Exhibition Barriers

[Phil Parker]

I recall that at show where no barriers were present, a large gentleman came up and leaned with both elbows onto the station forecourt!

I am wondering if the remedy is something to do with layout height. ie build the layout at a height that forces the un-barried visitor to not lean on, touch or rest their mug of tea/ rucksack onto the scenic top.

 

I had a gentleman place a piece of paper on the roadway on Ruston Quays. I just managed to stop him writing on it, and marking the carboard surface underneath, but learned I needed to provide something to keep people back a bit. The really anoying thing was that he couldn't see why using my layout as a writing surface was a bad idea...

 

I'd agree with Kelly though that more height isn't the solution. I've had people hang from the fascia and lean on the top of a fiddle yard so you'd need something pretty amazing to stop all that. Layout height is the never ending topic but I'd be loath to go higher than a wheelchair users eye level. Most people can bend down a bit if they want the eye-level view, even if it does mean backsides stuck out in the aisle.

 

I don't think it's barriers that make people congregate and chat either. Some just like to clutter up the layout front and gas to their mates. In a crowded pub, they are the ones who can't understand that people want to be served and they should just get out of the way of the bar after collecting their drinks. One day I will be in power and bar hanging will be punishable by being forced to buy the round I was getting in.

[roundhouse]

Even with barriers we have had people bash their heads on the lighting pelmet but last year I raised it by about an inch and a half and that hasn't happened since. Did have on bloke at a family type do who tried to hang off our lightweight pelmet but luckily he moved quickly when he realised it wouldn't take his weight and it didn't break.

[brightspark]

And then you stop it being visible to the disabled or children. So not a very ideal solution, but then neither are barriers.

 

I wasn't necessarily thinking higher, it could be lower. What I was wondering was is there a convenient height for leaning on that layout builders can avoid?

Do layouts built high or low get the same problems?

 

Just a thought.

[Geoff Endacott]

I wasn't necessarily thinking higher, it could be lower. 

 

Shin height spikes?

 

Geoff Endacott

[mike morley]

is there a convenient height for leaning on that layout builders can avoid?

.

 

The theory is good, but in practice a layout that is too high for adult elbows to lean on will be the perfect height for juvenile fingers to hook over in order to haul themselves up enough to see the layout, and vice versa.

 

I have also experienced Roundhouse's problem with someone hanging off the lighting pelmet, although to be fair it was a one-off and (I think) an unconscious act as he stopped the moment I asked him and was extremely apologetic.

[C.A.T.Ford]

I've never understood the idea that barriers aren't provided so people can get a closer look. Most are no more than a foot away from the front of the layout. Lean on them and you can rub your nose on the layout.

 

How much closer does anyone need to get?

I once had a chap lean over Batcombe and get hit in the side of the head by an incoming train. Fortunately it was a heavy cast metal kit loco and he must have seen stars. My experience is that older males are much worse than children and that the only thing that will keep them off a layout is a 10 inch R.S.J.

[298]

Somewhere in the top 10 of 298's "Layouts that I'll build one day" is something small on ironing board legs that can be raised up and down to suit different viewing heights. I've actually got SWMBO's ironing board lined up, I taped a fiver into it about three years ago, and its still there now.

 

We once had someone use the front of a layout to lean on, with her arms folded. The long suffering Peco fence finally succumbed but I wasn't going to ask her to move -she looked like she could quite easily flatten anyone in a pub fight...

[ELTEL]

Shin height spikes?

 

Geoff Endacott

What a great idea !!!!!!

 

Confirm that the Chilterns Stafford store has barriers, mains leads and exhibition banner for the free use of CMRA Members.

 

Terry Robinson

Stafford Railway Circle

[Barry O]

we have used our own barriers since the days when our show was in the Corn Exchange in Leeds. These have metal uprights with largish wooden feet and a "T" shaped girder wooden bar bolted to each pair of metal legs (special corner "joints" are provided).

 

These are set up  away from the layouts by about 2' (never less than 18"). The legs are braced to add strength and support.  Once bolted together these are  very strong.

 

Small children can be "sat" on them and lots of people "lean" on them, and don't stop people in wheelchairs form seeing over them.. indeed last year on elady thanked us as she could rest her head on it from her chair and got a "wonderful" view  just like when she was a child.

