************* Presents?

[fulton]

Not sure where this thread is going? but as I said in a previous post I have had dealings over a number of years with Dakota and his parents, he has always been very open as to his exhibitions and their aims. As one of the organizers of the Chatham MRC Show, there are a number of other small shows in "our" area, we try to support them with layouts and have a good relationship with the organizers, these are excellent opportunities to promote our own exhibition, club and the hobby in general.

[cromptonnut]

So when the exhibition manager says he is from "Random Town MRC" we are to conclude what? That they have made that club up?

 

Presumably we should all rush to check the club out on-line, waterboard the manager etc. before accepting?

 

All I am saying, repeatedly, is that it's not unreasonable for the organiser of the show to be honest about who they are and not pretend to be something or someone else.

 

Maybe I'm odd but if in the past when I had an exhibition invitation, I always checked out the club.  Is this the sort of show - based on previous years - that my layout might be well accepted?  Are there pages of complaints about last year's show on a forum somewhere?  Were there just 100 people through the door last year and is this worth a 4 hour drive and giving up an entire weekend for?  Unless something is explicitly stated as a first show and therefore there's nothing to go by, I'd expect in this day and age to be a mention somewhere of the show even if it's not an all singing all dancing website but even a facebook presence is better than nothing and, of course, free.

 

If last year's publicity only gave "10 layouts" and no description of what was actually there, then I'd be a little suspicious.  But that's just me.  If I'm giving up my weekend to show off something I've invested many hundreds of hours and hundreds if not thousands of pounds on, I want to be sure that I'm going to enjoy the show, including seeing other layouts and perhaps finding a few bargains too, as well as enjoying entertaining a crowd.  All too often (and I've been an exhibitor as well as an exhibition manager myself in the past) we forget that shows aren't 100% (although mostly) about entertaining the visiting public.

[dasatcopthorne]

Maybe I'm odd but if in the past when I had an exhibition invitation, I always checked out the club. Is this the sort of show - based on previous years - that my layout might be well accepted? Are there pages of complaints about last year's show on a forum somewhere? Were there just 100 people through the door last year and is this worth a 4 hour drive and giving up an entire weekend for? Unless something is explicitly stated as a first show and therefore there's nothing to go by, I'd expect in this day and age to be a mention somewhere of the show even if it's not an all singing all dancing website but even a facebook presence is better than nothing and, of course, free.

 

If last year's publicity only gave "10 layouts" and no description of what was actually there, then I'd be a little suspicious. But that's just me. If I'm giving up my weekend to show off something I've invested many hundreds of hours and hundreds if not thousands of pounds on, I want to be sure that I'm going to enjoy the show, including seeing other layouts and perhaps finding a few bargains too, as well as enjoying entertaining a crowd. All too often (and I've been an exhibitor as well as an exhibition manager myself in the past) we forget that shows aren't 100% (although mostly) about entertaining the visiting public.

My sentiments entirely.

 

Dave

Edited June 26, 2016 by dasatcopthorne

[Kenton]

No need to waterboard anyone.

 

 

So when the exhibition manager says he is from "Random Town MRC" we are to conclude what? That they have made that club up?

 

 

I guess I'm stupid or something. But if I was asked to exhibit/demonstrate by someone I didn't already know (and even more so from a club I had never heard of) I would be asking lots of questions of the individual. Just the same as with any transaction. A similar and probably broader set of questions (a civilised form of interrogation) would ensue if the invite came from a club I had never heard of. I would also be asking a wider group of folk, I actually knew (rather than just simply a forum) for supporting judgements.

 

 

All I am saying, repeatedly, is that it's not unreasonable for the organiser of the show to be honest about who they are and not pretend to be something or someone else.

 

I know what you are asking, but you are also implying that this individual is being dishonest. I have seen nothing to that effect. If he is claiming to be a club then ask him how many members he has in that club and make your decision based on the answer. If he says he has 100 club members then perhaps make your views on his honesty based on that.

 

As I have already indicated I have no issue with him making a profit, no problem with his business behind the promotion as I see all club/society/hobby/venue/charity shows making profit. As far as I am concerned there is no difference in motive.

 

But the motivation of some on this topic seems to be to deny the public (that is me) from having a local show organised by an enthusiastic individual. A sort of ganging up by clubs and organisations to say they must be the only show in town.

[Phil Parker]

I'm obviously out of step - so it's a good job I don't exhibit on my own account any more.

 

When someone approaches me, I expect them to be basically honest. Apparently this is wrong and it should instead be the start of an investigative process where I question them and then spend a load of time researching the "club" to see if they are the sort of people I want to associate with.

