Advice sought re LNER conflat wagon finishing

[micklner]

Can anyone assist re LMS Containers please?. Goggle search has produced very little information.

 

I have a couple of the Unit Models A Type LMS Containers that need something to run on .

 

So far the only suitable wagon I have found, is the Cambrian Plastic kit of a One Plank LMS Wagon. Would these be able to carry two of these Containers ?

 

Any other suggestions/photos  please ?

 

 

Thanks

[jwealleans]

I've just finished two, Mick.   I haven't put pictures up yet.  I put one on a Cambrian one-plank D1986 and the other on a Dave Geen LNWR one plank.

 

There isn't a kit for an LMS conflat as far as I know and the UNIT models containers are too wide for any open wagons.  I suspect they're a bit big.   Both the two I've done sit on the top of the side planks which is not by any means realistic.

[micklner]

3 hours ago, jwealleans said:

I've just finished two, Mick.   I haven't put pictures up yet.  I put one on a Cambrian one-plank D1986 and the other on a Dave Geen LNWR one plank.

 

There isn't a kit for an LMS conflat as far as I know and the UNIT models containers are too wide for any open wagons.  I suspect they're a bit big.   Both the two I've done sit on the top of the side planks which is not by any means realistic.

Thanks Jonathan, I look forward to the pictures. I presume they are held down by the same/similar shackle method , as the LNER method ?

 

I have managed to get four of the repainted to LNER Unit versions to fit onto the Parkside Conflat  S . They are just being finished at the moment.

[jwealleans]

2 minutes ago, micklner said:

I presume they are held down by the same/similar shackle method , as the LNER method

 

They aren't - most of the pictures in LMS Wagons show them roped, so that's what I did.  I'll try to get some pictures done this week.

[micklner]

14 minutes ago, jwealleans said:

 

They aren't - most of the pictures in LMS Wagons show them roped, so that's what I did.  I'll try to get some pictures done this week.

Thanks, good job I asked !!

[JeremyC]

From the Barrowmore MRG the BR instructions for loading and securing containers.

http://www.barrowmoremrg.co.uk/BRBDocuments/Booklet_BR20427_Issue.pdf

[jwealleans]

... for those modelling post 1948.

[BenL]

I'm interested in getting hold of Parkside LNER Conflat S or two to add a bit of variety on my GWR-themed layout. I'm afraid I don't have the Tatlow volume (4b) that covers the Conflats and wondered if anyone who does would be kind enough to post how many were built and what the running numbers allocated to them were (the Parkside kit is for diagram 104 I believe)?

 

Many thanks in advance for anyone who is able to help!

[jwealleans]

The kits will contain transfers and basic information.

[watfordtmc]

On 10/12/2021 at 17:34, BenL said:

I'm interested in getting hold of Parkside LNER Conflat S or two to add a bit of variety on my GWR-themed layout. I'm afraid I don't have the Tatlow volume (4b) that covers the Conflats and wondered if anyone who does would be kind enough to post how many were built and what the running numbers allocated to them were (the Parkside kit is for diagram 104 I believe)?

I don’t know if these details are important to you, but the Conflat S was not introduced until 1936 and the LNER’s DX open containers were not built until 1938.

Allowing for that a known combination suitable for the kit would be Conflat S 183533 and DX container 662.

 

Unfortunately there are not, so far as I’m aware, any suitable kits for other LNER pre-war containers, unless you want to ‘wing it’ with the Cambrian A type container.  This represents a post-war prototype (built by the LMS) but if you’re not too fussy about details a suitable combination of numbers would be Conflat S 183529 and A container 604.

 

One point to note is that before the Second World War, neither conflats nor containers were common user.  So LNER containers would only be carried on LNER conflats.  Quite what happened when there wasn’t a conflat available and the container was loaded into an open wagon is not a question I can answer!

 

Reference

LNER Wagons Volume 4b, Tatlow P, Wild Swan Books (Bath) 2015

 

Regards

TMc

14/12/2021

 

[micklner]

Some of mine.

 

 

 

 

 

[phil_sutters]

Would I be right in thinking that these containers were shipped across the Irish Sea and back?

 

 

[jwealleans]

Just to flesh out the last few posts:

 

Mick's models include some LNER meat containers and their dedicated conflats - these are available from Graeme King as resin casts from my masters.   I can supply a pdf for you to print your own transfers.   The A type containers are by Unit Models - they come as grey or bauxite LMS examples but you can repaint them.  the yellow lettering transfers are also mine, available from Precision Decals.  These containers are somewhat oversize.   Graeme King also offers a resin A type from a master built by Caroline Middleditch which is closer to scale.

 

1 hour ago, watfordtmc said:

Quite what happened when there wasn’t a conflat available and the container was loaded into an open wagon is not a question I can answer!