 

Baz

[straxman]

Perhaps I'm in the minority here but I do not like barriers in front of my exhibits (I have 6 that currently 'do the rounds') and the photographer in me hates perspex even more. I find that most people can read the notices that ask them not to touch. The notices state: "Please, do not touch". When someone does touch, I ask them politely not to, and most of them apologise. Treat the public with respect and you will get it returned, the obnoxious ones soon go away (I ain't a pretty looking guy). I have a couple of 7mm narrow gauge layouts and when people touch I offer them a kit/scratch built loco to hold (with my hands very close by) and tell them that it will break their toes if it falls on them...... Most are supprised by the weight and then stand back. My fellow operators and me always interact with the public as we probably have the 'gift of the gab' and its this interaction that seems to lead to someone taking more interest in the layout and striking up a conversation. Something that barriers seem to inhibit. In all my 30+ years of exhibiting I have only had one loco (EM gauge kit built) take a 'dive off' a layout. I put it back together and it still runs fine, probably more by luck than judgement. 

 

I have also been behind a layout when a chap tripped over the base of a barrier and then fell full weight into the front of the layout. The layout baseboard suffered damage as the guy pushed this into the layout with his weight behind it......... I managed to hold onto the layout to stop it crashing to the floor which would have probably caused even more damage. I would also like to have an 'escape route' and  I don't see barriers affording me such luxuries should the need arise. In an emergency I want to get out, stuff the equipment, If I'm dead I don't need it................. If I survive............ I can make more.................

 

So for me. No barriers.............ever................

[roundhouse]

As I have mentioned before, I prefer barriers but this weekend's GCR show we did not have barriers. There were thousands visiting over the three days, many Modellers and non modellers. No one touched the layout whilst I was behind it.

[Geoff Endacott]

So for me. No barriers.............ever................

 

Do you indemnify the exhibition organisers against any loss or damage? You may find that not having barriers will invalidate their insurance policy.

 

Geoff Endacott

[straxman]

Do you indemnify the exhibition organisers against any loss or damage? You may find that not having barriers will invalidate their insurance policy.

 

Geoff Endacott

 

Having read through the insurance cover I had for the MRX I organise I cannot find anything that mentions barriers in front of exhibits............... Also checked their web site and it is not in the Summary of Cover either...........

Check it out for yourself...........http://www.modelrailwayinsurance.co.uk/docs/Cover-Summary-Exhibition.pdf

 

I have come across some really bad barriers at events that are pushed against layouts as the day moves on............... These cause more damage than any fingers touching the front and getting some green foliage on them...........

 

At one show I had a 'punter' picking the foliage off as they asked what it was made of......... I did say that I couldn't vouce for the stuff not being posionous and that they had better wash their hands before eating............. That stopped them......... And the foliage is easily replaced. As I have written elsewhere I do this hobby for fun....... I exhibit layouts for fun and quite frankly any damage can mostly be repaired..........  What really p***ed me off was having a loco stolen out of a fiddle yard on one layout.......... I hope the person who took it realised their mistake if they tried to use it on a 00 layout as it was one of my EM gauge locos.......... That was over ten years ago. NO ONE ever gets near to my fiddle yards anymore without being watched like a hawk...... And they are told the reason why. I ain't got a pretty face and my stare can let them know I ain't happy if they persist in hanging around the 'off scene area'.............

Edited June 20, 2016 by straxman

[Dagworth]

It would take a very brave and trusting man to exhibit a large layout with scratchbuilt OLE throughout without barriers or perspex screens. I am not that man and therefore you won't ever see Ravensclyffe without barriers. Besides, I often drive trains by walking around outside the layout following them with a handheld controller on a very long cable.

 

Barriers for me every time thanks

 

Andi

[straxman]

It would take a very brave and trusting man to exhibit a large layout with scratchbuilt OLE throughout without barriers or perspex screens. I am not that man and therefore you won't ever see Ravensclyffe without barriers. Besides, I often drive trains by walking around outside the layout following them with a handheld controller on a very long cable.

