Cooper craft - Cautionary notes for customers - Its fate and thoughts on an alternative

[Dazzler Fan]

All this is unfortunate, I am in the US with a box full of
Cooper Craft kits I brought out here with me over 20 years

ago. I am clearing down my collection.

 

I would put them on eBay.co.uk, but I think the Royal Mail

and HMC&E would kill the situation for UK Collectors.

 

Noel

[chris p bacon]

All this is unfortunate, I am in the US with a box full of

Cooper Craft kits I brought out here with me over 20 years

ago. I am clearing down my collection.

 

I would put them on eBay.co.uk, but I think the Royal Mail

and HMC&E would kill the situation for UK Collectors.

 

Noel

 

Do you not know someone in the UK you could send them in bulk to so that when sold they'd be posted from here ?

 

I'll PM you.

[Spitfire2865]

All this is unfortunate, I am in the US with a box full of

Cooper Craft kits I brought out here with

ago. I am clearing down my collection.

 

 

Noel

I might be interested in some, as I am in the USA. Edited June 24, 2017 by Spitfire2865

[Horsetan]

All this is unfortunate, I am in the US with a box full of

Cooper Craft kits I brought out here with me over 20 years

ago. I am clearing down my collection.

 

Any BR Mk.1 coach kits in that little lot?

[BlackRat]

I've got a couple of the corridor second kits somewhere and a brake, I'll have to dig them out and eBay them!

[billbedford]

All this is unfortunate, I am in the US with a box full of

Cooper Craft kits I brought out here with me over 20 years

ago. I am clearing down my collection.

 

I would put them on eBay.co.uk, but I think the Royal Mail

and HMC&E would kill the situation for UK Collectors.

 

 

Why would HMRC be involved? You presumably paid VAT when you bought them, so they would count as private sales of second hand goods. And presumably the carrier would be USPS rather than Royal Mail.

[LooseHead]

Customs duty and VAT is charged on imported second-hand goods, based on a 'fair market value' (presumably the E-Bay selling price in this case, since that has clearly established the market). Of course, if you have the original sales receipts available (and the kits weren't purchased VAT-free for export) you might be able to argue otherwise ...

Edited June 26, 2017 by LooseHead

[Joseph_Pestell]

Mr Coopercraft was at Railwells yesterday with his stand. Bit of a jumble sale really with all sorts of bits and bobs from the various ranges but hardly any complete kits. Still, plenty of "assets" there by way of stock for anyone who wants to pursue a claim against him.

 

First time that I had encountered him in person. He does not make a great impression.

[John Tomlinson]

Good nonetheless to know that the proprietor is still in business, and thanks for posting. Those valuable kits haven't quite vanished into a black hole - yet.

 

John

[Phil Parker]

Any BR Mk.1 coach kits in that little lot?

 

Hereford MOdel Centre had a couple in a cabinet a couple of weeks ago. Might be worth a ring.

[chris p bacon]

Good nonetheless to know that the proprietor is still in business, and thanks for posting. Those valuable kits haven't quite vanished into a black hole - yet.

 

John

 

I think to all intents and purposes they've gone.

 

I'm looking to just produce my own now and not rely on others.

[Colin_McLeod]

How to win customers and influence people.

[Joseph_Pestell]

I think to all intents and purposes they've gone.

 

I'm looking to just produce my own now and not rely on others.

Plenty of ex-Kirk LNER coach sides on view. Even if you have to build the rest yourself, these must be a worthwhile timesaver at a couple of quid each.

[chris p bacon]

Plenty of ex-Kirk LNER coach sides on view. Even if you have to build the rest yourself, these must be a worthwhile timesaver at a couple of quid each.

 

It's some of the wagon kits for me, the coaches aren't such an issue.

[johnarcher]

It's some of the wagon kits for me, the coaches aren't such an issue.

Me too. Are they or their bits on his stand at shows too?

[Guy Rixon]

Me too. Are [the wagon kits] or their bits on his stand at shows too?

 

 

Didn't spot any at Railwells, but I wasn't looking closely.

 

It's recently been noticed that POWSides are selling the ex-Slaters kits of MR wagons, as well as the ex-Slaters PO wagons.

[Jol Wilkinson]

Didn't spot any at Railwells, but I wasn't looking closely.

 

It's recently been noticed that POWSides are selling the ex-Slaters kits of MR wagons, as well as the ex-Slaters PO wagons.

