as at Pulborough on the down line where the platform held 8 but the Vic-P.Hbr/Bognor via Dorking service was 12 car most of the day. 1700 was Woking, Farnborough, Fleet Basingstoke etc. 1810, which had the same formation, was Farnborough, Fleet, Basingstoke etc. So, all 12-car platforms I think. In those days, the evening peak was very peaked between 1700 and around 1815 then the traffic fell away very quickly. Nowadays, it's more of a prolonged hump with peak extras running until around 1900 and the trains still very busy even then. Today, stopping with some of the train off of the platform isn't an issue for SWT class 444, 450 and 458 units, all of which now have automatic selective door opening. Seen in action daily at Clapham Junction where the fast line platforms cannot take 12 450 or 10 444, and at various places on the Windsor Lines too which can't take 10 458. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium ColinK Posted June 20, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 20, 2016 Conversion challenge, buy a 4TC and convert it into a 3TC. IIRC there was a 5TC too, a more difficult conversion. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian daniels Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 Presumably Brian this shot of yours is of the same train https://www.flickr.com/photos/brianews/5734523204/in/dateposted/ Yes that's the same one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Colin Posted June 20, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 20, 2016 Conversion challenge, buy a 4TC and convert it into a 3TC. IIRC there was a 5TC too, a more difficult conversion. Weren't there some units known as 5-TCB, including buffet cars presumably removed from other units or possibly adapted RMBs? I think they may have been temporary lash-ups that were around in the mid to late 1980s. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold 4630 Posted June 20, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 20, 2016 (edited) . Edited November 12, 2016 by 4630 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NXEA! Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 Ordered the NSE version, despite the fact the layout I'm building is only really fit for EPB's and 2 coach trains. That didn't deter me though, it already looks to be a beauty from Kernow/Bachmann! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Gwiwer Posted June 20, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 20, 2016 Weren't there some units known as 5-TCB, including buffet cars presumably removed from other units or possibly adapted RMBs? I think they may have been temporary lash-ups that were around in the mid to late 1980s. Basically these were very short-term formations regarded as temporary and forced onto NSE by the slightly extended time it took to remove Rep traction motors and fit them to the 442s. There was a plan which would have seen rolling stock diagrams squeezed to the limit as Reps went away to be decommisioned and the guts fitted to the new units but of course things didn't go quite as planned leaving Bournemouth depot critically short of anything useable. Some "formations" and "units" were so temporary that they only appeared on paper and never in reality. The joke at the time among those trying to note down formations through Eastleigh was that you'd have to do "Both up and down because the formation will change before they get back". The same situation gave rise to the equally temporary 8Mig units which along with the 5TCB sets were required to maintain - so far as possible - the advertised catering service. It wasn't always possible. Missing buffet cars and short-formed trains were all too common. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRman Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 Ordered the NSE version, despite the fact the layout I'm building is only really fit for EPB's and 2 coach trains. That didn't deter me though, it already looks to be a beauty from Kernow/Bachmann! That could be an interesting variation: run a 2 TC and class 33/1. In real life that would give some lively running! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRman Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 Some more 4 TC action in this YouTube item about class 33: https://youtu.be/g2WKO0ZEzOM. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.C.M Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 Some more 4 TC action in this YouTube item about class 33: https://youtu.be/g2WKO0ZEzOM. Never mind the TCs just listen to that Crompton thrash. lol Thanks for the link Jeff. All we need now is a REP. Cheers Peter. 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Gwiwer Posted June 21, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 21, 2016 Nice photo there of a single 33/1 leading 8TC on a Waterloo - Swanage (headcode 98) working. Exactly as I remember them though that memory also includes all-blue units. Of passing interest here perhaps is that there were also through summer Saturday trains between Lymington Pier and Waterloo under headcode 97 but these were never formed of TC stock. They were invariably diagrammed for 8Cig borrowed from the Portsmouth direct line which would have run down from London the evening before. The routes via Fareham were not electrified in those days. The working was then Eastleigh - Lymington - Waterloo with no return through service. Owing to the low voltage single-end feed powering the Lymington branch from Brockenhurst these trains were run under very restrictive conditions. No other electric train was allowed in the area of Brockenhurst when they were due to start from Lymington and they were required to run on series only and not to notch up to parallel. That limited the current draw but problems were often reported with very sluggish starts causing late presentation at Brockenhurst, lost pathways and residual delays to the main line if trains were held clear of Brockenhurst. They ran for Isle of Wight ferry traffic rather than any need to offer 8-car trains to Lymington and ceased in the late 1970s IIRC. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stadman Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 Was there any instances of TC's working with anything other than 33/1's or REP's ? Such as other EMU's or locos? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Ian J. Posted June 21, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 21, 2016 Was there any instances of TC's working with anything other than 33/1's or REP's ? Such as other EMU's or locos? Previous mention has been made of working with a 47, and occasionally with 33/0s and 73s. But these would be exceptions. In regular service they would really only be with 33/1s or REPs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
47348scrh Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 Previous mention has been made of working with a 47, and occasionally with 33/0s and 73s. But these would be exceptions. In regular service they would really only be with 33/1s or REPs. And also with NSE 50s on Waterloo - Salisbury's as well from what I remember. Happy days! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Ian J. Posted June 21, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 21, 2016 And also with NSE 50s on Waterloo - Salisbury's as well from what I remember. Happy days! Was that a frequent occurrence? I can't say I remember ever seeing 50s hauling TCs at any time when I was up at Salisbury, it always seemed to be 33/1s. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Abel Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 A slightly different take on a 4TC compartment (from 06min 45sec through to around 12min). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LwltHgRVVcw At least the rolling view outside has some authenticity to it. Indeed, but there is also some superb irony in the fact that the narrator wobbles on about it now being nice and "clean and smoke free" when at 2:31 some banker/smoker discharges a huge mouthful of cigarette smoke into the wonderfully enclosed compartment - ahhh, the delight of secondhand smoke! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eastwestdivide Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 (edited) Was there any instances of TC's working with anything other than 33/1's or REP's ? Such as other EMU's or locos? Railtours might be your best excuse for something different. Have a look on sixbellsjunction.co.uk, search google with 4TC site:sixbellsjunction.co.uk e.g. http://www.sixbellsjunction.co.uk/70s/790120da.htm The Electro Diesel Grice, with a 73/1+4TC+Mk1 RMB+4TC combination (there were a very few Mk1 buffets fitted with SR MU connections, S1872 being one of them). Or this with the preserved 71 http://www.sixbellsjunction.co.uk/90s/920913hr.htm Or this one, that I was on, The Southern Mariner, at London Bridge (73/1+4TC): and at Grain (33/1+4TC): Edited June 21, 2016 by eastwestdivide 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
