Ancient Crampton Well Tank Loco

[Caley Jim]

A relative of my wife's was working for a short time with a company who were involved in the restoration of the Great Eastern. Bristol University did a survey of the engines and reckoned that, with modern design, they could only improve the efficiency by around 5%.

 

Jim

Edited June 21, 2016 by Caley Jim

[bertiedog]

There are lots of ways of increasing efficiency, but they are in the main untested with the demise of steam, but some have been tried in 6 inch scale locos etc. PTFE valves, ceramic bores and pistons, ceramic lagging, gas flow design, and better valve events, but usually as the expense of complexity.

Designers in the 19th century were obsessed with piston speed limits, and speed, in the 20th with boiler pressure and blast arrangements, plus valve gear. The answer was to turn to electricity!

[Nearholmer]

Indeed, and the overall efficiency was pretty poor until steam turbines started to take over from reciprocating engines, and generating stations got large enough to serve a sufficiently wide area to permit them to be operated at decent load factors.

 

When I dragged efficiency into this, I also mentioned effectiveness, and I can't help but think that an engine intended for shunting is never going to be very effective while it has giant driving wheels (reducing tractive effort) and carrying wheels (snagging part of the adhesive weight).

 

It's the sort of drawing that should be over-stamped in red "Not a very good idea".

 

BTW, to me it looks like an LSWR M7 riding in two bath chairs.

 

K

[bertiedog]

Theres great doubt it was built, but it has all the hallmarks of Crampton, big wheels to keep piston speed low, no domes on boiler, external regulator, no coupling rods, and it is all balanced operation, two cylinders acting on one wheel, Really a twin engine, one double engine per driving axle. His engines never seemed to suffer lack of adhesion if the load was correct, and he designed for a specific task, no more.

All the Cramptons were well known for smooth operation, and ease of servicing parts, cylinders always outside and easy to get at, outside valve gear, outside regulator. Crampton designed several engines to be balanced, he claimed they ran better, no track damage, and were quieter in operation.

Stephen

Edited June 22, 2016 by bertiedog

[bertiedog]

The rough dimensions for the Crampton well tank locomotive, they seem to cross check, but assembly will show up any errors, and allow for adjustment as the job proceeds. The reference axle is the driver, so the frames can be levelled and the front axle adjusted to give the correctly level footplate. The front axle will pivot about it's centre to give a bit of compensation, so will have inside bearings, the outer fake fittings in bronze or brass. the bearing will be basically a tube, and the pivot will be on the front of the well tank, hidden under the boiler, and the smokebox,

 

The smokebox front can have a horizontal centre split, with hinges top and bottom, and a clasp lock at the centre,

 

 

The valve gear cross rod between the two sets of valve gear goes in front of the firebox. The valve gear is driven by a crank from the valve rod, down to level with the eccentric link middle. There is a mechanical water pump under the cylinder, I assume one side only, driven by the crosshead.

 

The well tank is filled by the brass capped stand pipe, I would assume fitted on both sides.

 

The cylinders are simple brass turnings with nickel silver bars and crosshead, valve gear nickel silver sheet, and turnings for the eccentrics. The cylinders will be secured to the well tank, which in turn will be supported by brackets between the inner and outer frames. The cylinders can be secured with 10ba screws from the well tank inside. The valve gear cross coupling rod can be attached in the same way to the tank back. This does not need to operate, purely to support the valve gear parts.

 

The footplate will have to be worked out once the outer cab is built, allowing for the inside walls of the splashers, the two bunkers, the round firebox, and the centre floor low enough to allow firing of the boiler.

 

As it is a 220 the driving wheels axle needs no side play, so the inner splashers can be really tight to the back of the wheels, which will help with it being 00 back to back, which makes all Crampton footplates very cramped indeed, unless done to P4/S4 standards.

 

If built for UK use I suspect a spectacle plate cab front would have been fitted, as were most locos at the time of the Great Exhibition.

 

The first thing to do is get a running chassis and the wheels have not arrived as yet, nor the worm gear set, but lots of items can be made to await the other bits. Also making a batch of straight brass wire for beading, plus half round beading, and making a mall rivet anvil to do the well tank rivets. Any frame rivets will have to be drilled and wire fitted, as the frames are 1.5 mm brass, to thick to strike rivet impressions in to it.