 

Barriers for me every time thanks

 

Andi

 

I do tend to be at the front of my layouts, either controlling them or interacting with people. To me its not a problem, I have had more damage done by loading and unloading (very minimal loss of flock and such) rather than by people. Its the barriers pushed by people that have done severe damage that causes me concern. The chap that tripped over a barrier upright could not stop himself and the barrier falling onto the layout, Now that did some real damage to the layout on the first day of a two day event and I felt really sorry for the chap as he could not stop saying sorry, I was more worried that he did actually hurt himself as he did need some first aid. As for the layout, luckily a trader had some 'flock and stuff' to disguise the damage on a tempory basis.

 

No I don't advocate that there should not be barriers or perspex for those that like or want them. This is purely my opinion and that is I don't like them and would like the opportunity not to have them. A layout is a more 'softer' landing for people who do accidentally trip over......... To me barriers can be a 'trip hazard' and danger to the viewing public and your layouts.

[Phil Parker]

Perhaps I'm in the minority here but I do not like barriers in front of my exhibits (I have 6 that currently 'do the rounds') and the photographer in me hates perspex even more. I find that most people can read the notices that ask them not to touch. The notices state: "Please, do not touch". When someone does touch, I ask them politely not to, and most of them apologise. Treat the public with respect and you will get it returned

 

You must be going to different shows than me then. Many people read "Do not touch" as "Do not touch unless you think you're some kind of expert in which case go ahead and fiddle with anything you like".

 

Polite reminders to keep fingers back are sometimes met with an apology, but just as often with a look that says, "I've paid to come in, I can do what I like."

 

Of course, I operate from the back, things may be different if you are walking back and forth at the front of the layout. I still refuse to consider the front 6 inches of the layout as expendable though.

[Reorte]

The notices state: "Please, do not touch". When someone does touch, I ask them politely not to, and most of them apologise. Treat the public with respect and you will get it returned, the obnoxious ones soon go away (I ain't a pretty looking guy).

I'd find it rather hard to have respect for someone who needs a notice to ask them not to touch layouts or stock, and even less for someone who needs asking despite the notice.

[straxman]

I'd find it rather hard to have respect for someone who needs a notice to ask them not to touch layouts or stock, and even less for someone who needs asking despite the notice.

I use polite words, like I have written, "Please, do not touch",  and its the second time that it may come across to them as more menacingly than the first, but I'm normally at the front anyway and have spoken to the 'punters' as soon as they get near to the layout. Perhaps, its this approach that stops them from touching in the first place.

 

We all get little 'Johnny' who thinks its fun to pull stuff off and this is met with an 'OUCH'........... that stops them in their tracks and when everybody looks at me I am seen rubbing my elbow as if I have just hit it on another part of the layout.

I have had the 'souviner' hunters who delight in picking off bits of the layout and for them I offer them a tube of glue and ask them if they want to stick it back in the place they would like to see it on the layout.......... Most just walk away........ Only one has stuck the tree back.

 

Like I have said I ain't the prettiest looking bloke, and would quite easily pass as a night club doorman you don't want to meet.

[arran]

HI All

 

Barriers are preferable  to a bit of scratched perspex any day.

 

Our club barriers look smart and a well built by me "A joiner" with slot in metal legs, they in my mind do the barrier job well on three accounts, making the viewing experience more enjoyable with some thing to lean on and keeping out the over enthusiastic kids who mean No harm really

 

Also if people are right up to the layout and you have get the front for some reason your not asking them to move 

 

Regards Arran 

Edited June 21, 2016 by arran

[Geoff Endacott]

Having read through the insurance cover I had for the MRX I organise I cannot find anything that mentions barriers in front of exhibits....

 

I asked. If children are allowed to stand on step-stools, rigid barriers are required. Otherwise, some sort of barrier to separate the public from the exhibits is still required.

 

Good luck when you try to put in a claim if there was nothing to separate the damaged layout from the public.

 

Geoff Endacott

[Giles]

Only a couple of times have I had my layout at an exhibition without barriers, and I found it most stressful. Yes - the vast majority of people weren't a problem - but it's (as always) the small minority who can't see something without wanting to touch, and the kiddies who have never been taught that you look with your eyes not your hands. Like others, I spend at least as much time, or more per square inch at the very front of the layout - as it's the most visible - and it's definitely not to be interfered with.

