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Exhibition Barriers


JeremyC
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I suspect the lights wouldn't last long and would be a health and safety hazard. 

 

Just keep the barrier back a bit, make sure the layout is at a level visible to the public, too high is a real pain and turn off, and just supply say one step stool for young children (large layouts just dot a few about the length) , a longer platform will be a pain particularly for the less abled who need to lean on the barrier for support to rest their backs while they stand and watch etc. If you're worried about the stool going AWOL attach it to the barrier !

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On 22/04/2021 at 12:09, Phil Parker said:

 

Who is providing these? If it's the layout owner, fine, but if (as is normal) it's the club, moving them to the show is going to take a really big van, and demand quite some storage space in the clubroom.

I was thinking a foot rest using exactly the same design as your barriers at L&W, Phil, So all you'd need extra is two uprights off the same base - one long (as at present) and one short stub, set a few inches in front of it, to support the 'lower barrier' on which children could stand. You have already stressed how strong they were and how much weight they support. Ie not big and just a few extra horizontals the same as the rest, and only for the parts of a layout that get most crowded.

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On 22/04/2021 at 15:16, CUCKOO LINE said:

 

make sure the layout is at a level visible to the public, too high is a real pain and turn off

I have no fixed views about height, but I know many people really like layouts mounted higher so they don't have to bend over to get eyes to track level and view it as if it were real. Not that many people have helicopters to fly over real stations. :-)

 

There's always two answers for every question. Depends, I guess, on the layout and who it is aimed for.

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34 minutes ago, hicksan said:

I have no fixed views about height, but I know many people really like layouts mounted higher so they don't have to bend over to get eyes to track level and view it as if it were real. Not that many people have helicopters to fly over real stations. :-)

 

There's always two answers for every question. Depends, I guess, on the layout and who it is aimed for.

At 5ft 2in I hate very high layouts as I can’t see them. And how about children and folk who are confined to a wheelchair?  It’s a bit pretentious to decide your layout is so good that it must be seen at eye level by people of average or above average height only.

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1 hour ago, hicksan said:

I was thinking a foot rest using exactly the same design as your barriers at L&W, Phil, So all you'd need extra is two uprights off the same base - one long (as at present) and one short stub, set a few inches in front of it, to support the 'lower barrier' on which children could stand. You have already stressed how strong they were and how much weight they support. Ie not big and just a few extra horizontals the same as the rest, and only for the parts of a layout that get most crowded.

 

Barrier erection tends to be a bit last minute at a show. Adding a need to assess each layout individually and work out where the busy bits are likely to be, then bolting on some extra supports isn't going to work unless the show is very well supplied with volunteers. There's also the added pressure to make and transport even more bits of wood to and from the show.

 

I like the idea in theory, but can see a load of practical problems with implementation.

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1 minute ago, Chris M said:

At 5ft 2in I hate very high layouts as I can’t see them.

I've never seen a layout mounted 5ft high. 4ft perhaps. I tend to prefer 1m personally. It usually depends on the skyline perspective on the back scene - to look 'right' that should be roughly at eye level (as per reality). If people model a low skyline then the layout needs to be viewed at track level. I would say it is the responsibility of the exhibition manager to ensure all tastes/preferences are catered for within the scope of the exhibition. I don't begrudge the space given to Thomas the Tank engine kiddie layouts 2 foot off the ground either: as long as there is something for everyone.

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12 minutes ago, hicksan said:

I've never seen a layout mounted 5ft high. 4ft perhaps. I tend to prefer 1m personally. It usually depends on the skyline perspective on the back scene - to look 'right' that should be roughly at eye level (as per reality). If people model a low skyline then the layout needs to be viewed at track level. I would say it is the responsibility of the exhibition manager to ensure all tastes/preferences are catered for within the scope of the exhibition. I don't begrudge the space given to Thomas the Tank engine kiddie layouts 2 foot off the ground either: as long as there is something for everyone.

 

Southampton S4 group used to have a wonderful model of Winchester Chesil. Unfortunately, the nature of the prototype (in a cutting) meant that to see it you needed to be 6' plus.

 

Exhibition layouts really need to be designed (or prototypes selected) where the ground in front of the tracks falls away. That way, the track can be at 4'6 or even 5' above floor level but still seen by small people.

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I have probably posted this before, quick and simple distancers (are they barriers?) can be made from dowel, rope and the cone shaped springs that go behind doors. Springy, and not going to injure anyone, but DO make sure the public end has a bigger blob on it so that it is unlikely to damage a child’s eye. Upright post and rope distancers are available commercially too like you see in banks etc., , possibly look more professional, but take up more space in the car/van.
 