 

The dumb buffers can be made from tufnol or bakelite rod, on a metal base, then fitted to the buffer beams with 10ba studs. The steam pipe needs a carefully bit of bending, but easier as it can be solid brass rod. The boiler fittings can be from the scrapbox in brass or bronze.

 

Stephen.

Edited June 22, 2016 by bertiedog

[Nearholmer]

Continues to fascinate.

 

The buffers probably weren't strictly "dumb", more likely leather cushions/bellows, stuffed hard with horsehair, and with a wooden rubbing face, possibly covered with sheet-iron.

 

Also, just struck me that there is more than a bit of "Dolgoch" in its earliest form about this loco.

 

K

[Echo]

Those front splashers leave little room for a rocking axle. Counter-intuitively, I would be tempted to make the driving axle the compensated one.

[bertiedog]

Far easier to do the front axle, which will be 1mm undersize due to flanges, and only require about a millimetre or less movement.

 

The front splashers can be made a touch bigger to allow for the movement by rocking. There is no need for any side play at all. Making the rear axle rock would need a solid gearbox frame that would be locked to the motor, so the whole motor would have to pivot, introducing the risk of side movement and play.

 

Far better to keep it simple at the ear, it may have a gearbox frame, but locked solid to the motor and the frames.

 

The buffers in Tufnol / Bakelite do not need painting, just grooving the surface, and a coat of black, wiped off to colour the grooves, then varnished. The outer surface was indeed usually a steel plate, the interior was disks of leather stacked together, and covered with a further stitched leather outer.

 

Stephen.

[bertiedog]

The wheels have arrived by return of post from Scale Link, along with the 50:1 gear set in steel and brass, so moving on to make the gear box next.

 

Measuring the pitch between the shaft and the axle first, to be able to drill out holes for the bearings, then making a bed to take the motor, as it has no mounting holes. i can have a small strap over the motor to retain it in place, on a dab of rubber adhesive to stop any rattle or noise. I prefer a fully cased gearbox, not the etched open frames that are sold as gearboxes, they have too thin a brass, and no sealing up to keep any grease inside. The sides are 1.5mm brass and the case is 20 thou nickel silver, as it bends easily to shape.

 

Two bronze 1/8th flanged bearings are fitted in the gearbox side frames, flange inside, flush outside. The whole motor unit "floats" on the axle, which also goes through the actual frames, again fitted with a bronze flanged bush about 5 thou thick, on the outside. The whole width should come to 14.5mm less a small clearance.

 

Special crankpins have to be made with the support added to take the two eccentric sheaves. I will make the crankpin with a large flange to strengthen it. The wheels are pre drilled to take 10BA threaded studs. The throw is a bit shorter than the full piston stroke, but Crampton used excessively long strokes in his designs.

 

I have made the brass Cylinders, now the fiddly work of the crosshead and guide rods, the water pump, and the rest of the valve gear to cut out of nickel silver sheet.

 

The Cylinders require a steam chest on top, covered with bolts to secure down the cover plate. I will drill the pattern and fit wire in each hole, file them level at about 15 thou high, and fit Laser cut nuts from Vectorcut from the States. Although these are in fibre board, they are very good, and just need a thin coat of cellulose varnish to protect them before the painting proper. The size is about 24BA, very small, about 1.3 inches nut head, which is about scale size. The same nuts can be added to the end covers of the cylinders as well.

 

Stephen.

Edited June 22, 2016 by bertiedog

[bertiedog]

One other thing missing on the drawing are the exhaust pipes from the cylinders to the smokebox, they must travel inwards and then over the top of the well tank at each side of the boiler cladding, where the curve leaves space, turning towards the smokebox.

 

The prominent inlet pipes are shown, Crampton used large sizes to contain a lot of steam, as he used no domes on his boilers. The gas flow through his design was very good, far better than many more modern designs.

 

Stephen.

[bertiedog]

The motor, gears and wheels, which are all commendably accurate. The wheels are ABS spoked, so not Markits make. The gears are 50;1, and again are true and accurate, which makes a nice change for UK made model gears. Don't now of course how many spokes on the wheels, as none are in the drawing. I hope this did not mean they were solid hard wood centres!