47423 Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 (edited) Was that a frequent occurrence? I can't say I remember ever seeing 50s hauling TCs at any time when I was up at Salisbury, it always seemed to be 33/1s. Here`a a few 50`s on 4 TC`s. https://www.flickr.com/photos/50576141@N03/5628794880/in/photolist-9DciJr-7tEaWd-idZFag-9zp3BA-nzjD2p-J5jpj1-7qJVx8-HyRxSG-ibkPWa-nA59Yq-b8U6Nx-bEE9K2-dEriZY-7qQoWq-niUrSp-niH5JC-nDRkG8-nuBCK4-7ubM1i-8Ferkx-7FJpFq-8F1XPB-7qWphq-7x6bZT-8DSJVi-7vbJht-7qPuQY-7qKXoe-dNbxeQ-rabhXd-GqzAmt-kRMHbB-Hp7sm4-CCTDgG-HkWXLz-GVFWqh-bc7XrH-7Z2qik-73gsdx-o3XQMt-HeRPQB-Gqw2Zv-pyn6St-oKDhFV https://www.flickr.com/photos/gbrailphotos/5671770377/in/photolist-9DciJr-7tEaWd-idZFag-9zp3BA-nzjD2p-J5jpj1-7qJVx8-HyRxSG-ibkPWa-nA59Yq-b8U6Nx-bEE9K2-dEriZY-7qQoWq-niUrSp-niH5JC-nDRkG8-nuBCK4-7ubM1i-8Ferkx-7FJpFq-8F1XPB-7qWphq-7x6bZT-8DSJVi-7vbJht-7qPuQY-7qKXoe-dNbxeQ-rabhXd-GqzAmt-kRMHbB-Hp7sm4-CCTDgG-HkWXLz-GVFWqh-bc7XrH-7Z2qik-73gsdx-o3XQMt-HeRPQB-Gqw2Zv-pyn6St-oKDhFV https://www.flickr.com/photos/75514026@N03/8311246414/in/photolist-9DciJr-7tEaWd-idZFag-9zp3BA-nzjD2p-J5jpj1-7qJVx8-HyRxSG-ibkPWa-nA59Yq-b8U6Nx-bEE9K2-dEriZY-7qQoWq-niUrSp-niH5JC-nDRkG8-nuBCK4-7ubM1i-8Ferkx-7FJpFq-8F1XPB-7qWphq-7x6bZT-8DSJVi-7vbJht-7qPuQY-7qKXoe-dNbxeQ-rabhXd-GqzAmt-kRMHbB-Hp7sm4-CCTDgG-HkWXLz-GVFWqh-bc7XrH-7Z2qik-73gsdx-o3XQMt-HeRPQB-Gqw2Zv-pyn6St-oKDhFV https://www.flickr.com/photos/39687991@N07/14211829211/in/photolist-9DciJr-7tEaWd-idZFag-9zp3BA-nzjD2p-J5jpj1-7qJVx8-HyRxSG-ibkPWa-nA59Yq-b8U6Nx-bEE9K2-dEriZY-7qQoWq-niUrSp-niH5JC-nDRkG8-nuBCK4-7ubM1i-8Ferkx-7FJpFq-8F1XPB-7qWphq-7x6bZT-8DSJVi-7vbJht-7qPuQY-7qKXoe-dNbxeQ-rabhXd-GqzAmt-kRMHbB-Hp7sm4-CCTDgG-HkWXLz-GVFWqh-bc7XrH-7Z2qik-73gsdx-o3XQMt-HeRPQB-Gqw2Zv-pyn6St-oKDhFV https://www.flickr.com/photos/rodneyhowe/24046313594/in/photolist-9DciJr-7tEaWd-idZFag-9zp3BA-nzjD2p-J5jpj1-7qJVx8-HyRxSG-ibkPWa-nA59Yq-b8U6Nx-bEE9K2-dEriZY-7qQoWq-niUrSp-niH5JC-nDRkG8-nuBCK4-7ubM1i-8Ferkx-7FJpFq-8F1XPB-7qWphq-7x6bZT-8DSJVi-7vbJht-7qPuQY-7qKXoe-dNbxeQ-rabhXd-GqzAmt-kRMHbB-Hp7sm4-CCTDgG-HkWXLz-GVFWqh-bc7XrH-7Z2qik-73gsdx-o3XQMt-HeRPQB-Gqw2Zv-pyn6St-oKDhFV Edited June 21, 2016 by 47423 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eastwestdivide Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 ...What puzzles me is why these even existed...why not just make as a.n.other 4 car EMU.. and attach a 33/1 for the dead sections as required..wouldnt have needed high juice 4Reps that way ?... That's an interesting question, and gives rise to all sorts of speculation. Power to weight ratio with the available locos (33s) might have been a factor, wikipedia showing a weight penalty of around 15t between a 4CIG and a 4TC, and the 33s were required to haul/push two units (8 cars) at time. Perhaps if higher-powered locos had been readily available... It would have had benefits for standardisation of the fleet through. Another speculative option, particularly in view of the "bi-mode" decisions for the current order of IEP trains for the GW (electro-diesel in Southern terms), would have been an electro-diesel MU, but given the DEMU designs of the period, I suspect the loss of perhaps a coach length of accommodation all the way to Waterloo, and the lack of power of DEMUs of the time, that might be even less of an attractive option than 33+4CIG. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
southernelectric Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 This DCC decoder business has me slightly confused. If you don't want sound, do you need to fit a decoder if you use DCC? If there are switches to control the internal lights and the front and tail headcode blinds directionally, other than to avoid using the switches, what does the decoder add? I was wondering the same thing, what exactly is the purpose of the decoder if the unit has switches for lighting (internal + headcode blinds)? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 I was wondering the same thing, what exactly is the purpose of the decoder if the unit has switches for lighting (internal + headcode blinds)? If you run on DC, the lights would only come on when a current is applied to the track - as such, the switches are most likely for the benefit of DC users. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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