I got the idea from a layout the Gravetts were showing back in the 1980s so don’t claim the idea. They take up very little space to pack and if you get to an exhibition without barriers you have then ready to fit. The obvious proviso is when you submit your layout depth you quote two figures, (1) total depth required if show does not have barriers and (2) if hall is barriered.

 

Edited by john new
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Layout height is a long-running bone of contention that isn't going to be settled here!

 

That said, my preference is normally for something that's around midriff to chest height, so I can see the overview from a standing position but I can lean down to get an eye level view if I want. That tends to work best for most "normal" layouts, particularly large ones. But I don't have a problem with layouts present at eye level so long as - and this is the key consideration here - they are designed and built with eye level viewing in mind. That is, they have to be an almost theatrical presentation where the sightlines are an integral part of the construction.

 

I've seen some very good eye level layouts at exhibitions, and when done well it's a very impressive visual effect. But simply jacking up a layout to eye level without giving any thought to how that affects typical sightlines makes things worse, not better. I have, unfortunately, seen more than a few layouts at exibitions that were just too high to be easily viewable, and where an eye level presentation really didn't work for that design.

 

At the other extreme, though, I saw a layout once at a show that was really low - around waist height - and, oddly enough, I really liked it. Although the viewing angle had a bit of a train set feel, the "aerial view" perspective worked for that particular design.

 

I think that, fundamentally, the layout height has to be part of the planning, and the design of the scenery has to take into account the sightlines. Get it right, and any height will work. Get it wrong, and fiddling with the height won't fix it.

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1 hour ago, Phil Parker said:

 

Barrier erection tends to be a bit last minute at a show. Adding a need to assess each layout individually and work out where the busy bits are likely to be, then bolting on some extra supports isn't going to work unless the show is very well supplied with volunteers. There's also the added pressure to make and transport even more bits of wood to and from the show.

 

I like the idea in theory, but can see a load of practical problems with implementation.

 

Completely agree with barriers being the last thing to be added at a show. Not every layout is erected the night before, some only arrive on the Saturday Morning. You can't put the barriers in place until all the layouts are present and more or less erected.

 

Adding more complexity to the Barriers would only serve to cause more issues I feel. Especially as many shows rely on barriers provided by the venue or hired in from other sources.

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9 hours ago, LNERandBR said:

 

Completely agree with barriers being the last thing to be added at a show. Not every layout is erected the night before, some only arrive on the Saturday Morning. You can't put the barriers in place until all the layouts are present and more or less erected.

 

Adding more complexity to the Barriers would only serve to cause more issues I feel. Especially as many shows rely on barriers provided by the venue or hired in from other sources.

Do you do this at your exhibition? I doubt it as most shows try to get the majority of barriers in place before they go home the niggt before the show. Why?

It takes time and people to do it all. And, if it is rushed, can lead to accidents and potential damage.

 

We have our barriers in place ( with layout "carry in" areas) on Friday evening. The barrier plan is sorted as part of the floor planning process. The barriers are set out.. the layout owners decide how close to the barrier they want the layout to be.

 

The barriers are set at a height where a child on a step stool can see either over orvunder it, the tops are planed and varnished wood so you can, as a spectator, lean on it, small children can be held sittingbon it (although we discourage this to avoid "swinging leg damage".

 

At the end of the show the barriers are down and out of the way to let layout owners to take their layouts down with space to spare.

 

We have been doing shows for a long, long time and have tried various methods of installing/removing barriers.. the way we do it now works for us.

 

Baz

 

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15 minutes ago, hicksan said:

Going back to the question I ACTUALLY asked: operators in front or behind the layout?

Upto the layout owner and operators. Grantham has the engine shed operator outside the layout, the rest are inside. The operator sits down to keep a fairly lowish profile button answer questions asked by other attendees.

 

I have operated a couple of layouts where you operate out front..at the Fiddle Yard end do very rarely get in  front of the scenic side of the layout.

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15 minutes ago, hicksan said:

Going back to the question I ACTUALLY asked: operators in front or behind the layout?

At the side of the layout is my preference. In front and you get in the way of paying visitors and behind you are too far away to chat nicely.

One thing about chatting to visitors. If there are others watching the layout and only one operator then that operator should always concentrate on operating rather than talking. If nobody else is watching then that’s a different matter.

 

I’ve let young visitors  drive my layouts that are operated from the side many times. Never a problem and they are always happy. I’ve only ever had a couple of people lean on the layout. They were quickly and firmly told not to. This is where barriers that folk can lean on are very useful.