 

 

They have the correct tooth form, with curved teeth to snugly fit the worm tooth form. In the past I used to struggle to find accurate gears for commissions etc., and was forced to cut my own gears to get accuracy. The one maker always wrong was Keyser in the K's kits, the gears were as inaccurate as the wheels were.

 

Mike Sharman, of Crampton models fame, used to do nice accurately hobbed high ratio gears, Ultrascale gears are nice, but delivery...? It seems modern Markits are nice as well.

 

I will run in the gears in a frame before fitting to the gearbox, with self destructive compound, which will bed them in tight, then when fitted ease off a smidgen to get working clearances.

 

 

The other shot shows the Vector-cut fibre board nuts and bolts head that they do in HO, which I will use for the steam chest and cylinder covers. They even supply spanners on the laser cut sheet!!

 

Stephen.

Edited June 22, 2016 by bertiedog

[bertiedog]

The chassis is now up and running in an unfinished form, with motor in place, but no body as yet, as it needs a bit of work to find out what to remove on the underside of the firebox to get it to fit. The overall speed seems correct with the 50:1 gears. It is only running with temp buffer beams, and a flying lead for power.

 

I will do the boiler next, and adjust the clearances to get assembly to the frames. The cylinders centre line comes out right for the outside connecting rod without any problems.

 

Next on the chassis are a lot of fiddly bits!...the crossheads and the valve gear for a start, then the boiler fittings, and water inlet pipes. It looks plain, but there are quite a few separate parts to make, and in polished brass as well, lacquered later on with Rustins clear cellulose lacquer. They will be polished with Brasso first. Most will have to be fitted in final place after the painting of the body and boiler, so will have to be screw fitted, or fitted on small screw studs.

 

The raised panel beading and boiler bands will have to be painted over and then sanded clean with very fine grit abrasive paper after the paint is hard to get the brass edging to a final polish. I use 1000 to 5000+ grit paper glued to lolly sticks to do the sanding accurately. the same sticks can be used with fine felt or fine cloth glue to them to do the polishing with brasso or a compound. It helps keep the compounds off the paint and the risk of marking the surfaces.

 

As the model has polished parts, the main paint will be in gloss green car cellulose, on red oxide primer, both oven baked baked to harden the paint. I am trying to minimise the use of low melt solder or superglue, to parts not going to be baked, which is done at about 120c, at which superglue fails, and the solder melts!

 

All painting will be done by spraying with airbrush. Any lettering will have to be from rubdown lettering, or hand painted. At least with gloss any lining will be easier with a bow pen, using artists acrylic paint. Final finish can then be cellulose gloss varnish over all the paintwork, followed with a polish with finest grade cutting compound.

 

Stephen.

[bertiedog]

A bit of alteration to do, now that the boiler is complete it does not quite go between the frames at the firebox, but as the frames are thick, a bit of filling of them should allow the firebox to drop down. The bottom inside is bored out upwards to give thin walls that can be filed easily to allow the nose of the motor and the gearbox through the firebox to the rear axle, always behind the firebox on a Crampton. The cab floor will cover the gearbox completely. The motor is mainly in the Well tank area, but a little bit og the boiler will be filed away to get it in, nothing that will show.

 

I have raised the bottom of the well tank about a millimetre to allow a copperclad board to be fitted to take wire pickups, insulated by heat shrink, to each wheel. The wires go through into the well tank and the motor contacts.

 

There is a possibility that the inner frames were cranked in a curve around the firebox to get around it easily, but nothing shows anything as a hint on the drawing.

 

Anybody got Mike Sharman's book, and could look this loco up, illustration 14 apparently.

 

Stephen

[bertiedog]

I have just received in the post a bag full of various Chinese motors, assorted types, and worth a re-think on the motor front, with a slightly larger motor, and with better bearings. The one I had picked was OK, but the bearings were a bit slack, just a tiny amount. The new ones are tighter, and a bit better finished, so I will try both out very carefully, to get the best running combination with the gearset. The new one is also 5 pole, with stronger magnets as well. No brand name marked as usual with Chinese motors.

 

Stephen

[EddieB]

 

Anybody got Mike Sharman's book, and could look this loco up, illustration 14 apparently.