Guy,

 

I think they are still the Slaters PO kits. I believe the arrangement was for CC to market these, as part of a reciprocal agreement with Slaters, covering 4mm and 7mm kits. Whether or not he would actually been able to have manufactured them is questionable, given the situation with the other plastic kits in the range. 

 

It may be that the POWSides contract was outside that deal.

 

Jol

[Joseph_Pestell]

Me too. Are they or their bits on his stand at shows too?

There were plenty of wagon bits, at least so far as bodywork goes. But I did not look closely enough to be able to tell you what exactly.

[chrisf]

 

It's recently been noticed that POWSides are selling the ex-Slaters kits of MR wagons, as well as the ex-Slaters PO wagons.

 

Hang on a minute.  Slaters and CC surely cannot both be making these kits, so who is?  I'm confused.

 

Chris

[Jol Wilkinson]

Hang on a minute.  Slaters and CC surely cannot both be making these kits, so who is?  I'm confused.

 

Chris

Chris,

 

manufacturing the 4mm may still be done by Slaters. I believe that the deal probably was for CC was to market them, while Slaters presumably got to market the 7mm CC  kits.

 

Slaters are now better known for their 7mm products and CC were more involved with 4mm, especially when they took over the Ian Kirk, Mallard, etc. stuff. So that would seem to make such a marketing deal sensible, but the problems with moulding the products CC took over seems to have rather undermined all that.

 

The CC website still carries the same explanation for non availability of CC, Ian Kirk, Mailcoach and Slaters kits being down to problems with his moulding machine (now ongoing for a very long time), but I don't think he ever got the Slaters moulds.

 

Of course this is conjecture, we don't know the real truth and probably never will. I don't see things ever moving forward with the products for which CC have the moulds .

 

Jol

[brian777999]

I thought I had an email from Slaters years ago saying that they now had nothing to do with the 4mm kits as everything had been sold to CC. My memory could be wrong of course but if they did still have the moulds then surely they would have stepped in to do something about the current situation ?

[Graham456]

I thought I had an email from Slaters years ago saying that they now had nothing to do with the 4mm kits as everything had been sold to CC. My memory could be wrong of course but if they did still have the moulds then surely they would have stepped in to do something about the current situation ?

The last few posts hint at the problem and why money is being spent on lawyers not the new moulding machine, which as a gardener not a lawyer paul can't afford

 

At Wells there were a lot of sides and ends for the GWR four plank that has been discussed a bit on here just, got to cut out a floor and I can use up some left over solebars to keep me going ....FOR NOW

[Armstrong440]

I have little experience of building Slaters' kits, but have worked my way through a good fifty or more CC kits in my time.  Yes they were groundbreaking when they were first issued, and the detail in the mouldings is still good by today's standards.  But the opens lacked interior detail or full interior depth, and the vans represented relatively uncommon wagons.  Many improvements - both aesthetic and functional - could be made, with varying degrees of difficulty, to produce models which would eventually satisfy even the most demanding of tastes.  So they were good, but certainly not without their flaws.

 

And now Coopercraft and Slaters 4mm are moribund.  A great loss to the hobby.  It seems that the time has come to draw a line under this episode of modelling history and to look to the future.

 

Can we do without the kits we've lost?  Or will there be a move to replace them in some form or another?  If so, and assuming the old moulds are life expired, or otherwise unavailable, and development needs to start anew from square one, will the kits be whitemetal or resin, etchings, injection mouldings or 3D prints?   What do people think should happen?  What would you like to see happen?  What do people think the market will support?

[Steamport Southport]

If the kits coming from POW sides are any reflection on the state of the Slaters moulds* then we have nothing to worry about the quality. By all accounts they are as good as ever.

 

 

Phoenix have now reissued the Ian Kirk Southern Railway kits and I believe they are good quality as well. They're of a similar age as the LNER coach kits.

 

 

So I reckon the problem is down to the owner, for whatever reason, rather than the actual moulds/models. Now if Phoenix are buying up any more ranges......

 

 

 

* Wherever they are getting them from

 

 

 

Jason

Edited August 18, 2017 by Steamport Southport

[brian777999]

If you are modelling Midland or LMS then these kits are almost essential. I don't think we are quite there yet with 3D printing are we ? Injection moulds are still the way to go ; white metal kits have their problems and can be tricky to put together. I have built a few white metal kits and I am in no rush to repeat the experience ! I have not built a resin kit so I cannot comment.

 

I thought 3D printing would have progressed to the stage where you could just scan an existing model and then print it out. Apparently we are nowhere near that with the scanning side of things.