 

I won't exhibit without barriers, and likewise, I rather like barriers as a visitor.

[298]

Although I would broadly agree with concerns raised so far, for a day out I dragged my family members along to Quorn on Sunday and observing the Children's reactions (7 & nearly 3 from me and my Brother's who were 10, 4 & 2), they naturally want to touch things to feel textures- 10 yr old particularly liked the Greenscene static grass demo and taking photos, and really didn't understand why anyone who looked busy still had to be asked for permission to do so.

 

I have a simple answer to anyone aged 3 to 93 who touches- I make them operate. They either make their excuses and leave, or have a memorable time whilst lightening the drudgery of driving trains in front of the masses of silent critics or slack-jawed yokels (and just to clarify, it isn't a Superquik buildings and 1970's RTR layout either).

[Talltim]

How about some Network Rail 8 foot palisade fencing? Ideal for giving the feel of viewing the modern lineside, and for the more scenic layouts it does also come in green

[hicksan]

I like to put lots of high detail at the front of a layout. It helps in creating a sense of forced perspective because it draws the eye's focus away from the trains - you have to look through things or past things to see them (more like the real thing) - so you see the landscape first and then the railway. Cranes and ships with masts are good examples. This is only possible at exhibitions with decent barriers. It would take only one careless rucksack or over-bulky coat to rip the whole front of the layout off. I've seen that happen too.

 

That said, one of the advantages of a decent barrier is it allows some of the exhibitors to stand in front of the layout - in the space created - and talk (yes: actually talk to the public) about it - what it represents, how it works, how it was built. One thing I have learnt from exhibiting is people love to ask questions, but they don't like to disturb someone clearly concentrating and engrossed in operating the layout. Hence the question: front or back?

 

This maybe going slightly off-topic, but as it is an old thread no loss...

 

The public love to interact with the exhibitors and love it all the more in layouts where the operators - at least some of them - are in front of the layout rather than behind it. People like to see control panels, especially nicely made ones, and fiddle yards, especially the automated type, and they love to see what the operator is doing and talk about how things were made. I have observed fascinated crowds in front of front-operated fiddle yards and peering over the shoulder of back-to-the-public signalmen, especially when the panel has lights and bells.

 

All of which requires decent barriers to create an operating space in front of the layout. It can't be done with dowels on sprung door stops.

 

Of course there are limits to this; it won't be right in all cases or even in most. Small or thin layouts are close enough anyway, most times. It works with operators one-person deep but not more. So signalmen or train drivers but not both, clambering past each other. It works with some layouts (big end-to-end types) but not others (where the FY is at the back anyway, and where the best space for the operators is inside the central well) but as a principle I have seen this work, be very effective and clearly appreciated by the viewers. Thoughts?

 

Second question - thoughts on providing some barriers (eg at the most interesting part of the layout) with a raised platform along the outer side approximately at knee height (a) for smaller children to stand on to bring them up to head height with the layout and (b) to stop people leaning on the handrail quite so much. It might add strength to the barrier and would also stop families encouraging kids to duck under the barrier to stand in front of it - as if its purpose were to give the kids a clearer viewing space. Some exhibitions appear to provide plastic stools for families (and many families now bring their own) but I have found these quite intrusive, especially when people carefully place them in front of the barrier, up against the layout, rather than behind it "so the children have space to stand".

 

Finally - I considered winding Christmas fairy lights along the handrail of mine, like barbed wire. To stop people leaning on it. Has anyone tried this?

[Phil Parker]

1 hour ago, hicksan said:

thoughts on providing some barriers (eg at the most interesting part of the layout) with a raised platform along the outer side approximately at knee height (a) for smaller children to stand on to bring them up to head height with the layout and (b) to stop people leaning on the handrail quite so much.

 

Who is providing these? If it's the layout owner, fine, but if (as is normal) it's the club, moving them to the show is going to take a really big van, and demand quite some storage space in the clubroom.

 

1 hour ago, hicksan said:

Finally - I considered winding Christmas fairy lights along the handrail of mine, like barbed wire. To stop people leaning on it. Has anyone tried this?

 

Surely the point of the barrier is people lean on it? Not that lights will stop them.