 

 

Just seen this thread, and I'm able to look up the illustration in Mike Sharman's book.  (Incidentally, the first copy of the book was bought for a Polish friend/contact, as an exchange for a book he was sending me on the Sand Railways of his native land - I was fascinated by the Crampton book and "needed" a copy for myself, but I digress).

 

The caption in the book baldy states "Figure 14 shows the patent (my emphasis) for a tank engine, it puts all the 'reducing' tank weight over the driving wheels but oddly enough, the Egyptian tank engine [book references omitted] does not have this feature."  The illustration is found in Chapter 1 of Sharman's book, which describes and discusses the proposals and patent applications of Thomas Crampton - so perhaps not a real locomotive.

 

There are certainly similarities - but Sharman gets a little lost when it comes to describing the "Egyptian tank engine" in chapter 6 of his book.  He does however quote a Robert Stephenson builder's number of 1644, and running number of 137, and suggests it was probably used to pull an inspection saloon.  RS builder's lists are something of a minefield, but two both give a b/n of 1645 (of 1865), for a 2-2-0T with 4'6" driving wheels and 6" x 10" cylinders, one annotated as "Rouse's Steam Carriage".  

 

According to Hugh Hughes in "Middle East Railways", the early Egyptian Government Railways had two similar locos, classed as 2-2-4WTs and both built by RS.  One described as pulling the Pasha's inspection saloon is now preserved in a museum in Cairo: http://sawyertravel.blogspot.co.uk/2015/03/the-cairo-railroad-museum.html.  I haven't been able to prove definitively, but that locomotive does seem to be RS b/n 1295 of 1862, where it is listed as a "rail carriage".  If the postcard were accurate, the preserved loco has inside cylinders, and wouldn't fit Crampton's patent.  However, RS 1295 was built with outside cylinders.  (From what I understand, the preserved locomotive is hemmed in within the museum, so that even were photography permitted, it would be quite difficult).

 

Still, there may be enough clues in the foregoing to find further information - Grace's Guide, perhaps?

 

Regarding "Ariel's Girdle", I'm thinking towards a (late) Canon Bayes(?) article that appeared very recently in the Great Eastern Railway Society's Journal.  I think my copy is somewhere in the room where my kids are currently sleeping (I refuse to believe I'm the only contributor to this site with access to reference material to look this up!!!)

[EddieB]

As a footnote to the previous message, a photo of the Egyptian inspection contraption appears in "A Century of Locomotive Building 1823-1923" (a history of Robert Stephenson & Co., reprinted by D&C in the 1970s).  There is a note about the livery - which was highly ornate (understatement).  I believe this to be the same locomotive as the one preserved in Cairo (i.e. the one built in 1862).  However (unlike the 1865 product) it is not a Crampton and worthy of discussion - but outside this thread.  (The photo is of the opposite side to that depicted in the postcard from the site linked previously, and clearly shows an outside cylinder arrangement.  I think the postcard is incorrect, but could it be that the loco had only one outside cylinder?  I half remember reading about something similar - but not sure how it would actuate).

 

Likewise "Ariel's Girdle" and "Enfield" and other experimental light locomotives and railcars - interesting certainly, but not Cramptons.  (The GERS Journal is October 2015 and the article previously referred to is a transcript of a talk by Canon Bayes, illustrated with line drawings by WT Buckle, some excellently redrawn by the society's loco co-ordinator). For the record, the ECR did acquire five 2-4-0s of the Crampton type, but they were unsuited to the company's requirements and short-lived.

 

Coming back to the "other" Egyptian loco of 1865, which appears to have been a Crampton 2-2-0WT similar to the patent application drawing.  There were, apparently, a series of articles by EH Ahrons (no less) in "Locomotive Magazine" starting in 1903, covering the early locomotives of Egyptian Railways (Ahrons having previously visited Egypt).  I don't have access to copies (and it looks like I'm going to be unable to visit the SLS library in the near future, as hoped) so cannot say whether there is any specific description of this locomotive.

[bertiedog]

Thanks for the references, very interesting, this one is fully in line with all of the Crampton Patents and ideas. The Egyptian connection is possible, I have seen other elaborate designs for such tanks in various books.

The Egyptian 220 and 420 locos are Stephenson long boiler locomotives, often mistaken for Cramptons, but they have the firebox behind the axle, and broke no patents.