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21 minutes ago, hicksan said:

Going back to the question I ACTUALLY asked: operators in front or behind the layout?

Depends on the type of layout.

 

In front is good for terminus/fiddleyard layout. Behind for everything else.

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For several years I helped exhibit a large layout that had one of its operating positions in front of the layout.  A common problem I came up against was spectators assuming that a control position on their side of the layout was for them to use.  More than once I had someone (usually in the 11 - 14 age bracket, occasionally a pushy parent) demand I hand over the controller and on one memorable occasion a particularly obnoxious pre-teen got stroppy then abusive when I politely but firmly refused.

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My preference is behind the layout but, given the type of layouts I build, if I tried operating from the front no-one would be able to see anything. :D

 

steve

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Yep!  Seen that, too.

A high-mounted, letter-box type layout with an operator of about 6'4" and built like weightlifter with shoulders so wide he probably had to twist slightly to get through doorways.  He spent the whole show stood four-square in front of the layout, its extreme ends all that was visible if you peered around his bulging biceps.

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1 minute ago, mike morley said:

Yep!  Seen that, too.

A high-mounted, letter-box type layout with an operator of about 6'4" and built like weightlifter with shoulders so wide he probably had to twist slightly to get through doorways.  He spent the whole show stood four-square in front of the layout, its extreme ends all that was visible if you peered around his bulging biceps.

 

Wasn’t me. I ain’t that big!

 

steve

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On 25/04/2021 at 10:43, hicksan said:

Going back to the question I ACTUALLY asked: operators in front or behind the layout?

 

For me - behind. You are only 2ft plus barrier gap from the viewers. Operating in front would mean the layout is further away.  I can stand behind the layout and chat to people quite happily, I don't need to rubbing against them to do this, and they don't need a tall, fat bloke getting in the way of seeing the model.

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On 25/04/2021 at 07:52, Barry O said:

We have our barriers in place ( with layout "carry in" areas) on Friday evening. The barrier plan is sorted as part of the floor planning process. The barriers are set out.. the layout owners decide how close to the barrier they want the layout to be.

 

We have been doing shows for a long, long time and have tried various methods of installing/removing barriers.. the way we do it now works for us.

 

Baz

 

 

Its amazing how fast the barrier can be put up on the Friday afternoon if there are no time constraints and with less pressure to avoid mistakes (free teas and coffees help). Roll on the last Friday in October, where are the gloves?

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On 25/04/2021 at 07:52, Barry O said:

Do you do this at your exhibition? I doubt it as most shows try to get the majority of barriers in place before they go home the niggt before the show. Why?

It takes time and people to do it all. And, if it is rushed, can lead to accidents and potential damage.

 

We have our barriers in place ( with layout "carry in" areas) on Friday evening. The barrier plan is sorted as part of the floor planning process. The barriers are set out.. the layout owners decide how close to the barrier they want the layout to be.

 

The barriers are set at a height where a child on a step stool can see either over orvunder it, the tops are planed and varnished wood so you can, as a spectator, lean on it, small children can be held sittingbon it (although we discourage this to avoid "swinging leg damage".

 

At the end of the show the barriers are down and out of the way to let layout owners to take their layouts down with space to spare.

 

We have been doing shows for a long, long time and have tried various methods of installing/removing barriers.. the way we do it now works for us.

 

Baz

 

The barrier plan is prepared in advance and the barriers laid out on the floor to the plan usually before any layouts have arrived let alone be erected.  The barrier team then go around an then build them up and make any adjustments,  generally finishing by 3pm Friday afternoon.

Planning and teamwork 

Nick 

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On operating at the front, I prefer operating from the back, but one layout is 5' deep and being N gauge if something comes off it is a long walk, so ideally there is one of the crew perched on a bar stool at the front to deal with derailments and chat to the public without shouting...

 

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On 25/04/2021 at 10:43, hicksan said:

Going back to the question I ACTUALLY asked: operators in front or behind the layout?

 

*

Speaking from personal experience -

 

(i)   over more than a quarter of a century,

 

(ii)   with my seven different relatively small layouts,

 

(iii)   at over two-hundred exhibitions,

 

(iv)   and covering more than three-hundred days

 

- the answer is from the front every time.

 

With display at a relatively high level, and an operating position to the side (in front of a fiddle yard) one has a similar view to that of the public. Discussion and the answering of questions are simply a matter of turning a little to the person - or indeed not turning if continuing to operate at that moment. It is also the case that the public enjoy seeing the operator at work, noting details of the timetable sequence, fiddle yard use, etc. For this reason the good design and presentation of the whole layout (including the said fiddle yard and operating space) are important.

 

 

CP

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