 

As I say, glad I don't do that any more. I just don't have the time for that sort of thing.

[Geoff Endacott]

One thing which seems to have been overlooked is the fact that clubs and societies are often able to hire premises at a lower rate than commercial concerns. This in itself means that clarity is required as to whether or not an event is organised by a society and its volunteers or by a business.

 

Geoff Endacott

[Revolution Mike]

As I have already indicated I have no issue with him making a profit, no problem with his business behind the promotion as I see all club/society/hobby/venue/charity shows making profit. As far as I am concerned there is no difference in motive.

 

IIRC you are (or have been) an accountant or involved in financial matters so you must understand that what is done with said profits has a potentially large impact on the hobby as a whole. For example, a show makes £1000 profit which goes into someone's pocket vs a show which makes £1000 profit which goes towards subsidising building a new exhibition layout - the motive is different (as does honesty as Phil said).  That isn't to judge one as wrong, but it is only fair that people go into such things with their eyes open (whether exhibitor or punter).

[Kenton]

 

IIRC you are (or have been) an accountant or involved in financial matters so you must understand that what is done with said profits has a potentially large impact on the hobby as a whole. For example, a show makes £1000 profit which goes into someone's pocket vs a show which makes £1000 profit which goes towards subsidising building a new exhibition layout - the motive is different (as does honesty as Phil said). That isn't to judge one as wrong, but it is only fair that people go into such things with their eyes open (whether exhibitor or punter).

 

ex tax accountant (slight difference) but I'm not investigating how the business/charity/individual handles their tax affairs. The "profit" from the show simply goes out of my pocket in exchange for the entertainment. The value entertainment can vary but that is a personal judgement. From an exhibitor's POV I fully understand that one may wish to have nothing to do with a particular club/charity/business - that is very much a personal decision. I can think of a few in each category I would not have anything to do with. But I make that choice with eyes wide open and perfectly capable of asking any questions to gain answers for that choice.

 

The fact that the "profit" or any part of it goes to subsidising a minority group of modellers or to a business simply does not matter to me. This is even more true if the business is also providing a service to the modellers. I would argue that the existence of the profitable business eg. s/h model trains is providing far more to the well being of me and the modelling community that a club ever is. The visitor to these shows is very unlikely to join the club (and even more unlikely to benefit from input into their next funded layout) where as they may well buy their first train set from the trader.

 

As said I just do not like the tone suggesting dishonesty of an individual or that there is something intrinsically wrong with this individual. I really do not like the undercurrent that seems to imply that clubs are the only people who should organise, take part in and benefit from all shows.

[cromptonnut]

Just looking at UKModelshops to see what's on this weekend and there's one nearby in Lewes organised by the Mid Kent Model Railway Group featuring 'a second hand model railway trader' but no contact details.

 

A quick search for this group shows a 2014 exhibition in Maidstone for this group, same familiar promotor.

[pete_mcfarlane]

Mid-Kent? Has Lewes moved eastwards by about 40 miles?

[01.gellert]

A bit more investigation show these to be run by Gellert Dibben.

 

All the shows use the same mobile number and many give the name as Dekota Dibben.

 

Mystery solved.

 

Let's hope they have all the necessary things in place, such as Insurance and are VAT registered etc.

 

We've been here before, haven't we.

 

Dave

Hi Dave,

 

My name is Gellert Kiss organising the First Hersham Model Railway Exhibition.

 

Dakota Dibben is a business who is sponsoring this exhibition who buys and sells used model railway things.

 

 

I agree to your point to an extent. Hornby made a loss in February which means (in my eyes) that there are less and less people in the hobby. Therefore I believe that private people organising shows are adding to the model railway world. However, if it is on the same day as a club show near then I will agree.

 

But most importantly I think there has been some confusion so I think it has been a mix&match between people.

 

 

Kind regards,

Gellert Kiss

Edited July 3, 2016 by 01.gellert

[01.gellert]

I wonder if this has any connection with the Lewes Model Railway Exhibition run by the Mid Kent Model Railway Group...

 

...or the English Riviera Model Railway Exhibition run by the English Riviera Model Railway Club.

 

...or the Frinton-on-Sea Model Railway Exhibition run by Frinton-on-Sea Modellers.

 

...or Maidstone.

 

...or Lewes.

 

...or Deal.

 

...or Hersham.

 

...or the Isle of Purbeck.

 

...or Weybridge.

 

The hobby must be really thriving with all these new groups being started.

 

Geoff Endacott

Hi Geoff,

 

Again, Hersham is ran by me!