[EddieB]

Just to compound the complexity, it appears that there were three single-driver tank locomotives constructed by Robert Stephenson & Co in the 1850s and 1860s.  

 

RS 1181/1859 was Egyptian Government Railways no. 40, and had 5'0" driving wheels and 8"x14" cylinders.  Total wheelbase (including carriage) was 22'3".

 

 

RS 1295/1862 was EGR no. 63, and was the Khedive's private inspection saloon - the one I believe is preserved in Cairo.  Driving wheels were 5'0" and cylinders 9"x14".

 

 

(This illustration was incorrectly associated with the description of RS 1181 when it appeared in "Locomotive Magazine" 15th August 1903).

 

Neither of these locomotives follow Crampton's patents, so aren't strictly relevant to the topic of this thread.

 

As mentioned previously, there are descriptions in a series articles by Ahrons that appeared in "Locomotive Magazine" from 1903 until 1905.  Unfortunately, it appears that Ahrons omits coverage of the third locomotive, RS 1645/1865 - which is the possible Crampton well tank that is the subject of this thread.  Most of what we know about the locomotive stock of the early railways of Egypt comes from Ahrons and indeed I now have a copy of a hand-written list he prepared which includes an entry for this locomotive (EGR no. 137), where the list is annotated to show that the loco was sold in 1872 to Daira Sanish (??? - I can't decipher his script).  But here the trail seems to go cold.

 

A couple of lllustrations in the recent "Early Mainline Railways" piqued my interest - one being a reproduction of Said Pasha's saloon (as above), the other being at atmospheric shot of the other 2-2-4WT at Stephenson's works.  Sadly, what is really wanted - a photo of the 2-2-0WT Crampton (RS 1645/1865) - is proving very elusive.

 

[Guy Rixon]

The loco is possibly an LCDR "Sondes" class. They had a few Crampton well tanks from the beginning of the line, when it was still called the East Kent railway. The exposed valve gear matches the description - the Sondes class had Gooch gear.

 

The original Sondes class was unsuccessful but too embarrassing to discard. Martley eventually rebuilt them as conventional 2-4-0T, called the "second Sondes" class.

[Echo]

The LCDR Sondes class was a 4-4-0T, designed by Crampton, but not a Crampton in the technical sense. The RCTS LC&DR loco book has a side elevation,

[Penlan]

In Ahrons 'The British Steam Locomotive from 1825 - 1925', pages 70 - 73, there are 3 side views only and 1 of side and back (firebox) view of Crompton patent loco's..

Sides are LNWR's  4-2-2*-0, 'Liverpool',  2-2-2*-0 'Courier'  and a Midland Rly 2-2-2*-0.

The Side and end view is of 2-2-2*-0 'Namur' for the Namur & Liege Rly.
These would all appear to require a tender.

2*. = Driving wheel.

 

These drawings and text are, I believe, originally from 'The Engineer' magazine. 

My copy is the 1987  reprint by Bracken Books. (ISBN 1 85170 103 6)

[Penlan]

This is the rear view of the 'Namur' Loco - 1846. 

 

 

and the side is:

 

 

 

 

Edited July 24, 2016 by Penlan

[bertiedog]

I have Ahrons books, it is the tank engine that at present defies identification. Yes, not the Sondes classes. Crampton was the LCDR resident engineer though, and may have used the design there. It does resemble other LBSCR and other companies locos in the arrangement of the rear and the 'cab' entry, but where are the spectacle plates?

 

I was not aware of Crampton using Gooch gear as he had not got the problem Gooch had of the gear being under the boiler, where Howe/Stephenson valve gear made things very tight. Gooch's changes made it lower, as the links do not move on reversal, only the rods.

Crampton favoured Stephenson gear as he had it outside with plenty of space, especially on French lines with larger loading gauge.

 

Stephen.

[Echo]

The Sondes class was built for the East Kent Railway, which didn't start operations until the late 1850s. The locos listed in the RCTS book don't include any 2-2-0s. To be honest, your 2-2-0T looks way too early to have been built for the EKR/LCDR.

[Simon Moore]

Excellent choice to scratch build. I've often fancied doing the north eastern railway crampton that was used for the directors saloon.