 

Just that - containers were craned into open wagons and roped into place.  Prewar the LNER did use Lowfits for containers, a practice BR then banned.   The LMS used their D1986 1 plank open, which Cambrian do a kit for, but any medium or high open could be used.    This is where the UNIT models container is shown up as oversize as it won't fit into an open wagon.

 

[jwealleans]

8 minutes ago, phil_sutters said:

Would I be right in thinking that these containers were shipped across the Irish Sea and back?

 

I have pictures of them being craned into ships and on wagons fairly well across Europe, so I'd have thought Ireland was a short trip out for them.

 

There's also record of LNER conflats as far east as Poland, so they went by train ferry as well as shipping.

[BenL]

On 10/12/2021 at 20:38, jwealleans said:

The kits will contain transfers and basic information.

Thanks for that. I was just interested in how many were built to get a sense of how many I could justify on my layout.

[BenL]

On 14/12/2021 at 07:32, watfordtmc said:

I don’t know if these details are important to you, but the Conflat S was not introduced until 1936 and the LNER’s DX open containers were not built until 1938.

Allowing for that a known combination suitable for the kit would be Conflat S 183533 and DX container 662.

 

Unfortunately there are not, so far as I’m aware, any suitable kits for other LNER pre-war containers, unless you want to ‘wing it’ with the Cambrian A type container.  This represents a post-war prototype (built by the LMS) but if you’re not too fussy about details a suitable combination of numbers would be Conflat S 183529 and A container 604.

 

One point to note is that before the Second World War, neither conflats nor containers were common user.  So LNER containers would only be carried on LNER conflats.  Quite what happened when there wasn’t a conflat available and the container was loaded into an open wagon is not a question I can answer!

 

Reference

LNER Wagons Volume 4b, Tatlow P, Wild Swan Books (Bath) 2015

 

Regards

TMc

14/12/2021

 

Thanks very much TMc, this is all very interesting and helpful. I’m modelling 1947 so I guess by then there could have been a bit of mixing in terms of one company’s containers on another’s wagons?

[watfordtmc]

On 14/12/2021 at 08:38, jwealleans said:

Just that - containers were craned into open wagons and roped into place.  Prewar the LNER did use Lowfits for containers, a practice BR then banned.  

 

Thanks Jonathon.  My throwaway comment at the end actually envisaged a different situation, but I didn’t express that clearly enough.  However, it’s not relevant to the post.

 

Some very nice modelling there from both you and @micklner.  I don’t think I’ve ever seen models of either a Conflat V or the flats the LNER built for their meat containers before.

 

On 15/12/2021 at 10:18, BenL said:

Thanks very much TMc, this is all very interesting and helpful. I’m modelling 1947 so I guess by then there could have been a bit of mixing in terms of one company’s containers on another’s wagons?

 

I would say so.  Neither of the two references I have makes mention of ordinary containers and conflats becoming part of the common user arrangements, just the insulated and ventilated meat containers and their conflats/chassis’.  But I can’t imagine anyone particularly cared by 1947, certainly not amongst the ground staff anyway.

 

For what it’s worth the only image I have seen of one company’s container on another’s ‘conflat’ is of an GWR FX insulated container loaded to an LMS conversion of a LNWR low side wagon – the sort that @jwealleans mentions above.  This was at the unarguably GWR location of Penzance.

 

Also, the only image I know of a D class container (actually a DX but photographed before the codes changed) loaded to a GWR conflat shows that it was roped to the conflat; the GWR didn’t use the shackles.

 

References

1. GWR Goods Wagons (3rd Ed), Atkins A, Beard W, Tourret R, Oxford Publishing Co (Hersham) 2013.  List of common user arrangements at page 523.
2. LNER Wagons Volume 4a, Tatlow P, Wild Swan Publications (Didcot) 2012.  List of common user arrangements at page 29.

Regards

TMc

17/12/2021

 

[micklner]

On 15/06/2016 at 16:02, jwealleans said:

LNER Red Oxide is redder than the LMS brown.  Have a look at a Bachmann LNER van, they're about right.

 

Oxford Blue with white lettering for the container, although in the early to mid 1930s they were also red oxide with yellow lettering.

 

Parkside give you most of what you need for the brakes.  If you haven't done LNER fitted gear before, it can be a bit baffling.  This one is done with Mainly Trains brass gear, but yours should be laid out exactly like this:

 

Jonathan

        I am awating arrival of some resin Conflat V's from Graeme King at the moment, and Buffers from Lanarkshire Models .

What make of parts have you used on the above  Conflat S for the W irons and the Springs/Axleboxes please?.

[jwealleans]

Evening Mick,

 

W irons are MJT and I think the springs/axleboxes are as well as are the vac hoses.

[micklner]

52 minutes ago, jwealleans said:

Evening Mick,

 

W irons are MJT and I think the springs/axleboxes are as well as are the vac hoses.

Good evening JW,

 

Many thanks a order will be sorted .

 

Mick