 

Gellert

[Andy Y]

My name is Dakota Dibben 

 

Kind regards,

Gellert Kiss

 

You're just confusing me now.

[01.gellert]

Also, two more things. 

 

Just checked the Oxted Presents and thats organised by Dakota Dibben and not by me. It has nothing to do with me what so ever.

 

 

Secondly, the First Hersham Train Exhibtion, some money will go to charity. The reason I haven't publicised that too much is because I don't know totally which charity but if you have any suggestions, please do drop me an email at info@hershamtrainexhibition.co.uk.

 

 

Regards

Gellert

[01.gellert]

You're just confusing me now.

Sorry, now changed! -Thinking and writing at the same time dont go together for me! Sorry

[nick_bastable]

       

[cromptonnut]

01.gellert, on 03 Jul 2016 - 18:44, said:

Secondly, the First Hersham Train Exhibtion, some money will go to charity. The reason I haven't publicised that too much is because I don't know totally which charity but if you have any suggestions, please do drop me an email at info@hershamtrainexhibition.co.uk

 

Shouldn't be difficult to choose one, plenty of good causes out there.

 

I'll start the ball rolling with a local one, Walton & Hersham Foodbank https://waltonhersham.foodbank.org.uk/

[01.gellert]

Shouldn't be difficult to choose one, plenty of good causes out there.

 

I'll start the ball rolling with a local one, Walton & Hersham Foodbank https://waltonhersham.foodbank.org.uk/

Yes, that's the problem, too many too chose from!

 

Okay, will have a think, it may be that I donate x amount to all the ones or put the names in a pot and choose that way.

 

 

Gellert

[cromptonnut]

Okay, will have a think, it may be that I donate x amount to all the ones or put the names in a pot and choose that way.

 

From my past experience of working for a charity for 17 years in their fundraising department, a donation of £50 to one charity will be more useful than 10 charities receiving £5 each.

 

Unless you're expecting thousands through the door of course, and then you can split it so several get a meaningful amount.

[01.gellert]

From my past experience of working for a charity for 17 years in their fundraising department, a donation of £50 to one charity will be more useful than 10 charities receiving £5 each.

 

Unless you're expecting thousands through the door of course, and then you can split it so several get a meaningful amount.

Hopefully there's going to be more profit than £50 but we will see!

[cromptonnut]

01.gellert, on 03 Jul 2016 - 19:24, said:

Hopefully there's going to be more profit than £50 but we will see!

 

Profit and donations to charity aren't necessarily the same thing.  But I just picked a random figure out of the air.

[01.gellert]

Yes, I know. I meant that I hope I can donate more because hopefully I will have more profit to donate more (does that make sense?).

 

 

Regards,

Gellert

[cromptonnut]

Might also be worth seeing what charities the church you're having the show at supports.

[01.gellert]

Might also be worth seeing what charities the church you're having the show at supports.

Thanks!!

[t-b-g]

There is no rule or regulation that I am aware of that prevents a private individual putting on a model railway exhibition as a means of earning themselves some money.

 

It is no more or less of an acceptable way to earn a living as many others.

 

What I do think is that if an exhibition is being arranged on this basis, then the organisers should be honest and up front about it. They shouldn't pretend that they are representing some model railway club that may not exist.

 

Many modellers are very happy to give up a large chunk of their time to help fund a model railway club or a preservation society. I have said it before on other threads but in my view, the exhibition diary is now about as full as it needs to be. There are not enough layouts and traders to fill more exhibition halls and keep things at a reasonable quality level.

 

My beef about shows being run by individuals or, for that matter businesses, is that modellers are expected to become, in effect, unpaid employees of that person/organisation for the weekend plus preparation and travelling time. We basically give up our time to help an individual or a business to line their pockets.

 

I don't mind doing it to help a non profit organisation like a club or a society but I feel more and more uncomfortable about doing it to boost the profits/income of an individual or a business.

 

As a visitor I will only ever attend a certain number of shows each year and a good many people I know are the same, so adding new shows to the diary means that we would choose between going to the old one or the new one but not both. So I am not sure that each new show that appears increases or improves the hobby. I reckon it just dilutes it and takes money away from the true "club" shows.

 

I do take a balanced view on such things and have reconciled that for things like the Warners shows, at least they are run in conjunction with various model railway clubs who do benefit but I am not their biggest fan.

 

Every week I get several clothes collection bags delivered, each one purporting to represent a charity. Each and every one is a business pretending to be a charity when you read the small print, donating a fraction of what they earn. I do hope that same sort of thing isn't coming into the world of model railways.